What to rent for improved tracking?

[ggg1]

I use a Korg D32XD and intend to track in my room then upload at a pro studio to their Pro Tools system, possibly overdub vox and mix there (for a few demo recordings). I don't know much about this other than there are compressors and preamps and channel strips & such that are likely better than what's in the DAW. If I get a good mic-pre do I still need a channel strip/vocal processor or would some of that be overkill? This is Nashville so virtually any pro gear is easily rentable.

What gear (brand/model) would really improve my drum and instrument tracks over what I have and how do I hook it up (order?) What about vocals if I decide to track here? I have 1 large diaphragm AT mic so I'm open to renting a better mic(s) as well. In the past I've had trouble with powerful female singers distorting right at the mic. But the room I'm taking this to is nearly $1,000 per day so if I can get good trax here, it would save some $. Any suggestions would most definitely be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[BigRay]

better gear wont be worth a damn if you dont have the fundamental skillset.
use what you have or rent a good engineer.

I use a Korg D32XD and intend to track in my room then upload at a pro studio to their Pro Tools system, possibly overdub vox and mix there (for a few demo recordings). I don't know much about this other than there are compressors and preamps and channel strips & such that are likely better than what's in the DAW. If I get a good mic-pre do I still need a channel strip/vocal processor or would some of that be overkill? This is Nashville so virtually any pro gear is easily rentable.

What gear (brand/model) would really improve my drum and instrument tracks over what I have and how do I hook it up (order?) What about vocals if I decide to track here? I have 1 large diaphragm AT mic so I'm open to renting a better mic(s) as well. In the past I've had trouble with powerful female singers distorting right at the mic. But the room I'm taking this to is nearly $1,000 per day so if I can get good trax here, it would save some $. Any suggestions would most definitely be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[ggg1]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I get pretty good tracks now, I'm not new at this- been recording professionally (for $) for years but always either in a pro studio w/ engineer or just me and various DAW's with project budgets from $300 to $10,000. Often my end mixes are equal to or better than some of the lesser studio/engineer combos I've worked in (others opinions, not mine- my client's, fellow musicians, etc.). I'm just trying to get my tracking closer to what an engineer at a $1,000 per day room is used to working with so when I take him tracks to upload, they sound as good as possible. I intend to use this procedure on medium budget projects only.
I'm willing to rent for a week, a month or whatever then purchase any item I find helpful. Given time, I'll figure out how to use it. I think some sort of additional processing would be good, but should I use a DBX compressor, Avalon something or other? Neve Channel Strip? What?

I see the Avalon preamp looking stuff and channel strips that they are running in the larger places so I figured they don't have it there just for looks, it must enhance the signal enough to shell out the $ for it. And if I can't get what I want out of it, no biggie. Just need some pre-experiment direction on WHAT might be a good unit to at least try.

 

[peopleperson]

Put your money in preamps. Ray's totally right, it's all about your skill with simple tools, but if you're gonna throw money towards something, my two cents is to throw it at some of those higher end mic pre's you're seein.

 

[ssscientist]

I use a Korg D32XD and intend to track in my room then upload at a pro studio to their Pro Tools system, possibly overdub vox and mix there (for a few demo recordings).

If you have stated your goals correctly and are as competent at basic recording as you say, you have everything you need to make superlative demos at hand.

The studio will have a several vocal chains for you to compare side-by-side and a microphone selection to match --- that's what you'll be paying for. And they may even let you contract on an 'outside engineer' basis for a lower rate, and provide you with an assistant to help with tracking and mixdown.

If you're worried about what the engineer will say about your bedroom recorded tracks remember that you have your clients and fellow musicians praise already so you should have the confidence to show you work to a professional and if he or she is the evenhanded, non-jealous type they'll give you an honest assessment of what needs work and what sounds good.

Then you can go from there to your local pro audio rental shop with a blueprint based on your individual strengths and weaknesses --- which we all have.

.

 

[Robert D]

I'm not new at this- been recording professionally (for $) for years but always either in a pro studio w/ engineer or just me and various DAW's with project budgets from $300 to $10,000.

I think some sort of additional processing would be good, but should I use a DBX compressor, Avalon something or other? Neve Channel Strip? What?

....so I figured they don't have it there just for looks, it must enhance the signal enough to shell out the $ for it. And if I can't get what I want out of it, no biggie. Just need some pre-experiment direction on WHAT might be a good unit to at least try.

Dood, no offense, but this doesn't equate. Not knowing what you need to do a job, and saying you've been a pro for years doesn't make sense.

 

[ggg1]

I'll explain further I guess in the hopes that someone can name a model of Avalon preamp they've actually used w/ good results. Or something else that might be a good step up.

I never said I am a pro anything other than I guess I'm a pro producer of demos (1,500 client demos completed- most for VERY happy clients). That does not necessarily mean I'm a pro engineer, know much about outboard equipment or anything. When I produce higher budget projects I concentrate on getting the players to have groove, feel, tempo, etc. and get the vocals in pitch, pick where I want harmonies- you know produce. I see Avalon and other brands that obviously the vocals or instruments run through, but always left how they worked/what knobs to tweak up to the engineer.

Then I'd go back to a lower budget project where I plug a large diaphragm condensors, drum mics, etc. into the workstations XLR mic inputs and record, mix etc internally. I play some instruments myself and hire star quality drummers, etc. to play what I can't. But NOW I'm curious- can I get even better sound if i start to explore inserting some $2,000 pieces of equipment between the mics and DAW? Why do I want to? Because some demo budgets are well below the $800 per song or so it requires to hire star players and record/mix in a big studio w/ a great engineer. So...I thought on lower budget stuff I'd save $ by tracking instruments here (not in my bedroom btw, I have a small studio) then add vocals and do mixing at a big studio that has iso booths, huge rooms for great sounding drums and world class engineers.

I record demos for clients. Over 1,500 over the last many years. I've owned 4 track cassette machines, 8 track reel, 8 track digital, several types of 16 tracks and 32 track digital. But the outboard gear, sad to say, mystifies me. So do you see where I'm coming from? Perhaps it's pitiful but I just never got into the gear or engineering end until lately, just enough to get by and get the music on tape so to speak.

 

[Rokket]

I can see what you are looking for, and while I can't help you because ALL of my stuff is consumer rated -4dB stuff, I will tell you that just adding a $2000 pre amp here or $4000 compressor there won't get you what you are looking for. If you want big studio results it has to be from the start of the chain to the finished project ALL PRO STUFF. Also keep in mind the live rooms the big guys use, the monitoring chain, et al.
And if you have access to the big studios like you say you have, why aren't you down there bugging them instead of asking a bunch of home recorders?

 

[ggg1]

Also, since everyone's picking my words apart instead of giving me a straight answer may I ask this:

If it's not about equipment and all about "making the most of simple tools" why don't the engineers that get $300 and up per day down on Music Row toss those Avalon's and Neve consoles out the window and go buy Zoom digital 8 tracks and Radio Shack microphones to record major label albums on? That would seem to follow yet the opposite seems to be the rule among those guys. There seems to be some sort of correlation between quality equipment and getting good sounds. Even a dummy like me can see that's obvious.

And not to be a smart ass but how else am I supposed to learn to use the type of gear they do? Look at it for x number of years (it hasn't helped so far)? Wait for that "skill set" to develop by osmosis or something?

 

[Robert D]

I'll explain further I guess in the hopes that someone can name a model of Avalon preamp they've actually used w/ good results. Or something else that might be a good step up.

I never said I am a pro anything other than I guess I'm a pro producer of demos (1,500 client demos completed- most for VERY happy clients). That does not necessarily mean I'm a pro engineer, know much about outboard equipment or anything. When I produce higher budget projects I concentrate on getting the players to have groove, feel, tempo, etc. and get the vocals in pitch, pick where I want harmonies- you know produce. I see Avalon and other brands that obviously the vocals or instruments run through, but always left how they worked/what knobs to tweak up to the engineer.

Then I'd go back to a lower budget project where I plug a large diaphragm condensors, drum mics, etc. into the workstations XLR mic inputs and record, mix etc internally. I play some instruments myself and hire star quality drummers, etc. to play what I can't. But NOW I'm curious- can I get even better sound if i start to explore inserting some $2,000 pieces of equipment between the mics and DAW? Why do I want to? Because some demo budgets are well below the $800 per song or so it requires to hire star players and record/mix in a big studio w/ a great engineer. So...I thought on lower budget stuff I'd save $ by tracking instruments here (not in my bedroom btw, I have a small studio) then add vocals and do mixing at a big studio that has iso booths, huge rooms for great sounding drums and world class engineers.

I record demos for clients. Over 1,500 over the last many years. I've owned 4 track cassette machines, 8 track reel, 8 track digital, several types of 16 tracks and 32 track digital. But the outboard gear, sad to say, mystifies me. So do you see where I'm coming from? Perhaps it's pitiful but I just never got into the gear or engineering end until lately, just enough to get by and get the music on tape so to speak.

Got it. Just to explain, when you say "Ive been recording professionally for years", you are in fact saying you're a pro. That's different from saying your an expert.

As far as your question, I'd suggest you carefully evaluate whether your room acoustics supports creating tracks to mix in a $1000 a day facility before worrying about the gear. It is often the case where using more pristine preamps only reveals the deficiancies of the room.

 

[ggg1]

I do bug those big guys a little. But they aren't there to teach, when big $ are on the line we're all there to get it done, yesterday if possible, then on to the next client. Some are more approachable than others but if you've ever watched a good engineer work- they really pretty much hold the session together- always busy- not much idle time to b.s.

Sorry Rocket- I think you hit the nail on the head- I'm in the wrong place I guess. Is there a pro forum where I might receive more help?

 

[ggg1]

Now that is helpful. Yes, I'm a little concerned that my tracks will get on the big speakers and sound like crap, I think my room is okay- it conforms to The Golden Principle-I'm more worried that my monitors aren't as good as Genelecs or whatever and I may have crap I can't hear but that could probably be eq'd out?
My other concern is- if they are used to using an Avalon pre on drums and I come in without that done, it's pretty much impossible to fix that, right? It would have to be processed on the way in I think.

 

[ggg1]

btw- I've been checking out different studios around here for a long time and most of them are NOT professionally designed rooms, even name studios. The studios are built in old pharmacies, ex-living rooms, etc. Omni Sound is a converted place- it's obvious just looking around and it's $650 per day plus $300 for the engineer and I tried to book the project I'm on now there, but the A room- the huge main tracking room- was booked solid for over a month. Certainly acoustic treatment has been done but from what I've heard you can work with any room and get it to sound pretty good unless it's ridiculously small. And a big room is a big room- a very good thing to start with as it's not easy to enlarge a room. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[ggg1]

I understand the signal chain must be pro all the way. I'm recording at 96k/24 bit and have a good room, decent large diaphragm condensor, etc. I think with the right gear in between I just might get near big room results to the track point then I upload it and let the big boys take over.

Anyway, I'm out of here but I think you hit the nail on the head- I'm in the wrong place I guess. Is there a pro forum or place for pros where I might receive more help?

 

[scrubs]

Go right ahead:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/forums/

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/

Folks on those boards will generally have more experience with high-end gear, but I'd be surprised if you didn't get similar answers. Oh, and just because the name Avalon gets tossed around alot by guys who think they know audio, their mic preamps are generally regarded as rather mediocre for the price. There are much better options, unless you need the bling-factor of the Avalon.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Get an 8 channel rack by True Systems or API and you will have most of the bases covered and enough pres for a full drum kit. If you know how to use compressors a Distressor or 1176 can be handy.

 

[ggg1]

Thanks, that's helpful. I''ll do that.