whats wrong with this mix? indie/rock (goodquality)

  • Thread starter Thread starter crookedcreek
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The mix, in a minute.

But first, there are editing chores.

The bass player's time sounds like the most reliable...and the drummer is lagging and dragging, consistently, through the song....playing just behind the pulse set by the bass player...which, as I said, feels reliable. This might be one of those rare opportunities to advance the drum track milliseconds at a time, until it syncs with the pulse established by the bass guy.

Some of the early guitar figures are also lagging...players probably confused by the difference in pulse between the bass and drums....the recording sounds like it was cobbled together with tracks added, rather than a one-session take.....bass first, then guitars added, and the players unsire where the actual pulse was, because the bass and drums were out of sync?? Or the drums were added last. Those guitar parts can be fixed....also pegged to the bass or a grid. If you recorded with a metronome, you can record the beat to a track, and edit all the lazy parts to the visible transients.

So that's the fundamental flaw in the record that has to be fixed before anything else. The time is ragged.....the result sounding like the band is sleep-deprived. No groove.... y' gotta find a way to fix it.

Mix: the guitars L&R could be panned-in to communicate better with each other and the rest of the band, I think. Too extreme in this case.

The vocal and drums seem to have no presense above the mids.

I reckon that once you get these things sorted out, you can take it to levels and pans and blends and ambience.

If you're gonna re-record some stuff, try rehearsing the parts more...there's a stain of uncertainty in all the playing. Get likkedy with it.

One more thing. The song has potential, but the arrangement could be tricked-up with some solid, melodic elements in the guitars, maybe a modulation...or the chorus modulated to another key for its duration. The choruses could use more flow, less chop, and more melodic, unison motion to slam a dynamic wave into a listener, and break out of the verse groove more.

MHO.
 
Actually sounds pretty good to me. The drums do seem to be lagging a bit. Could be the odd drum pattern in the main verses. The choruses sound fantastic. Much fuller than the verses with the cymbal rides and lead guitar bits. The guitars seem a bit too much mid for my tastes. Getting kind of tinny sounding. If anything bugs me about the tune it would probably be the tone of the guitars. They're lacking something. They're not bad though. A bit of different eqing would probably make all the difference in the world. The wideness isn't too bad. Might bring them a bit more center to glue things together. The tone of the drums sounds good. The bass is kinda 'plain'. A different bass groove would be more interesting rather than just following the guitars. Bass tone sounds good. Over all you have a really good mix going. Just the guitar tone would be my nit pick. And that's really picky because it sounds pretty good when I crank the tune up to a fairly loud level.

Dave
 
StudioPlayer:
Went the your site and listened to a handfull of your works to get an idea of where you were listening from. Solid stuff, good mixes....really like the way the vocal melodies tie everything together. Real Brian Ferry feel.

If the bass in the above piece were rounder, the wide guitsplit would work better...that's what you got goin' on in your mixes...a big middle...and much more in-the-pocket melodic invention there.

I listened to the subject again. The drums aren't hitting me as bad as they did, time-wise...but I think an advance would be the ticket.

And I can see where you'd prefer more highs in the guitar.....that's your sound. But the bass in your mixes makes it work...and you don't pan as wide.

Nice work, your tunes...and a good comment.
 
Cheers Jeff. As I say "Forever learning" & "Still learning to play the damn guitar!" It's listening to different mixes and the comments that help me to hear my own songs better. It's easy to make comments. It's another thing being on the mixing board. And often it comes down to personal taste. Forums like this really help on many ways. :)

Dave
 
thanks for your guys input! the song was recorded to a metronome. drums first w/scratch guitar, then i recorded the bass myself, then my guitar, then we had the other guitarist come in and record his stuff as well as sing. but you guys got it to the button. i never really liked the guitars, but i thought i would just go for it. as for the drummer, hes not the best drummer haha as you can tell. so how would i move just the drums, if everything is played to a click? just literally move certain hits to their spot? or should we just re-record the song? haha thanks a whole bunch! it means a lot to me!!!
 
Listening on cans and the guitars sound distractingly loud. OK - turned down now, and the lyrics are beginning to register and the song is pretty good. It seems like, unless you turn it down, the whole thing is too loud to hear the song and the guitars seem too high in the mix.
 
Do a stereo mixdown.... bounce of all the drum tracks. Nip a bit from the start of the new track. Zoom way in on that track, and mute the other drum tracks.
Highlight the new mixdown, and point, click, and drag the track a little so as to advance the time. He plays habitually behind the beat.....so you advance his time to meet or anticipate the grid, generally. A little at a time, advance it. Listen for a point when groove happens, if it happens. The major lags can be highlighted, and slipped up more, as necessary. It's an art. Ears are the final judge.

As a general rule, slightly advanced hits are not a huge issue...but anything behind the beat is death to groove.

And the other guys are right....the guits are overpowering. Scootching them in toward CTR will lower their apparent level. Check a mono playback.
 
I like the texture of the song. Nice layers, good use of the ranges of the instruments.

Agree, drummer seems to be playing a little behind the beat whereas the rest of the band is not. To me this is not to the degree of being right or wrong. It's a stylistic thing.

Vocalist is a hair flat when he reaches up to the high notes. I like his voice though. Fits the music well.

Drum and guitar sounds are very nice.
 
I agree with the bass being bigger to pull the mix together but I also think for this style of music the kick should should be more present. To me the kick sounds very empty no real body or punch.

I really like this tune! Fix the rhythmic errors and a few mix errors and you have a fantastic song!

( Although I think the last part is a little much )
 
thank you guys for all your input! we are just going to rerecord the song haha. the song was still new at the time of recording.

as far as you guys saying nudge over the drums so they are aligned with the rest of the song. ive tried that and it kinda sounds sloppier! then i tried moving certain hits of the kick, snare, and toms but when i did that, the OH's werent matching the hits. so it would hear like a ghost hit before the actual hit came in on the close mics.

ill be posting a new thread with another song very shortly. let me know what you guys think of that mix.
 
crookedcreek said:
as far as you guys saying nudge over the drums so they are aligned with the rest of the song. ive tried that and it kinda sounds sloppier! then i tried moving certain hits of the kick, snare, and toms but when i did that, the OH's werent matching the hits. so it would hear like a ghost hit before the actual hit came in on the close mics.
Click to expand...

I know the problem, you just need to move the whole drumkit. I mean you need to move all parts on all drum tracks. It's just as easy as moving the part on one track. Just make sure you have all the drum tracks selected when you split and quantize. I'm using reaper and you need to do a two step manual quantizing there so you don't lose the transients to the crossfades. I found that tip in this cockos forum thread. Maybe other DAWs don't have the problem with losing the attack on quantizing.

Cheers
Tim
 
crookedcreek said:
thank you guys for all your input! we are just going to rerecord the song haha. the song was still new at the time of recording.

as far as you guys saying nudge over the drums so they are aligned with the rest of the song. ive tried that and it kinda sounds sloppier! then i tried moving certain hits of the kick, snare, and toms but when i did that, the OH's werent matching the hits. so it would hear like a ghost hit before the actual hit came in on the close mics.

ill be posting a new thread with another song very shortly. let me know what you guys think of that mix.
Click to expand...

Yeah...that's why I said "if possible". But you also might be able to snip and slip the cymbals or other kit parts on the o'head track...align the o'heads momentarily with whichever kit part you're moving. It's a lot of work, to be sure; but there always seems to be a way of doing it. After a while, you develop an sixth sense about what will work, and what you can get away with. And the speed with which you can make those edits will increase on an exponential curve.

I spent the first year of recording midi to audio tracks at inception. I didn't know what quantizing was,. I'd spend a week aligning hits and chords and whatever manually....snip, slip, copy, paste: my tracks looked like Frankenstein. But, after a while, what took me a week took me a few days...then a day...then a few hours. And it wasn't wasted. I developed skills that still serve me...even though I am prone to fewer errors making song tracks. I can edit likkedy-split, things which would otherwise cause me to re-record a whole track......and save a lot of time. Just have to know, through experience, what's possible....and you can save a lot of time.....or make rescue of projects that would otherwise need to be ditched.

Rock on!

So, don't give up too easily
 
Cool song. I liked the doubling on the guitars. Liked most of the performances. Having said that...

Agree with the comments on the drums and bass not locking in the verses. Agree with most of the comments.

The vocals sound like they're in a different space from the instruments. They stand out fine. But they're bone dry compared to the rest of the band. Like the singer is about a foot from my ear and the band is on the other side of the room.

Distorted guitars sound OK. Just something about them that's not doing it for me. A little crispy for my ear.

Mostly nits ('cept the drums/bass thing). Overall pretty good.
 
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