When to use a ribbon mic?

To anyone: Is this covered in Harveys big mic thread? I need to re-read that monster.

I've never used one personally, but I know this: 1) not for high SPL sources (delicate ribbon) 2) don't they tend to be "darker" sounding 3) have a low output 4) have a "smooth, silky, dare i say "unhyped?" character

these may be generalizations and stereotypes, so anyone correct me so I may learn as well....

I need to invest in a few of them...
 
Ribbon microphones like the old RCA ribbon mics, work very well with trumpets and other brass instruments. You can get an awesome sound out of them.
 
most likely on the vocalist or other accoustic instruments. Ribbons are smooth, smooth, smooth but need a preamp with tons of clean gain.

Because of their fragile nature I would actually be reluctant to use them for anything outside of the studio.

Also because all ribbons have a figure-8 pickup pattern they could be difficult to position for a live band. For example if you used it for the vocalist the mic would also be equally picking up the audience noise.
 
that is why you usually see the ribbon mics pointing up to the vocalist in old pictures.. i assume. dont know for sure. but that is what i would do... of course in those days there werent floor monitors.. pointing the back end of a figure 8 to the floor monitor is a uh.. bad idea.

ribbon mics live? the beyer m500 was designed for it.

other than that, i would skip it.
 
Ribbon mics as a class may be used for any application.

Just as with condensor or moving-coil designs, there is a great variation among them.

Although the "natural" polar pattern of a ribbon is figure-of-eight, not all ribbons have that pattern. The Beyerdynamic ribbons (except for the M130) have cardioid or hypercardiod patterns. The Shure 330 has a cardioid pattern.

Many ribbons can handle very high sound-pressure levels, like over 150 db! What is dangerous to them is gusts of wind.

And yes, most ribbons have lower output than moving-coil dynamics; but not always, and it's generally not a problem.

So what can you say about when to use a GOOD ribbon? (Yes, there are many ribbon mics which I wouldn't call good, either because they were made that way or because they're worn out.)

Use them when you want a natural sound.
Use them for shrill or brassy sources, as they tend to smooth out those sources.
Use a figure-of-eight when you want to avoid bleed from other sources, or when monitoring from the side, because the null side areas are more insensitive than those of any other polar pattern.
Use them when you want a nice big proximity effect.
Use them for vocals, live or not, when the singer isn't going to be real close to the mic. I am a part-time cantor, and the AEA R84 is my friend, because I can sing two feet away from it and get a full rich sound. A big ribbon mic has tremendous reach.
Use them just for variety. Instead of miking the guitar cabinet with the old SM57, reach for an M500 instead.
Use them when you want that glorious late-40s/early-50s studio sound.

DON'T USE them if you need to "cut through the mix." Get an Electrovoice N/D767 for that...
DON'T USE them for screaming into.
DON'T LEND them to your buddies in a metal or punk band.
 
Many use them for overheads, micing guitar cabs, vocals, acoustic instrumentation, and brass.

I'm not a big fan of putting a ribbon on a drum kit, unless you can sacrifice a couple of mics. Not neccessarily from SPL's, but because alot of drummers tend to hit the overheads with the sticks sometimes. And, a ribbon is not a mic that you want to beat around.
 
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good "first" ribbon that's not too expensive (under $300) and does a good job with guit amp, vox....Beyer m500?
 
Phosphene asks:
Does anyone have a suggestion for a good "first" ribbon that's not too expensive (under $300) and does a good job with guit amp, vox....Beyer m500?

The M500 is a quality mic and useful for many things. It is not what I would call typical of ribbon mics as a whole, however. Nor is the M260. Their ribbons are very small, and each of them exhibits a pretty attenuated low end, without much proximity effect.

If you want a new one, the ML52 is about the ONLY option < $300. The quality control is not so good (I had one that just quit without being abused). If you want used, look for a nice old Shure 300 or 330 on eBay, but be prepared to be outbid at $300.
 
AGCurry said:
The M500 is a quality mic and useful for many things. It is not what I would call typical of ribbon mics as a whole, however. Nor is the M260. Their ribbons are very small, and each of them exhibits a pretty attenuated low end, without much proximity effect.
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you might have an m260.80 which at an attenuated low end. the original m260 is pretty thick on bottom with a TON of proximity effect. soundwise it solidly says "ribbon", although it is unique in some other respects. people with the "sank mod" report that it gets very close to RCA in sound, although i would doubt this myself. mine is stock. i see no need to change it, it is one of my most used mics.

http://www.thuntek.net/~bk11/4sale.htm for sank. he seems to say that the beyer ribbons can be fitted with an RCA 77 element. seeing as how the 77 is practically the quintissential ribbon mic... i would think that one could say that beyers are near typical of a ribbon.

the ml-52 is supposed to be nice, but narrow in its usefulness.
 
I use ribbons all the time for recording live bands in the studio, both acoustic and electric...

A single Coles 4038 is my drum OH of choice...
A BK11 will also work in that appliction very nicely.

I love M260s or M500s for recording acoustic bands, mostly for vocals (although the M500 is great on fiddles) because of the great rejection.

I love using a 44BX for a room mic...

For ODs, I like using ribbons for anything that I'm having problems fitting into the mix...
Pianos come to mind...
A single 77DX in the sweet spot on an upright piano can be a great sound in a busy mix...

As far as a good starter ribbon mic goes, I'd recommend finding a beat RCA Varacoustic (there's one on ebay right now) and have it re-ribboned. These mics can be had for 200 bucks or so (it'll be interesting to see what the one on ebay goes for--it's pretty hacked), and sound very similar to a 77DX...
 
Ya know I just got to use these AEA R84's for the first time last night but I'm already asking myself..."what can't you use it for?"

I agree, leave it in the studio and keep air blasts away from it (don't stick it in the kick drum...no!) and you'll be fine.

War
 
Warhead said:
Ya know I just got to use these AEA R84's for the first time last night but I'm already asking myself..."what can't you use it for?"

I agree, leave it in the studio and keep air blasts away from it (don't stick it in the kick drum...no!) and you'll be fine.

War
Click to expand...

They rock on elec guitar! Dig 'em on vocals
 
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