Where do I ask a legal question?

[leadlungbetty]

Is a song inspired by a movie copyright infringement? Would it be considered a derivative work?

Let's say I watch THE MATRIX and I am inspired to create a song.

The music and vocals do not copy or quote anything from the movie.

The instrumentation is within a similar genre, mix-quality, instrument selection but a totally new composition that doesn't borrow from the movie.

The lyrics don't quote the movie or make mention to any names, titles or landmarks in the movie but have a similar theme or storyline: for instance, post-apocalyptic machine takeover & awakening from the false reality, etc.

The title of the song does not mention the movie but is thematic: e.g. THE MACHINE

Where is the line drawn? What's protected by the movie authors and what's fair game?

Also-- is there a forum for this kind of question?

 

[squibble94]

That's absolutely 100% your idea. It is inspiration, not stealing. There's a pretty big safe zone when it comes to that.

 

[leadlungbetty]

When I think about it, if I put the finished product next to the movie, it wouldn't be enough to say the song was based on it. But I'm then wondering, if I MADE MENTION that the song was inspired by watching the movie, does that change things?

For instance, if once I told someone it was inspired by the Matrix, they'd certainly make the *mental connection* or association.

What if I wanted to make a whole 10 track album inspired by the movie? Would that be questionable legality wise?

At what point does my "inspired by" become "based on"?

And could anyone suggest any good articles on creating music inspired by other media, or based on, etc. Where I can learn what I can and cannot do.

 

[dodgeaspen]

It's yours. If you see something and are inspired to make a song on your inspirations and make no mention about the movie in the song, I would think it's yours.

 

[Chili]

Is a song inspired by a movie copyright infringement? Would it be considered a derivative work?

Let's say I watch THE MATRIX and I am inspired to create a song.

The music and vocals do not copy or quote anything from the movie.

The instrumentation is within a similar genre, mix-quality, instrument selection but a totally new composition that doesn't borrow from the movie.

The lyrics don't quote the movie or make mention to any names, titles or landmarks in the movie but have a similar theme or storyline: for instance, post-apocalyptic machine takeover & awakening from the false reality, etc.

The title of the song does not mention the movie but is thematic: e.g. THE MACHINE

Where is the line drawn? What's protected by the movie authors and what's fair game?

Also-- is there a forum for this kind of question?

Ya know, the US Copyright office addresses this very subject. I don't remember their take on it, but I think it's okay to quote lines, etc... You can't copyright a title or story or ideas, so no problem there.

Check it out:

www.copyright.gov

Check out the circulars, they go into details about stuff like this. If you live in another country, most times the same copyright laws are adopted or recognized.

I think this is a good fourm for this discussion.

peace,

 

[guitaristic]

Is a song inspired by a movie copyright infringement? Would it be considered a derivative work?

Let's say I watch THE MATRIX and I am inspired to create a song.

The music and vocals do not copy or quote anything from the movie.

The instrumentation is within a similar genre, mix-quality, instrument selection but a totally new composition that doesn't borrow from the movie.

The lyrics don't quote the movie or make mention to any names, titles or landmarks in the movie but have a similar theme or storyline: for instance, post-apocalyptic machine takeover & awakening from the false reality, etc.

The title of the song does not mention the movie but is thematic: e.g. THE MACHINE

Where is the line drawn? What's protected by the movie authors and what's fair game?

Also-- is there a forum for this kind of question?

Dude, go for it! Inspiration is free

If you want some feedback on the song, you could post it in the mp3 clinic!

 

[PDP]

From what I was taught there are two major types of Copywrite. One is the actual recording or video. An artist or producer can copywrite the actual product, so if someone say lifts a section of their actual recording/product to use as for instance, as samples or a background, that would be copywrite infringment. The other is the melody in relation to chords. Seven consecutive melody notes (during the same chords, I believe) is also considered copywrite infrigment. George Harrison was sued for "My Sweet Lord" and lost because another song had the same melody first. Anyway as stated, inspiration is completely yours.

 

[leadlungbetty]

So do you think when Jay-Z did that rap album American Gangster, was that inspired by or based on? I am going to go read all the circulars now. It seems everything I read so far has explained that when it is "based on" another work, it's derivative. But what I care to understand more is what is the difference between something being based on another work and inspired by another work. Generally speaking, I know when my heart is inspired and I make a work vs when I am intentionally trying to make a spin off work. But to outside interpretation, I'm sure the two can look awfully similar.

 

[miroslav]

It's a little different with some media types....like if someone did a new movie based on another movie…or based on a written book.

Music really can't copy from a book or a visual...it can only be inspired...unless maybe somewhere in the movie or book there was some specific references to specific types of music passages, etc.

You're fine...there is NO copyright infringement if you come up with a music theme after seeing a particular movie or reading a particular book.
Music ideas are interpretive and subjective by their nature, and can only potentially steal from other music…but not from non-music/non-sound media.

But I'm curious...is it really important for you to point out that your music was inspired by the Matrix movie?
See...if you do that, and reference the name "Matrix"...that could be trademark infringement, since you are using their product to "prop" your music with....but they can make NO legal claim to the music itself.
Now, if you had lyrics also referencing the Matrix and the underlying story, that also might be might be some form of infringement.
But if there are none...why even bother telling everyone where your inspiration came from...?

 

[guitaristic]

So do you think when Jay-Z did that rap album American Gangster, was that inspired by or based on? I am going to go read all the circulars now. It seems everything I read so far has explained that when it is "based on" another work, it's derivative. But what I care to understand more is what is the difference between something being based on another work and inspired by another work. Generally speaking, I know when my heart is inspired and I make a work vs when I am intentionally trying to make a spin off work. But to outside interpretation, I'm sure the two can look awfully similar.

Yeah, well either way, he's Jay-Z...he's got quite a chunk of cash by now, so I don't doubt that he paid some money (even just for the title). As for you, I still think you're safe!

I'd say:

"Based on" = same chord progression/melody/tempo/plot (not all of those at once, but probably 2 or 3 at the same time)

Since the only thing similar between the Matrix and your song is involvement of a post-apocalyptic machine uprising (an idea commonly thrown around in movies and books...and Flight of the Conchords songs ) I'd say you are VERY safe. Go for it!

 

[guitaristic]

But I'm curious...is it really important for you to point out that your music was inspired by the Matrix movie?
See...if you do that, and reference the name "Matrix"...that could be trademark infringement, since you are using their product to "prop" your music with....but they can make NO legal claim to the music itself.
Now, if you had lyrics also referencing the Matrix and the underlying story, that also might be might be some form of infringement.
But if there are none...why even bother telling everyone where your inspiration came from...?

Yeah, I wouldn't mention it either. If you did (and someone noticed) they might think you were trying to use Matrix as a sort of crutch to promote your music, even though you aren't.

 

[ocnor]

So do you think when Jay-Z did that rap album American Gangster, was that inspired by or based on?

The original question was about "MUSIC". So Jay-Z and rap have no correlation what so ever.

 

[Chili]

So do you think when Jay-Z did that rap album American Gangster, was that inspired by or based on? I am going to go read all the circulars now. It seems everything I read so far has explained that when it is "based on" another work, it's derivative...

I don't think that is what a derivative work is. To be derivative means you have to start out with someone else's material; in this case, a song. I think the copyright office uses the term "New Version" to better explain the definition of derivative.

After I last posted here, I thought about trademark infringements and glad Miroslav brought it up. There might be a problem there, but only if you use registered trademarks, like The Matrix (maybe it's registered, IDK) or character names or something like that.

Still, no one is going to care unless you make a lot of money from it and it comes up on their lawyer's radar.

peace,

 

[moresound]

Dude, go for it! Inspiration is free

If you want some feedback on the song, you could post it in the mp3 clinic!

Hey guitaristic ....leadlungbetty is a girl.


Just thought Id point that out.


You do have to be a little cautious LLB, just look at what they did to Sir George Harrison.

 

[grimtraveller]

Hark, the witty steal.....

This throws up an interesting side issue that I've been thinking about for a while. Say you are improvising a solo within an original piece of music and you happen to throw in, in an amusing way perhaps, a snatch from a piece of music that's well known. Is that considered stealing ? It's not like you've just copied the song. Or say, taking the chord structure of another piece but constructing something completely melodically new within it so there's no way you could tell what the original was. Or even, say, taking a section of an existing solo of a song, completely slowing it, changing the time signature and making the result your bass part, over which you then construct something totally original and new. Where does plagiarism and theft end and the "basis for something new" begin ? Is the line that easy to draw ? Is it that straightforward ?

 

[moresound]

That's a good question Grim I would say it's "artistic liberty".

 

[Armistice]

This throws up an interesting side issue that I've been thinking about for a while. Say you are improvising a solo within an original piece of music and you happen to throw in, in an amusing way perhaps, a snatch from a piece of music that's well known. Is that considered stealing ? ?

Two words* GT - Men At Work's "The Land Downunder" & kiddy sing-a-long tune "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree"

The fluterer in MAW deliberately lifted (as a sort of homage) the melody of KSITOGT (it's the second bar of the flute riff, sped up) and, 25 or so years later, got sued majorly by the copyright holder of KSITOGT - who has nothing to do with the person who wrote it... and lost, badly... now have to pay back royalties...

So yes, considered stealing...

And LLB - please reconsider The Matrix as inspiration... a nice choon based on Driving Miss Daisy is what the world really needs right now...

* - two - or any number, means exactly what I want it to mean

 

[leadlungbetty]

@miroslav
why even bother telling everyone where your inspiration came from...
It's a common question asked by bloggers that follow and write about my work

@guitaristic
they might think you were trying to use Matrix as a sort of crutch to promote your music
Not suggesting that's my intention, but what if it were? There is the obvious factor that such a song may appeal to that fancom. Is it ethically wrong to write with a specific market in mind as well?

@ocnor
Although I write and compose in QUITE a variety of genres, can sing, play piano, not only do I find rap "music" but I rap
So unfortunately I can't find the humor in your opinion but I appreciate your feedback

@Chili
Trademarks I guess that's another ball of wax eh? blah... sticky.

@moresound
Thank you. If I were a dude named Betty I might have to address that with my parents.

@grim
The first half of your question I see happen all the time in mainstream music but I think when an artist is on a major label they have cleared access to most of the catalog to sort of snippet from to make hooks or even cover. Someone I know on a major label told me that after I asked about a song they did which took a section from Ring My Bell for a break.

As far as the second half of your question, I wonder the same thing. I'm not a classically trained pianist but from my experience, there seems to be only so many combination of sounds so there is really nothing totally brand new that sounds good. How many songs use standard rock and roll or common blues chord changes? How can someone claim something like that beats me. But what it sounds like your describing is like "sampling" except you're playing it out in a transformation way: similar to how say Kanye West would sample a record and slow it down, loop it and use it as another part? I think he needs a license to do that so you probably might too if you did that. But still, I can't tell you where theft ends and where new begins. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

 

[grimtraveller]

Two words* GT - Men At Work's "The Land Downunder" & kiddy sing-a-long tune "Kookaburra Sits In The Old Gum Tree"

The fluterer in MAW deliberately lifted (as a sort of homage) the melody of KSITOGT (it's the second bar of the flute riff, sped up) and, 25 or so years later, got sued majorly by the copyright holder of KSITOGT - who has nothing to do with the person who wrote it... and lost, badly... now have to pay back royalties...

So yes, considered stealing...

Laugh, kookaburra, laugh, kookaburra - gay your life must be...........

@grim
The first half of your question I see happen all the time in mainstream music but I think when an artist is on a major label they have cleared access to most of the catalog to sort of snippet from to make hooks or even cover. Someone I know on a major label told me that after I asked about a song they did which took a section from Ring My Bell for a break.

As far as the second half of your question, I wonder the same thing. I'm not a classically trained pianist but from my experience, there seems to be only so many combination of sounds so there is really nothing totally brand new that sounds good. How many songs use standard rock and roll or common blues chord changes? How can someone claim something like that beats me. But what it sounds like your describing is like "sampling" except you're playing it out in a transformation way: similar to how say Kanye West would sample a record and slow it down, loop it and use it as another part? I think he needs a license to do that so you probably might too if you did that. But still, I can't tell you where theft ends and where new begins. That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out.

Armistice's tale is kind of worrying and it demonstrates how money can be such a leveller.......Maybe I'm just an old head but there was a time when bands and artists communicated with each other by 'quoting' from each others work. It was known as 'the witty steal' or just a nod in the particular direction. OK, some took it too far and plundered peoples' music wholesale and never credited the source (Led Zeppelin were infamous when it came to that) but despite the almost endless combination possibilities, it's also inevitable that some pieces will sound very close to others. And it's not necesarilly intentional.

@ocnor

unfortunately I can't find the humor in your opinion but I appreciate your feedback

Don't mind him ! He's a heavy rockin' priest from the temples of Syrinx. His great computers fill the hallowed halls.....

 

[RAMI]

I think before any of us worry about get sued, we first have to worry about being heard.

This is all a big non-issue.