M
Metal Marc
Pretend Action Guy (PAG)
Start off by grabbing a pair of Tung-Sols, even the regular pair. They're definitely an improvement over those stock crapsters. You'll like the Tung-Sols in your MPA Gold. They're great tubes.
Start off by grabbing a pair of Tung-Sols, even the regular pair. They're definitely an improvement over those stock crapsters. You'll like the Tung-Sols in your MPA Gold. They're great tubes.
BeniRose
New member
But the JANs are cheaper...and NOS...and creeaaaaammyyy. 
Haha, I was thinking it might be best for me to start with a proper 12AX7 as well, so I'll get those Tung-Sols, then move on from there (probably to the JANS, but who knows really?) Thanks for all your advice guys, let's hope the next poor fool who wants to replace the tubes in his MPA stumbles across this thread so he doesn't have to open the can of worms I did!
Haha, I was thinking it might be best for me to start with a proper 12AX7 as well, so I'll get those Tung-Sols, then move on from there (probably to the JANS, but who knows really?) Thanks for all your advice guys, let's hope the next poor fool who wants to replace the tubes in his MPA stumbles across this thread so he doesn't have to open the can of worms I did!
BeniRose
New member
Oh last thing I promise. I'm assuming everyone strongly recommends the Gold Pins? I could get two standard tubes for the price of one Gold Pin, which would be nice since I'm really just trying some different sounds out here, but if it's really going to make a big difference, I'll get the Gold Pins.
mamm7215
Member
Gold pins are a gimmick. They cost more because it's actually GOLD plating on the pins. Gold is good to have if your sockets also have gold plated connections to match the gold pins, otherwise the socket connections are likely silver/zinc/nickel or something. The problem with this is when you have connections with 2 different metals passing electrical current, eventually you get CORROSION, in which case your gold pins have actually caused problems. I'm pretty sure the MPA doesn't have gold plated tube sockets.
homestudioguy
Well-known member
The Gold Pins help with oxidation reduction and longevity in part but they wont make much difference on what the tube is doing.
Get the cheaper TungSols at $12.95 or so and GET RECORDING!!!
M
Metal Marc
Pretend Action Guy (PAG)
Oops...lame
I didn't see or realize there were two different type of Tung-Sol 12AX7's. Actually, I saw THREE different TS 12AX7's. I didn't realize the ones for $13 aren't the gold-plated ones. Thanks for calling that out, fellas.
Yeah, Beni...like the man said, buy a pair for $26 and get crackin'!
I didn't see or realize there were two different type of Tung-Sol 12AX7's. Actually, I saw THREE different TS 12AX7's. I didn't realize the ones for $13 aren't the gold-plated ones. Thanks for calling that out, fellas.
Yeah, Beni...like the man said, buy a pair for $26 and get crackin'!
cavedog101
Well-known member
The 'crew' at www.eurotubes.com is extremely knowledgeable and are very helpful.
Local to me. And all my 'crew' gets their stuff there.
Local to me. And all my 'crew' gets their stuff there.
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
Haha...there's soooooo much dodgyness, myth, bullshit, speculation, disinformation and just good old general clusterfuckedness associated with the whole 'tube' scene.
BeniRose
New member
Rad, that's what I wanted to hear! I can shell out the 30 bucks no problem, but any more and I would've had to put it on hold for a bit cause all my bills are all due and I'd have to see how much I had after I paid them all. Thanks guys!!
dkelley
Active member
for what it's worth.
owned an mpa gold, loved it to pieces. stock tubes sounded great. swapped them out of course, experimented, the differences in sound AS LONG AS THE GAIN SPECS WERE THE SAME (!) were sooooo subtle. existent, but very very subtle. FAR more subtle than the fact that the mpa gold overall has a sound, regardless of the tubes being used, and that sound is golden. slightly middy in a very good way. changing the tubes with expensive NOS tubes rated with the same gain resulted in only very tiny differences and honestly in the recordings I used to test it with (and I did some visual analysis as well at the time) the changes were very very small, so much so that one would have a hard to impossible time picking them out in a single track of a mix. used for multiple tracks of course though you will gradually emphasise those subtle differences, but again it will be a very small amount.
And mostly - did it sound "better"? not really. not unless I pushed it into distortion of the tube circuit. THEN it did sound better with better tubes (which makes sense, similar to guitar amp overdrive with different tubes). but I generally don't use my preamps like that, so it ended up being a moot point.
I went back to stock tubes and was very very happy.
now of course, since most people are changing the gain structure when they swap tubes, they're hearing differences in the circuit and probably the level in general and it can change the tone in other ways since the mpa gold has lots of SS stuff through as well that interacts with the tube gain part. So people are definitely hearing stronger differences, and whether it's the tube or what the tube is doing to hte rest of the circuit, who cares? the tube changes the tone. I just always like to understand WHY
, which is why I posted this.
anyway, in the long run I only sold it due to financial crisis at one point, now I want an MPA GOLD again dammit LoL
PS - I'm borrowing an amazing ward beck 460 pre from a friend, incredible, based on a neve design but with differences. best pre I've used, and I used to own an API. But the mpa gold used to give me that magic as well. for it's price it's unbelievable, don't worry so much about tubes, get them if/when you can, the difference will be small but nice.
For now just make music with the thing man!
Cheers,
Don
owned an mpa gold, loved it to pieces. stock tubes sounded great. swapped them out of course, experimented, the differences in sound AS LONG AS THE GAIN SPECS WERE THE SAME (!) were sooooo subtle. existent, but very very subtle. FAR more subtle than the fact that the mpa gold overall has a sound, regardless of the tubes being used, and that sound is golden. slightly middy in a very good way. changing the tubes with expensive NOS tubes rated with the same gain resulted in only very tiny differences and honestly in the recordings I used to test it with (and I did some visual analysis as well at the time) the changes were very very small, so much so that one would have a hard to impossible time picking them out in a single track of a mix. used for multiple tracks of course though you will gradually emphasise those subtle differences, but again it will be a very small amount.
And mostly - did it sound "better"? not really. not unless I pushed it into distortion of the tube circuit. THEN it did sound better with better tubes (which makes sense, similar to guitar amp overdrive with different tubes). but I generally don't use my preamps like that, so it ended up being a moot point.
I went back to stock tubes and was very very happy.
now of course, since most people are changing the gain structure when they swap tubes, they're hearing differences in the circuit and probably the level in general and it can change the tone in other ways since the mpa gold has lots of SS stuff through as well that interacts with the tube gain part. So people are definitely hearing stronger differences, and whether it's the tube or what the tube is doing to hte rest of the circuit, who cares? the tube changes the tone. I just always like to understand WHY
, which is why I posted this.anyway, in the long run I only sold it due to financial crisis at one point, now I want an MPA GOLD again dammit LoL
PS - I'm borrowing an amazing ward beck 460 pre from a friend, incredible, based on a neve design but with differences. best pre I've used, and I used to own an API. But the mpa gold used to give me that magic as well. for it's price it's unbelievable, don't worry so much about tubes, get them if/when you can, the difference will be small but nice.
For now just make music with the thing man!
Cheers,
Don
Monkey Allen
Fork and spoon operator
I'm keeping the stock tubes. In 10 years they'll be classics and the new Chinese stock type tubes will have degenerated even further in quailty...plus they'll be new, new, new and not dripping in the priceless nostaligia that everyone pays so much for.
antichef
pornk rock
I lucked into a Mullard 12AU7 at the local tube store, but don't have any of the 12AT7s. When I compare to a US made GE 12AU7 in a microphone (which is where I'm using these), the Mullard is a *little* hissier, and less precise sounding, but good. I don't know if/how that translates to the 12AT7s (or even to other 12AU7s!)
Last night, after two weeks of mourning and hand wringing, I was able to revive my Digital MPA (yay!!) - some info on the opamps is in my thread in the DIY forum - the short of it: the action is really with the tube swap, and not the opamp swap, IMO (and I really should do a thorough scope-assisted evaluation of what I did anyway).
With all this picking at my Digital MPA, one thing became more clear to me - the #1 source of noise/hiss in my unit is the tubes. It's not that bad, but when I disengage the tube section, the thing is dead quiet. My 12AT7s (that is, the ones I settled on after testing like 20 of them) are kind of hissy, but not too bad. I guess my message is that if you plan to use a low output mic, like a SM7b, and apply compression, which will raise the noise level, then the noisiness of the tubes is a paramount concern.
Unfortunately, I've never seen a noise rating on particular tubes -- the only way to know is to get them and test - especially true of NOS and unbranded Chinese (which often have other issues, of course, like sounding like a$$). Different models and brands of NOS developed reputations for being quiet, but I'm not the best person to ask.
12AT7s are generally *not* considered very quiet, and in my experience, many of them hiss quite a bit. 6072a (as opposed to 12AY7 or even 6072) are supposed to be quiet, but are usually harder to come by.
Last night, after two weeks of mourning and hand wringing, I was able to revive my Digital MPA (yay!!
) - some info on the opamps is in my thread in the DIY forum - the short of it: the action is really with the tube swap, and not the opamp swap, IMO (and I really should do a thorough scope-assisted evaluation of what I did anyway).With all this picking at my Digital MPA, one thing became more clear to me - the #1 source of noise/hiss in my unit is the tubes. It's not that bad, but when I disengage the tube section, the thing is dead quiet. My 12AT7s (that is, the ones I settled on after testing like 20 of them) are kind of hissy, but not too bad. I guess my message is that if you plan to use a low output mic, like a SM7b, and apply compression, which will raise the noise level, then the noisiness of the tubes is a paramount concern.
Unfortunately, I've never seen a noise rating on particular tubes -- the only way to know is to get them and test - especially true of NOS and unbranded Chinese (which often have other issues, of course, like sounding like a$$). Different models and brands of NOS developed reputations for being quiet, but I'm not the best person to ask.
12AT7s are generally *not* considered very quiet, and in my experience, many of them hiss quite a bit. 6072a (as opposed to 12AY7 or even 6072) are supposed to be quiet, but are usually harder to come by.
M
MOFO Pro
Opinions are like SM-57s
What to do with my Art MPA Gold
Sorry, but every time I see this title I think
Sorry, but every time I see this title I think
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2000Z28M6
New member
GOod for you man...Just want to mention again that the MPA was designed for 12AX7A tubes, yes the 12AT7s will work but will give you a lower output. So in the end you are trying to squeeze more level out of the tubes, hence where the hiss and extra noise might be coming from. You should try a 12AX7A and see if you still see the same amount of noise and hiss.
I'm guessing with the right brand 12AT7 you could probably have something different to the 12AX7A. It would be a very cool setup up. CH1 12AX7A nice clean punch. CH2 smoother tone with 12AT7s.
Anyway, I will eventfully try some 12AT7. but I'm digging the sound it has with the 12AX7As.
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mamm7215
Member
YES, TO RE-ITERATE, YOU HAVE TO USE 12AX7'S IN THE MPA GOLD AND DIGITAL MPA IF YOU WANT THE BEST GAIN, LOWEST NOISE!!!!!!
Sorry, how many times does it have to be said. It's a 12ax7 circuit.
Sorry, how many times does it have to be said. It's a 12ax7 circuit.
antichef
pornk rock
Good NOS 12AX7s are expensive
-- that's really it -- the other designations do lower the gain, and usually increase the noise, but they can also sound very nice, and they're much cheaper. I've used new JJs and new Tung Sol 12AX7s and, yes - more gain, and quieter, but they don't sound as good to me as *some* of the older tubes
mamm7215
Member
Good NOS 12AX7s are expensive
+1 Yes, the NOS tubes (Mullards in my case) do sound "better". At least to me and I've tried a few through it. I did like the JJ's. Better than stock but kinda clean/neutral but ok. Mullards a little darker more depth?? But the JJ's were ok. And you can get the 12ax7's from JJ - eurotubes (ECC83). But honestly, if I were to try something else, it would be a Great River or A-Designs Pacifica! If you're THAT concerned about pre-amps just save up for a few months/years and get a good one once and for all. If you need to deal with a budget (like me and many others) don't sweat it. The MPA Gold/Digital MPA are as good as you're going to get at this price range (as well as DMP3, etc.) Your music won't suck because of this pre.
dkelley
Active member
DrewPeterson7
Sage of the Order
So, this is a pretty well-regarded pre around here, I take it...?
(I'm kind of in the market for another pre, my Presonus BlueTube DSP isn't bad, but, well, options are fun and it could probably be better).
(I'm kind of in the market for another pre, my Presonus BlueTube DSP isn't bad, but, well, options are fun and it could probably be better).
antichef
pornk rock
Yes - at that price point, it's a slam dunk, IMO.