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audiomeanie
New member
What's the best (affordable) mic for outdoor, sterio recordings of the environment - e.g. rain, church bells, cars etc...?
darrin_h2000
Banned
There are some shotgun style ones with foam covers arround 70 bucks...you want the hyper pattern to isolate what you want recorded.
Shadow_7
New member
I tend to favor OMNI ones myself. Since you don't really know what you want recorded all the time. Thunder off axis on a hyper cardioid?
I've got a pair of Avenson STO-2's. Nice, but too much self noise for some things. Provided that you use windscreens appropriate for your region (even if you have to make them yourself).
I have two SM-81's as well(semi-hyper cardioid). Nice if your source is in a fixed location. But for things like cars driving by, yuck. Each mic at 45 degrees to each other and they only cover about a 90 degree window of sound. Angle the mics further and the stereo separation is too much. Very disturbing having the car in one ear, but not the other, then the other, then poof gone. Even though you can still see it / hear it when not monitoring.
My Avensons are so much more easy listening for outdoor ambiance. Recording a talking head within the limits of a camcorder in a noisy parking lot, not so much. So it really depends on what, where, when. It's always nice to have options.
I've got a pair of Avenson STO-2's. Nice, but too much self noise for some things. Provided that you use windscreens appropriate for your region (even if you have to make them yourself).
I have two SM-81's as well(semi-hyper cardioid). Nice if your source is in a fixed location. But for things like cars driving by, yuck. Each mic at 45 degrees to each other and they only cover about a 90 degree window of sound. Angle the mics further and the stereo separation is too much. Very disturbing having the car in one ear, but not the other, then the other, then poof gone. Even though you can still see it / hear it when not monitoring.
My Avensons are so much more easy listening for outdoor ambiance. Recording a talking head within the limits of a camcorder in a noisy parking lot, not so much. So it really depends on what, where, when. It's always nice to have options.
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pezking
New member
Omnis are also less susceptible to wind noise...
darrin_h2000
Banned
Are you guys kidding me...you only want an omni if you just want wind noise...thats why camcorder mics suck so much
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pezking
New member
Are you guys kidding me...you only want an omni if you just want wind noise...thats why camcorder mics suck so much
No that's more likely due to the size and quality of the capsule being used.
Omnidirectional mics are less susceptible to wind and handling noise. I'm fairly certain it's due to the same reasons that directional microphones experience the proximity effect (bass tip up). I'll see if I can find a technical explanation of this.
Just quickly though, read the bottom paragraph on this page: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/site/aa901ccabf1dfc6b/index.html/ just so you know it's not just me who's touting this crazy jibber jabber!
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
You might like to check out the Rode NT4:
http://www.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NT4
http://www.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NT4
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
What will you be recording on? If the recorder has only XLR inputs, the Rode NT4 mentioned above would be a good choice. If you are using something smaller for field recording, that has a stereo miniplug input, I like the Sony one point mic ECM-MS957. I haven't had much luck with cheaper one point stereo mics, but that one's a gem. I believe both mics come with wind screens, and you'll need one. Either mic will run on batteries, which is handy, even if your portable rig provides phantom power, as it will save your recorder's battery power. The Rode will plug into either XLR's or a miniplug jack. The SONY can be plugged into XLR's with the right adaptors, but it's a bit of a pain. Also note that the SONY is a mid-side stereo mic, which means on the final recording, you'll need to use both tracks, because they cancel out noise from each other. If you don't believe me, just listen to either track alone. It will truly suck. But- both tracks together, set at exactly the same gain, will sound lovely.-Richie
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darrin_h2000
Banned
That being said...doesnt he want to get the sounds and not the whole envirnment...what popped into my mind from the start is my PZM or the room measuring microphones I have...which are better at just picking up everything...so what he is really pointing at wont be the dominant thing on the track...How many times on location do you even see an omni mic on the end of a boom on a movie set?
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
While on the topic of Rode . . . if you only have a stereo miniplug, the Rode SVM works pretty well too:
http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--RODSVM
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pezking
New member
I'll be honest it's starting to seem like you're just shooting down what I say.
Anyway, he's not working on a movie set, he wants to record outdoor sounds. I personally would use a pair of spaced omnis for reasons stated by myself and other posters.
A pair of cardioids, or hypers, may well yield good results. However for the most natural sounding recordings, I would personally opt for the spaced omnis.
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beatbug
New member
Naiant mics?
There's a guy on this board who makes and sells inexpensive mics. He seems to be very knowledgeable. He could probably lead you in the right direction. His name is mshilarious, his mics are called Naiants.
There's a guy on this board who makes and sells inexpensive mics. He seems to be very knowledgeable. He could probably lead you in the right direction. His name is mshilarious, his mics are called Naiants.
dgatwood
is out. Leave a message.
You're forgetting three things: signal-to-noise ratios, proximity effect, and the inverse-square law.
First, when I talk about signal-to-noise ratio in this context, I'm not referring to electrical characteristics of the mic, but rather to the concept from a holistic perspective. What matters is not how much outside noise a mic picks up, but rather how much of the source sound it picks up relative to the sound of that background noise.
The second thing to keep in mind is proximity effect. You can place an omni mic much closer to the source without any bass boost from proximity effect You could put an omni mic an inch away from the source and it wouldn't be a problem.
Third, the inverse-square law means that the sound volume picked up from a nondirectional source falls off with the square of the distance. If you can cut the distance in half by using an omni mic, it is picking up 4x the sound from the source. Ignoring the area directly behind the mic, a cardioid cuts less than that from most directions. Thus, your signal-to-environmental-noise ratio can be better with omni mics if you can place them close enough to the sound source.
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
In this case, however, there is no source. Environmental noise is what the OP is trying to record.-Richie
leddy
Well-known member
You can get a used Crown SASS for around $400.
Beyond that I would probably consider some sort of mid-side rig. A Shure VP88 or something simple.
Beyond that I would probably consider some sort of mid-side rig. A Shure VP88 or something simple.
mshilarious
Banned
Quite a lot of misunderstanding here, but not by all.
Shotguns are used on booms on film sets specifically for isolation of desired sound (often dialogue) from ambient noise. Omni mics are also used all the time--as lapel mics. The goal of either approach is to maximum signal to noise by getting the mics close to the source. That's why the shotguns are on booms rather than 100ft away. No matter what polar pattern, signal to noise always rules.
Let's look at each source mentioned: rain. I don't think rain is a very directional source, so probably spaced omnis will rule that source.
Church bells, that depends a lot on distance. Anywhere close, they aren't going to sound very directional. At a medium distance, a cardioid might be worth a try. I probably wouldn't go shotgun due to the typically odd off-axis response. Far away, it's probably hopeless to try to isolate them with any technique.
Cars? Cars move, so I would rule out shotguns pretty fast. Other polar patterns are probably worth a shot.
You added one qualification to your needs that pretty much would reject shotguns: stereo. Shotguns are designed to have little off-axis response, and what is there is very inconsistent with respect to frequency response. So they aren't very successful in a coincident pair.
Wind noise can be an issue; omnis are something like 10dB less sensitive to wind than cardioids, and about 20dB less than figure-8. Hypers would be in between. If you're out on a windy day, an omni will be indicated--an unprotected omni is as resistant as a cardioid with a thick windscreen.
The last consideration is microphone self-noise when recording quieter sounds. You need a quiet mic for bird sounds or whatever, so the weensy small omnis I like probably aren't the best choice.
Overall, from mics I have used, I would pick a pair of Shure KSM141s, hands down. Low enough self-noise, switchable patterns, comes with a windscreen, sounds good on almost anything. Not very cheap though.
Below that, you should evaluate similar multipattern mics with diaphragms in the 1/2" range--Oktava, SP, MXL. I haven't used any of them, they have different capsules that must be swapped rather than switched as the KSM141. Other than that, I would think one of them would be a reasonable choice.
Shotguns are used on booms on film sets specifically for isolation of desired sound (often dialogue) from ambient noise. Omni mics are also used all the time--as lapel mics. The goal of either approach is to maximum signal to noise by getting the mics close to the source. That's why the shotguns are on booms rather than 100ft away. No matter what polar pattern, signal to noise always rules.
Let's look at each source mentioned: rain. I don't think rain is a very directional source, so probably spaced omnis will rule that source.
Church bells, that depends a lot on distance. Anywhere close, they aren't going to sound very directional. At a medium distance, a cardioid might be worth a try. I probably wouldn't go shotgun due to the typically odd off-axis response. Far away, it's probably hopeless to try to isolate them with any technique.
Cars? Cars move, so I would rule out shotguns pretty fast. Other polar patterns are probably worth a shot.
You added one qualification to your needs that pretty much would reject shotguns: stereo. Shotguns are designed to have little off-axis response, and what is there is very inconsistent with respect to frequency response. So they aren't very successful in a coincident pair.
Wind noise can be an issue; omnis are something like 10dB less sensitive to wind than cardioids, and about 20dB less than figure-8. Hypers would be in between. If you're out on a windy day, an omni will be indicated--an unprotected omni is as resistant as a cardioid with a thick windscreen.
The last consideration is microphone self-noise when recording quieter sounds. You need a quiet mic for bird sounds or whatever, so the weensy small omnis I like probably aren't the best choice.
Overall, from mics I have used, I would pick a pair of Shure KSM141s, hands down. Low enough self-noise, switchable patterns, comes with a windscreen, sounds good on almost anything. Not very cheap though.
Below that, you should evaluate similar multipattern mics with diaphragms in the 1/2" range--Oktava, SP, MXL. I haven't used any of them, they have different capsules that must be swapped rather than switched as the KSM141. Other than that, I would think one of them would be a reasonable choice.