Where do I ask a legal question?

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I think before any of us worry about get sued, we first have to worry about being heard. :eek:

This is all a big non-issue.

True !
I wasn't worrying about getting sued (I have nothing worth taking in lieu of payment !), it was more an aesthetic question. I'm curious as to the range of opinion on it.
Actually, for a hobbyist to be sued for plagiarism would almost be flattery ! :D
 
True !
I wasn't worrying about getting sued (I have nothing worth taking in lieu of payment !), it was more an aesthetic question. I'm curious as to the range of opinion on it.
Actually, for a hobbyist to be sued for plagiarism would almost be flattery ! :D

Hehe....I wasn't directing that at you, Grim. Just generally speaking.:cool:

I've recorded a bunch of covers that I didn't get permission for. I'd LOVE it if anything I did became important enough to actually get me in trouble. :D
 
Hehe....I wasn't directing that at you, Grim. Just generally speaking.:cool:

I've recorded a bunch of covers that I didn't get permission for. I'd LOVE it if anything I did became important enough to actually get me in trouble. :D

It's not that I mind getting sued. There are a few factors of concern (in no order of priority):

  • Investing a bunch of emotion, time, effort and money in something and then having to desist. Plus, unfortunately I'm the "type" to get emotionally disappointed when my creativity is oppressed.
  • Ethics: I genuinely don't want to rip someone off. I want to respect other people's work. But I also want the freedom to innovate. I don't want to cross the line of having a solid defense.
  • My music crossing lawyer's desks' is very possible. I'm not a pop star that you've ever heard of but my foots' been in the door for awhile.
 
Don't mind him ! He's a heavy rockin' priest from the temples of Syrinx. His great computers fill the hallowed halls.....

On the contrary, I value his input. Everyone is entertained by different things. It's totally subjective. I happen to disagree but he totally had a right to own his opinion like everyone else. In fact, I bet I can learn a lot from him.

My dad pretty much hates rap and he's a profound musician and fierce business mind. He supports me 100% but would easily use my CD to flip a cheeseburger without a second thought.
 
Hehe....I wasn't directing that at you, Grim. Just generally speaking.:cool:

I've recorded a bunch of covers that I didn't get permission for. I'd LOVE it if anything I did became important enough to actually get me in trouble. :D
Yeah, I know. But your point was nonetheless true and I must admit, it made me laugh. It reminds me of when my sisters and brother and I were kids and the question came up of what we'd do with millions of pounds if we won the pools. Well, us, being us {the argumentative types !} we began suggesting things then it became a full scale argument about who would spend what and who wouldn't know how to spend what and what a stupid suggestion that was and before you know it we were almost at blows ! Then my Mum walked in and reminded us that we first had to actually win the pools........:D {Which reminds me, I liked your version of "Let me roll it". I had it years ago on the B side of "Jet" and I hated it. I thought it was so lame and I didn't realize yours was a cover till a few weeks ago as I'd forgotten what Macca's one was like. I sometimes do deliveries on the square that MPL productions is on. I should blare it on the stereo next time I'm there !}

On the contrary, I value his input. Everyone is entertained by different things. It's totally subjective. I happen to disagree but he totally had a right to own his opinion like everyone else. In fact, I bet I can learn a lot from him.

My dad pretty much hates rap and he's a profound musician and fierce business mind. He supports me 100% but would easily use my CD to flip a cheeseburger without a second thought.
It was my oblique way of saying I find him really funny at times. Actually, I'm not sure how much is intentional but there are some really funny people on HR. Maybe it's just my sense of humour {such as it is} but I often find myself laughing at some of the posts, even the ones that maybe aren't meant to be funny.
 
How many songs use standard rock and roll or common blues chord changes? How can someone claim something like that beats me. But what it sounds like your describing is like "sampling" except you're playing it out in a transformation way: similar to how say Kanye West would sample a record and slow it down, loop it and use it as another part? I think he needs a license to do that so you probably might too if you did that. But still, I can't tell you where theft ends and where new begins. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

That's just it LLB...just about every chord structure and melody line that can be made has been made and what it comes down to is the lyrics of the songs that are original.
I think Black Eyed Peas are pretty much on that path with hit after hit of rehashed older hits from the past being incorporated into the stuff that they are now putting out ....IMHO





:cool:
 
Then RAMI............ off to the cave then for all of your illegal questions. Everyone there will know the answers, kind of like the wizard in OZ






:cool:
 
Two words* GT - Men At Work's "The Land Downunder" & kiddy sing-a-long tune "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree"

The fluterer in MAW deliberately lifted (as a sort of homage) the melody of KSITOGT (it's the second bar of the flute riff, sped up) and, 25 or so years later, got sued majorly by the copyright holder of KSITOGT - who has nothing to do with the person who wrote it... and lost, badly... now have to pay back royalties...

So yes, considered stealing... :drunk:

Though, for perspective, consider another traditional Australian song, "Waltzing Mathilda," their unofficial national anthem (or is it official now?). Tom Waits' spectacular "Tom Troubert's Blues (Four Sheets to the Wind in Amsterdam)" lifts the chords and the chorus, but has verses he wrote. To the best of my knowledge he's never been sued for it. I wonder if maybe if it's clearly an intentional reference, rather than using the melody more or less uncredited, that gave him some more leeway?
 
... I've recorded a bunch of covers that I didn't get permission for. I'd LOVE it if anything I did became important enough to actually get me in trouble. :D

Exactly! The best thing that could happen would be if they sued your fuckin' ass off. You'd be on CNN and probably get several million dollars worth of free promo. Bring it on!

This whole "worrying about legal thing" is so old. It's from maybe 1969 or 1973 at the latest. It doesn't happen anymore people! It's in the land of worrying you're going to get a razor blade in an apple at Halloween.

If your song is a big hit, then work out the details. At that point it will mean something because there's money involved. Until there's money involved (I mean tens of thousands at least) it's a non-issue.
 
That's just it LLB...just about every . . . melody line that can be made has been made

That's not true. Even if we surmise that a popular melody must stay within two octaves (ascending and descending intervals being treated as creating different melodies) and a diatonic scale with only two accidentals allowed, and be no longer than four measures with six notes per measure (on average), that yields about 5 * 10^30 possible melodies.
 
Though, for perspective, consider another traditional Australian song, "Waltzing Mathilda," their unofficial national anthem (or is it official now?). Tom Waits' spectacular "Tom Troubert's Blues (Four Sheets to the Wind in Amsterdam)" lifts the chords and the chorus, but has verses he wrote. To the best of my knowledge he's never been sued for it. I wonder if maybe if it's clearly an intentional reference, rather than using the melody more or less uncredited, that gave him some more leeway?

If it's truly a traditional song, it is out of copyright.
 
Where is the line drawn? What's protected by the movie authors and what's fair game?

Also-- is there a forum for this kind of question?

What is protected is not as easily determined as it might seem. But limiting discussion of 'protected' to copyright only (as has been pointed out commercial product can have other forms of actionable 'protection'). A performance is automatically copyright(ed). This covers any mechanical reproduction of that performance. An audio recording of the performance, a video recording of performance, used outside of fair use restrictions are fairly obvious violations. Though what is or is not 'fair use' is still an open can of worms and subject to significant legal debate. The question gets a little muddier when you are dealing with a 'digital' transcription that in its native or binary state bears little or no resemblance to original. A MIDI transcription (audio2MIDI) of a performance seems to fall on the side of copyright violation, while taking the same type of data, a digitized audio performance, opening it in a graphic editing app, printing and selling the result is a little less clear cut (concerning copyright infringement). Second type of copyright, not necessarily automatic, are the mechanical foundations for the performance. Words of the text; some form of notation substantiating some form of musical element (does not have to be melody), from which the performance can be reproduces; choreographic notation; etc. There are legal debates concerning whether a specific staging of a theatrical production can be protected with copyright. Essentially, while not limited to, anything that can be commercially published can be protected via copyright.

The changes that digital processes have brought to distribution have so far only added confusion and chaos to the legal arguments surrounding 'intellectual property'. But a simple rule of thumb is that if something that you think of as yours makes money, somebody, somewhere is going to be examining it to see if you owe them some form of compensation. In the scenario OP describes I do feel they are relatively safe copyright infringement action. In terms of things like 'brand dilution' perhaps not so much. But even here it largely depends on whether item comes to someones attention and how much revenue item in question might generate. But even in cases where revenue from offending item is quite small it is not uncommon for a challenging entity to try to force a 'cease & desist', if only to further protect what they perceive as their protectable rights.

Neither questions, nor responses, regarding copyright are necessarily simple or easy. While forums devoted to various legal issues exist, a site devoted to copyright issues, I'd be even more leery of advice on those sites then ones dedicated to which mic to use or interface to buy. Unfortunately to address copyright issues you need to talk to a lawyer, someone bound to you by contract, that you can sue when their advice turns out to be shit.

To summarize: accepting OP's description @ face value there does not appear to be any 'mechanical' connection between inspiration & OP's product that is protected via copyright. While I'd have no problem ignoring any infringement possibility if I had composed, recorded the work, to get a slightly more dependable opinion one has to confer with a lawyer, with copyright experience.
 
that yields about 5 * 10^30 possible melodies.

But the melodies have to be "musical" and that severely limits how many there are. And it is also very subjective. I've always figured there are about 1 million listenable melodies and clearly more songs than that. So, some melodies are going to sound similar to others. Lyrics and arrangment will set them apart.
 
:laughings::laughings: Hey guitaristic ....leadlungbetty is a girl. :laughings::laughings:


Just thought Id point that out.

Yeah, I saw where she said she was a girl (another forum, I think) after I posted that.
My deepest apologies, LLB. :) You are not alone. I've called my own mother "Dude" before :D

I think before any of us worry about get sued, we first have to worry about being heard. :eek:

This is all a big non-issue.

Haha my thoughts exactly!
 
Rami- what in your definition is being heard?

I feel I am very heard. I'm just not very rich. :(
 
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