When do sounds become a song or "tune"?

[punkin]

I'm an instrumentalist at heart. Forgive me but it's the combination of sounds that move and inspire me. The words, lyrics to me are often an added bonus. Some songs simply don't stand without the words while often times I hear sounds that work all by themselves.

I often find myself getting sucked into sonic rants that don't seem to have structure but I can't put them away. I'm certain that I'm not the only one as when I was in school, many of the required listening courses had us observing some pretty avant garte stuff. I still get a sample of some of this "out-there" stuff when listening to late night public radio.

So, I ask when does a collection of sounds become a viable piece and deserving of the classification as "song"?

 

[Trell Blaze]

So, I ask when does a collection of sounds become a viable piece and deserving of the classification as "song"?

According to today's hip-hop & pop standards, any time it can be marketed into millions of dollars...

 

[Freddy]

I'd say it becomes a song when someone is required to sing on it.. which often requires words (or at least defined sounds that are sung).

Up until then, it is a tune, or a composition - but not a song.

 

[danny.guitar]

Hm...

I think it's a song when it doesn't just sound like random sounds...



I don't think a piece of music requires words to be considered a song. A song also has structure, most do anyway. With poor structure it can sound more like random notes/goofing off or in other words, "jazz".

 

[up-fiddler]

Hm...

I think it's a song when it doesn't just sound like random sounds...



I don't think a piece of music requires words to be considered a song. A song also has structure, most do anyway. With poor structure it can sound more like random notes/goofing off or in other words, "jazz".

These folks think it becomes a song at this point.....

WHAT WORKS ARE PROTECTED?

Copyright protects “original works of authorship” that are fixed in a tangible form of expression. The fixation need not be directly perceptible so long as it may be communicated with the aid of a machine or device. Copyrightable works include the following categories:

* (1) literary works;
* (2) musical works, including any accompanying words
* (3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music
* (4) pantomimes and choreographic works
* (5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works
* (6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works
* (7) sound recordings
* (8) architectural works

These categories should be viewed broadly. For example, computer programs and most “compilations” may be registered as “literary works”; maps and architectural plans may be registered as “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works.”

 

[vadoom]

I'm an instrumentalist at heart. Forgive me but it's the combination of sounds that move and inspire me. The words, lyrics to me are often an added bonus. Some songs simply don't stand without the words while often times I hear sounds that work all by themselves.

I often find myself getting sucked into sonic rants that don't seem to have structure but I can't put them away. I'm certain that I'm not the only one as when I was in school, many of the required listening courses had us observing some pretty avant garte stuff. I still get a sample of some of this "out-there" stuff when listening to late night public radio.

So, I ask when does a collection of sounds become a viable piece and deserving of the classification as "song"?

Interestingly appropriate...

What do you think of my latest work?
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=750734

Would you say it is a song or a tune??

 

[andydeedpoll]

for me, i'd have to see a song as something portraying a story or emotion, and almost definately with words and normally with an accompaniment. sort of like yhow you can see a symphony in an orchestra fulfilling certain criteria to 'become a symphony'... i suppose, traditionally at least, songs have a certain verse-chorus structure about them, though that obviously isn't prescriptive in any way, and i've written 'songs' that are what i've always thought of as 'through composed' - the accompaniment, chord sequence and melody change depending on what the lyrics are doing.

just a few thoughts.

Andrew.

 

[Whatmysay]

When we recognise the hand of intervention upon the chaos of cacophony of organic sound – unless of course cacophony is the intention of the hand of intervention (Strawberry fields reverse tape) or the organic cacophony imitates order (Pulsar stars).

Within that range determination of songs or tunes is, as with all, down to education, experience, intelligence and sometimes innate automatic response.

Music is in the ear of the behearer

 

[mikeh]

It seems to me, a collection of sounds becomes a completed work when the artist believes it to be so. That does not mean others will percieve it to be a song or a valid artisitic statement - but only the artist can determine when his/her musical vision is complete.

 

[vadoom]

It seems to me, a collection of sounds becomes a completed work when the artist believes it to be so. That does not mean others will percieve it to be a song or a valid artisitic statement - but only the artist can determine when his/her musical vision is complete.

i'm sure I can post a thing or two where it is obvious that a "song" or what I usually like to call a "project" is not complete even if I try to persuade everyone that it is...

 

[Lt. Bob]

It seems to me, a collection of sounds becomes a completed work when the artist believes it to be so. That does not mean others will percieve it to be a song or a valid artisitic statement - but only the artist can determine when his/her musical vision is complete.

Ditto ..... it's a song when you say it is although the point made earlier of technically only being 'song' if it's sung.But that's only semantics .... either way, it's a composition when the composer says it is.
As for structure ..... well, look at some of the avant garde music in the 60's and 70's. There's some pretty weird shit in there .... much of which I personally consider noise, but clearly it's in the history books as a legitimate form of music so I think artistic intensions have to be taken into account even if you hate the piece.

 

[MadAudio]

The moment any combination of sounds you are producing speaks to your soul, it's music.

Damn, I almost sound like I'm tripping!

 

[vadoom]

Ditto ..... it's a song when you say it is although the point made earlier of technically only being 'song' if it's sung.But that's only semantics .... either way, it's a composition when the composer says it is.
As for structure ..... well, look at some of the avant garde music in the 60's and 70's. There's some pretty weird shit in there .... much of which I personally consider noise, but clearly it's in the history books as a legitimate form of music so I think artistic intensions have to be taken into account even if you hate the piece.

I refuse to accept the noise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[vadoom]

The moment any combination of sounds you are producing speaks to your soul, it's music.

Damn, I almost sound like I'm tripping!

Wow, man*, your going deep there...





*"woman" if you are that gender...

 

[Eclectist]

I don't know about others, but I've had several songs that fell together out of two or three 'sonic rants'; complex pieces whose bridges just seemed to suggest themselves after they were juxtaposed.

If you're in need of examples, try Doctor Nerve, Utotem (or 5uu's or Motor Totemist Guild, which were combined for Utotem), or even Captain Beefheart.

 

[vadoom]

I don't know about others, but I've had several songs that fell together out of two or three 'sonic rants'; complex pieces whose bridges just seemed to suggest themselves after they were juxtaposed.

If you're in need of examples, try Doctor Nerve, Utotem (or 5uu's or Motor Totemist Guild, which were combined for Utotem), or even Captain Beefheart.

I'd say whoever mixes songs plays an important role as well... Personally I've always enjoyed 'songs' that go from one style to another (i.e. R&B/techno to classical to something else then back, etc, etc...)

 

[Oancient1]

So, I ask when does a collection of sounds become a viable piece and deserving of the classification as "song"?

For me it becomes a song when I first mix it down. More often than not that is before lyrics, and the mix goes on a CD which I listen to and sing along with in the car as I make my way to and from work each day. If I am lucky I come up with lyrics doing this, if not then either I go back and add a guitar track to make it an instrumental, or just give up on it, in which case it is no longer a song at all.

Tom

 

[vadoom]

For me it becomes a song when I first mix it down. More often than not that is before lyrics, and the mix goes on a CD which I listen to and sing along with in the car as I make my way to and from work each day. If I am lucky I come up with lyrics doing this, if not then either I go back and add a guitar track to make it an instrumental, or just give up on it, in which case it is no longer a song at all.

Tom

Oh, I'm sure most 'projects' can be turned into an instrumental...

The link to one of my recent projects demonstrates just that. The music was meant for a song. I didn't want the lyrics, so I tweaked it a bit (didn't add or take away anything from the actual music) and I actually ended up liking it

I have another one I worked on not too long ago, did the same thing... Even my wife liked it. She always wants me to turn it on when drive somewhere together...

Anyways, just takes a bit of creativity I suppose...

 

[Eclectist]

For me it becomes a song when I first mix it down. More often than not that is before lyrics, and the mix goes on a CD which I listen to and sing along with in the car as I make my way to and from work each day. If I am lucky I come up with lyrics doing this, if not then either I go back and add a guitar track to make it an instrumental, or just give up on it, in which case it is no longer a song at all.

Tom

THAT IS FREAKIN' AWESOME!!
(I wondered how many people did this besides me. Now I don't feel like such a freak).

 

[vadoom]

THAT IS FREAKIN' AWESOME!!
(I wondered how many people did this besides me. Now I don't feel like such a freak).

It's ok, calm down, everybody does that...