what's the hardest guitar riffs/solos to learn ever?

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It's funny, I never see classical violinists talking about "shred", because they can all do it. It got boring for them in the 19th century, with all the ridiculous violin concerti of the Romantic era.

Anyway, once I tried to transcribe "L'Isle Joyeuse" for guitar. I gave up.
 
In terms of sheer technique, I've never heard anyone who can top Rusty Cooley. I only haven't quit guitar because I'm pretty sure he's not human, but rather an alien come down to depress as many bedroom shredders as he can. :D

http://www.chopsfromhell.com/guest_cooley_7ds1.html

Check out the last one, "Wrath." Remember that these are just technical workouts and not "music," per se. I can barely even play that at his "slow demonstration" speed, lol.

I'm not saying he's the most musical of guitarists, but rather I don't know anyone personally who can play at this technical level.
 
In terms of sheer technique, I've never heard anyone who can top Rusty Cooley. I only haven't quit guitar because I'm pretty sure he's not human, but rather an alien come down to depress as many bedroom shredders as he can. :D

http://www.chopsfromhell.com/guest_cooley_7ds1.html

Check out the last one, "Wrath." Remember that these are just technical workouts and not "music," per se. I can barely even play that at his "slow demonstration" speed, lol.

I'm not saying he's the most musical of guitarists, but rather I don't know anyone personally who can play at this technical level.

It's like he has this amazing gift for technical patterns and speed but he doesnt put them together to say anything different or anything that has any feeling. I have his cd and the Outworld one and the more I listen to them the more everything sounds the same - technical passages just for the sake of being technical. Amazing skill though.
Check this insane Shawn Lane vid out, its an instructional too so not really reflective of what the guy actually played but it shows what unbelievable speed he was capable of.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=57q5zdvMw58
Check out the other vids of him on youtube after that one and you will see total variety from country to Zappa to folk to rock to all out crazy shred. So far he is the most rounded player I've seen, he could play anything at all, slow or fast, with or without feel - depending on what worked at that particular moment. Pity he died when he did, he had a lot of cool stuff to offer and he seemed like a nice guy too.
 
Pat Metheny: infinitely inventive use of scales, all over the damn shop. I can keep up for about half a bar (on a good day, and on cocaine) only to be left in the dust. Holy cow. All that, and you get to hear him in a department store elevator on the odd occasion! Then there's Classical/Flamenco. There's this three fingered dude who runs rings 'round me, too. Sob.

Right on! I was gonna say him.
 
The whole shred thing is pretty simple. If you're willing to put the time in to sit there and practice scales, arpeggios, and three-note-per-string patterns, every day for hours on end, then you're likely to develop blazing speed ... doing those things.

But the minute you ask the vast majority of those shred guys to play something different than those patterns they're used to, like a jazzy line, for instance, they're at a loss. Granted, there are exceptions to this.

But my point is, blazing up and down 3-note-per-string patterns is really just gymnastics. And for that, sure, it's impressive, but it doesn't really make for very interesting music to listen to, IMHO.

For me, I'd much rather have the chops of someone like a Robben Ford or a Pat Metheny than a Paul Gilbert or a Rusty Cooley.

I'm not dissing speed. I just don't care for speed for speed's sake. I think Vai is one that makes musical use of speed.
 
But my point is, blazing up and down 3-note-per-string patterns is really just gymnastics. And for that, sure, it's impressive, but it doesn't really make for very interesting music to listen to, IMHO.

For me, I'd much rather have the chops of someone like a Robben Ford or a Pat Metheny than a Paul Gilbert or a Rusty Cooley.

I'm not dissing speed. I just don't care for speed for speed's sake. I think Vai is one that makes musical use of speed.


I would also say, personally, that it isn't really all that hard. It's just practice, and pretty mindless practice at that. Learning to play over changes is much more difficult; at least, if you want to do it well. That's the thing guys like Robin Ford, Pat Metheny, and Larry Carlton do so well. They play melodies that cross over bar lines and key changes, and they do it on the fly. That, as much as anything, is what I was talking about with my comment about that thing in your head up above.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
The whole shred thing is pretty simple. If you're willing to put the time in to sit there and practice scales, arpeggios, and three-note-per-string patterns, every day for hours on end, then you're likely to develop blazing speed ... doing those things.

To a point, that's true. I mean, I consider what technique I have a testament to this. :D

However, past a point... I know VERY few guys who have the kind of technical aptitude you see in a guy like Rusty Cooley. Anyone can build a moderate amount of speed, enough to play some pretty flashy runs, but to play at these kinds of speed, well, I've been practicing for years and I'll say pretty objectively at this point that I'm never going to be as fast as Cooley, and odds are I'll never be in the same ballpark.

That said, it's also pretty easy to knock speed for the sake of speed (and I'm with you there too, if it's not musical it's crap), but I feel like a lot of guys who get the "shred" label get unfairly written off simply because they play fast. There's a ton of YouTube bedroom shredders who don't do a thing to help this, but if you look at the truly gifted players in the "shred" thing - guys like Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, George Lynch, Neil Zaza - you'll find that while they have amazing technique, they also all have powerful and immediately recognizable melodic sensibilities.

Lynch is a name I almost dropped in this thread, simply because his phrasing is so off-the-wall. His first solo on Tony Macalpine's "Tears of Sahara" off Maximum Security is one of a handful of solos I've ever tried to learn note for note, and one I've absolutely failed to do so simply because I absolutely cannot cop his phrasing. I can do a passable imitation while improvising, and I consider him a huge influence, but I just can't get it down note for note because it's so strange - he plays around the beat a little, and he never quite lands on a note evenly, either sliding into it unpredictably, bending it slightly out as he holds it, or scooping the bar slightly and rising into it. His inflections are just masterful. Sure, he's a shredder, but I don't know many blues guys who can inflect one note in that many ways. You gotta start talking about guys like Albert King (one of his solos, "Personal Manager," I think, has him playing one bent note for an entire chorus, and making it sound different every time he hits it - genius) before you find a peer.

To be fair to Cooley, I think his debut he felt like he had to prove something. Outworld, too, is pretty balls-to-the-wall technique, but he's showing a little more of a melodic side. I have a feeling over his next couple albums he's going to mature as a player and his solos will be less of a technical tour-de-force and more of a musical statement that happens to use blistering technique. If he ever gets the full package together, he'll be just mind-numbingly good (not that he's bad these days, exactly, lol).
 
Zen response:
The hardest thing is to play a single note and make it *mean* something.

Actual response:
Something like 'Celtic Dream Stream' by Lenny Breau, or a tough classical piece like the ones mentioned above.
 
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