Y
yorgo
New member
When mastering, would puting a bbe sonic maximizer be a good so;ution to making a good mix better????
Farview
Well-known member
No. It would be like throwing the mix on the ground , pissing on it, stomping it a few times, then lighting it on fire.
What is wrong with the mix? You have to identify what would need to change for the mix to get better. There is no magic box that turns crap into gold. If there was Guitar Center wouldn't be selling them for less than $500.
What is wrong with the mix? You have to identify what would need to change for the mix to get better. There is no magic box that turns crap into gold. If there was Guitar Center wouldn't be selling them for less than $500.
S
Soundog
New member
I found that it was good for bringing up the apparent clarity of dull material such as poorly recorded vocals, but you really pay a price for it in terms of sibilance, and it often results in harsh edgy digitalness to the sound - the sort that can make your ears bleed when the volume is turned up - which might be perfect if you're doing a punk rock record. Presuming you're not, a good mix shouldn't have any of this, and I've found that well recorded vocals ( done through really good gear ) "benefits" very little from it anyway.
I don't mind it as an effect on some lead synth sounds in isolation, but generally not as a buss insert applied globally to a mix.
I don't mind it as an effect on some lead synth sounds in isolation, but generally not as a buss insert applied globally to a mix.
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Jason (Farview), I hate to say this, but you're sadly mistaken on this -
You have to start it on fire first. THEN piss on it. Otherwise, it won't light.
You have to start it on fire first. THEN piss on it. Otherwise, it won't light.
Farview
Well-known member
Ooops! you are right. Fire first, water second. Eggs on top, canned goods on the bottom.
C
Cloneboy Studio
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I agree.
Sonic Maximixers on your end mix is... gross.
Now I'll use them (exciters--the Aphex ones) on occasion for cymbals or discrete tracks but NEVER for distorted guitar, vocals or an entire mix. It's just too gross to contemplate.
Sonic Maximixers on your end mix is... gross.
Now I'll use them (exciters--the Aphex ones) on occasion for cymbals or discrete tracks but NEVER for distorted guitar, vocals or an entire mix. It's just too gross to contemplate.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
yorgo said:
The first question is what ill are you trying to solve?
If you need clarity in the mix, it's better obtained through EQ than slapping a BBE on the mix. BBEs add distortion that "trick" the ear and don't necessarily translate well accross different systems. The idea with mastering is to produce something that does.
Beyond that, putting the mix on fire and pissing on it can be a good enhancement for punk and hardcore tracks.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Farview said:
ROFLMAOFarview said:
yep... pretty much sums it up!
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Where do I get a piss and fire plug-in?
What's your favorite plug-in for this?
How come my piss and fire plug-in doesn't sound as loud as the commercial ones?
Can I download these for free?
What's your favorite plug-in for this?
How come my piss and fire plug-in doesn't sound as loud as the commercial ones?
Can I download these for free?
Track Rat
Just Your Average Sized Member
I like the Urinator plug in by Uranus (makers of Brown 25).
G
gusfmm
New member
Cloneboy Studio said:
A sonic exciter/maxmzer on a final mix would definitely toss to the garbage all the previous tone and character of whatever you've done before. A no-no-no 100%
But, Why not for distorted guitars??? I don't think my guitar rig would sound so well without the BBE. Does it sound digital? I don't think so, perhaps just not as analog as some purist would like, but I use an all tube compressor and all tube pre-amp (distortion), digital FXs and then the BBE. It definitely kicks butt.
Farview
Well-known member
In my experience, this sort of setup will produce a thin, over processed type of guitar sound that is very outdated (think Top Gun soundtrack). You may have found a way to make it sound like something, but if the BBE made it sound better, I doubt it.gusfmm said:
I have no idea what your rig sounds like, but I have been riddled by guitar heroes with this kind of setup for about 20 years. If your stuff truly sounds great, you would be the first.
G
gusfmm
New member
Farview said:
Well, I guess you'd have to explain what "thin" and "over processed" means to you. Not even messing around with my tube multiFX and the BBE have I gotten any "thin" tone ever.
My rig:
- Ibanez Prestige guitar
- ART TCS tube compressor -> just to add some extra sustain
- Mesa Boogie Triaxis tube pre-amp
- Digitech GSP-2101 Limited Edition tube multiFX (18bit A/D/A)
- BBE 482
- Mesa Boogie 20/20 tube power amp
- Mesa Boogie 2x12 3/4 open back cab
How it sounds (or how I've made it sound like)? Listen to Pantera's Vulgar Display of Power, any song, but Cemetery Gates is a perfect example, although I play prog-metal, more a la Dream Theater. I can assure you pal, it does not sound outdated or thin at all, and it sounds just right with the BBE playing its role at the end of the pre-amp stage. At least it is perfect for studio & home recording, thus far.
Farview
Well-known member
Those Pantera albums are 10 years old! I have a TON of experience with the 2101. What a freaking bucket of bees that thing is (yes, I am familiar with the 'artist chip') Even if you aren't using it for distortion, it won't pass full range signal without leaving an upper mid bump. The tube circuit in that is of the starved plate variety and is about as warm as a dead penguins feet.
The triaxis is great and the power amps are great, but if you are going for Dimebags sound, you are using the wrong stuff. I could see using a BBE to mimick that scooped mid thing, but if you were using the right stuff to get the sound, you wouldn't need it. I didn't mean to shit on your rig, but I have been plagued with guitar heroes with rigs like yours. I have worked with them, trying to get them a good tone that would give them enough grease to be able to sweep pick there brains out without giving everyone a headache. The first step was to turn off the BBE. (they ALL have a BBE) It takes a couple of days to get used to it, but it is better. After about 2 weeks, i plug it back in and they are taken aback by the brittleness that they had gotten used to.
The triaxis is great and the power amps are great, but if you are going for Dimebags sound, you are using the wrong stuff. I could see using a BBE to mimick that scooped mid thing, but if you were using the right stuff to get the sound, you wouldn't need it. I didn't mean to shit on your rig, but I have been plagued with guitar heroes with rigs like yours. I have worked with them, trying to get them a good tone that would give them enough grease to be able to sweep pick there brains out without giving everyone a headache. The first step was to turn off the BBE. (they ALL have a BBE) It takes a couple of days to get used to it, but it is better. After about 2 weeks, i plug it back in and they are taken aback by the brittleness that they had gotten used to.
C
Cloneboy Studio
.
Personally Pantera's guitar tone is thin and fizzy sounding. Not a high benchmark of tone for me. Nasty solid state distortion with too much upper mids, not enough beef and too many lows.
I'm a 'plug guitar into the amp' kind of guy. A guitar, a cable and a tube amp are all that are really needed for a good tone. Anything else you add in is probably going to suck tone.
For distorted guitar sounds I personally like Soundgarden on "Louder Than Love."
I can see where the BBE, ART and GSP fit into your tone though--it will make the Mesa sound more like a solid state amp and less like a tube... although why anyone would want to do that is beyond me.
I'm a 'plug guitar into the amp' kind of guy. A guitar, a cable and a tube amp are all that are really needed for a good tone. Anything else you add in is probably going to suck tone.
For distorted guitar sounds I personally like Soundgarden on "Louder Than Love."
I can see where the BBE, ART and GSP fit into your tone though--it will make the Mesa sound more like a solid state amp and less like a tube... although why anyone would want to do that is beyond me.
Carter
Total gear slut
Track Rat said:
FLMAO!!!!!!!!!!
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
I'll admit to being a former BBE user - With both knobs anywhere between 1 and 1.5 tops.
But yeah, I know plenty of guys who had those knobs spun up to 4 or 5... Painful. Maybe if they had an old Marshall cab with the original Rola's in it, but a lot of these guys take perfectly good guitar tones and absolutely ruin them with one little box.
(OTR, yeah... "Pantera" and "really thin guitar tone" are two phrases that fit VERY well together).
But yeah, I know plenty of guys who had those knobs spun up to 4 or 5... Painful. Maybe if they had an old Marshall cab with the original Rola's in it, but a lot of these guys take perfectly good guitar tones and absolutely ruin them with one little box.
(OTR, yeah... "Pantera" and "really thin guitar tone" are two phrases that fit VERY well together).
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gusfmm
New member
Whoooooa.... impressive indeed. You guys seem to have the recipe for the holly grail of the perfect thick and rawish guitar tone. Awesome, good for you.
Couple of comments:
Guitar -> cable -> Marshall -----> sorry, not me.
Soundgarden????
Well, not for me either. How would you do if you wanted to play something a bit more elaborate than power chords (with all due respect to SG, I've got nothing against them)? Ever tried to play Vai? Ain't gonna sound right with justta bare cable.
I'm still waiting for you guys to mention a non-thin guitar tone. But let me assume anything processed a la Vai, Satriani, Batten, Beach, etc should sound very thin right?
2101: Quite agree, with 18bit A/D/A 48kHz it is obvious that the signal can't get through uncolored. But I'd replace my whole setup to buy it if you tell me of just one mFX that does not. Even the bloody overated TC G-Force or the ultra-overpriced Eventides do affect it. BTW, I don't ever use the 2101's tube distortion, it is dreadful. I already paid a few bucks for something else to do tube distortion.
Now, have you heard of FX loops? Triaxis's got one, guess where I get a full bandwidth raw signal to mix with the processed one from the 2101.
Poor guys at BBE, the don't seem to have many friends around here.
Couple of comments:
Guitar -> cable -> Marshall -----> sorry, not me.
Soundgarden????
Well, not for me either. How would you do if you wanted to play something a bit more elaborate than power chords (with all due respect to SG, I've got nothing against them)? Ever tried to play Vai? Ain't gonna sound right with justta bare cable. I'm still waiting for you guys to mention a non-thin guitar tone. But let me assume anything processed a la Vai, Satriani, Batten, Beach, etc should sound very thin right?
2101: Quite agree, with 18bit A/D/A 48kHz it is obvious that the signal can't get through uncolored. But I'd replace my whole setup to buy it if you tell me of just one mFX that does not. Even the bloody overated TC G-Force or the ultra-overpriced Eventides do affect it. BTW, I don't ever use the 2101's tube distortion, it is dreadful. I already paid a few bucks for something else to do tube distortion.
Now, have you heard of FX loops? Triaxis's got one, guess where I get a full bandwidth raw signal to mix with the processed one from the 2101.
Poor guys at BBE, the don't seem to have many friends around here.
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Blue Bear Sound
New member
ahem... bullshit..... CDs seem to do fine at 16-bit/44.1KHz....... it's all about converter quality, not number of bits and sampling rate.gusfmm said:
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gusfmm
New member
That sounds nice on paper, but you're talking about two totally different things, and that was not the point at all. We were talking about preserving the analog tube signal from the pre-amp.
To digitally reproduce an analog signal as closely as possible you would need the highest bit and sampling rate as possible "in theory". Today's common mFx is 24bit 48-96kHz. But you know this already. BTW, I guess your studio uses all 16bit 44.1 kHz effects, digital recorders, consoles, A/D units, etc... yeah, right.
To digitally reproduce an analog signal as closely as possible you would need the highest bit and sampling rate as possible "in theory". Today's common mFx is 24bit 48-96kHz. But you know this already. BTW, I guess your studio uses all 16bit 44.1 kHz effects, digital recorders, consoles, A/D units, etc... yeah, right.