saads
Baka
I want to make a recording studio, with a control room and a playing room, with soundproofing and the glass in between and all. The drums will be recorded live. The budget is $5,000. Is that possible? What should i get? Thanks in advance.
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Weasel9992
New member
No, not given the scope of the project...not even remotely close. Multiply your budget by 10 and you've got a good starting point for a couple of small rooms with an existing shell. Sorry to be so blunt, but I'd hate to have you start a project like that and run out of money just about the time you'd realize how far off the mark you were...
Frank
saads
Baka
Not even one room and a little bit of glass, and none of the high end stuff? haha
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Wolfram
New member
What have you got so far?
saads
Baka
A place, a drum kit, guitars, amps, a couple of dynamic mics, an m audio condenser, a 2 input pre amp, thats about it. I thought i could get a few more mics, a decent mixer, some acoustic arrangements etc. in a few thousand. No chance?
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dintymoore
Guest
Yes, it won't be your dream studio.
Buy everything used, do all the work yourself, use stuff you get for free.
Lots of great music has been made with a lot less.
Thinking out loud, if I was broke and had to get up and running for $5K I'd buy:
Apple G4 computer $150
Cubase LE free
computer monitor free
a few sets of Sony stereo speakers free
Delta 1010LT card $100
used receiver to power monitors $50
Presonus Blue Tube mic pre $100
NS10M's $800
2 SM57's $150
1 U87 $1500
2 KM84's $1600
Presonus Comp16 $80
homemade subwoofer setup $150
that's around $5K... a few of those things like the NS10M's and the Neumanns I could not do without. Most people spend tons more on the computer and b.s. and end up buying $150 mics from M-Audio.
Main thing missing is a T.C. Electronics Finalizer, which I'm used to but it would top the $5K limit.
Notice that the beginning and the end of my chain is top pro-quality. Do not waste time with crap transducers because that's what you hear the most.
I'd forget the typical soundproofing and use make my own. I'd try to make it look as unlike a studio as I could. Just a place for friends to hang. Use natural organics as much as you can, and by that I mean stuff like woven place mats and woven straw floor mats for wall treatment. The basic rule is tap everything you bring in the room and if it doesn't sound good - throw it out!
For me I'd forget the two rooms with a window, that's so old, just make it one big room, the more it looks like a living room with lamps and sofa's the better, make no attempt to isolate the instruments and accept the bleed.
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gethypedmusic
You Have No Idea.....
Some nice gear youve got there so far. I wish you the best of luck but im sure youll have to answer alot more questions before they can help you with your original lol
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Weasel9992
New member
If we're talking about an $5,000 in gear, then sure...you can do that. The OP isn't talking about acoustic treatment though...he's talking about real soundproofing, and given the scope of the work...no way. Not even if he does every stitch of labor himself. There's more than $5,000 worth of materials in that job, and that doesn't count a single piece of gear.
Frank
Frank
saads
Baka
Thanks for the input guys, I should also add that essentially I'm a drummer, so micing the drums is very important to me.
@moore, you're pretty big on the mics haha, I hadn't really pictured getting any Neumanns this soon, sure thats a good idea? And i say that purely as a question, I'm not saying its a bad idea. You didn't mention a mixer? I was thinking about a Behringer 10 input or maybe a Firepod ? No?
And Frank, for acoustics maybe if i just use foam and DIY bass traps that could save me a lot of money? I'm not trying to make a super nice studio, i realize 5k is not a lot at all, but it's all I have, and i really want this. So if anyone has ideas that would be super. Thanks!
@moore, you're pretty big on the mics haha, I hadn't really pictured getting any Neumanns this soon, sure thats a good idea? And i say that purely as a question, I'm not saying its a bad idea. You didn't mention a mixer? I was thinking about a Behringer 10 input or maybe a Firepod ? No?
And Frank, for acoustics maybe if i just use foam and DIY bass traps that could save me a lot of money? I'm not trying to make a super nice studio, i realize 5k is not a lot at all, but it's all I have, and i really want this. So if anyone has ideas that would be super. Thanks!
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Weasel9992
New member
That's the part that I'm concerned about. You can definitely do the acoustic treatment for a few hundred bucks if you DIY it, but the way you wrote that above makes me think that you have to build a wall with glass taking sound proofing (completely different than acoustic treatment) into account. Sound proofing is a discipline aimed at keeping noise in and/or out of a particular space, and that's accomplished using mass...an extra stud wall layer, extra sheet rock, isolation clips, etc. Furthermore, every step is dependent on the last. If you screw one step up (or one area up), you've just shot a bit hole in the entire job. To make matters worse, the better the sound proofing is the worse the room will sound inside because low end can't escape anywhere.
You need to define much more precisely what you want to accomplish. If it's just to a start on some gear and acoustic treatment, then $5,000 will get you there. If it's a live room/control room adequately sound proofed, plus gear plus acoustic treatment, then $5,000 is probably 20% of what you'd need to make a good start on it.
Frank
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dintymoore
Guest
I'm a drummer too, so I'm with you on the quality.
That list is what I'd do with $5K. Yes I'd buy Neumanns because the rest I can figure out some other way and they're the only ones that work for vox & cymbals for me, and within 5K they would fit.
I'd forget what everybody says about all this acoustic treatment from Musician's Friends type stores and just use your ears - it's not that hard if you're used to tweaking drums, just think of the room as a drum.
I don't use physical mixers - haven't for 20 years... well I do have two DMP11's but the controls stay flat and no panning or anything... just routing and sometimes for reverb or delay.
The mixer in Cubase LE is great and all you should need. Any of these cheap mixers will degrade the sound more than they're worth, I wouldn't bother with them, that's just me.
The glass window will be horrible sonically and there's not much you can do about it. I made a glass sliding door in my small studio so I could record on one side and mix on the other and I hate the sound of the glass, the door has stayed off all the time and wish I hadn't done it.
My concept is from an old Les Paul interview where he said that if he made a new studio it wouldn't look like a studio but a living room with sofas and lamps. To me that's way hipper and futuristic.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
How big is the space you have allocated for your studio?
You may not need (or even be able to) have a seperate control room and recording space.
Personally...I don't see a real need for a dedicated control room in most typcial project/personal studio settings.
I'll take a bigger, open room every time over two smaller closed-in boxes.
You may not need (or even be able to) have a seperate control room and recording space.
Personally...I don't see a real need for a dedicated control room in most typcial project/personal studio settings.
I'll take a bigger, open room every time over two smaller closed-in boxes.
saads
Baka
Haha yeah i guess i was making it sound like i wanted a professional studio, but no that's not the case. Everyone here so far seems to be against a control room and a live room, honestly i just wanted it that way because it looks cool and i thought that would be the way to go to get the best sound, but if you guys say one room is better, then i'll stick to one room. You asked what i was aiming for, i play music and am really interested in recording it too. I have a lot of friends who are into music too, so i wanted to turn the 'jam room' into a studio where we could hang out and record too. Secondly, i moved out of the USA a while back, and where i am now, there aren't many good recording studios. There are only 2 studios here that record live drums,(the rest just throw in sequenced drums) and this place is the size of Florida. The general understanding here is that drums are always sequenced and very rarely recorded live. So i was also hoping to make some money off of the studio by offering people a good, cheaper alternative as compared to other pricey studios. I know recording is obviously an art, you can't just start right away and expect a great sound.Initially i plan to experiment (A lot) and then eventually start recording for other people. Hope this gives you an idea of what i have in mind. Thanks 
Jeff_D
New member
$5k wont get you a soundproof multi-room studio, but it'll get you a very nice start for sure. My studio space is one big open room. I think you'll generally get a better sound out of a larger space. I'd save some of those construction costs for now.
I'd start by allocating a decent chunk to acoutstic treatments- basstraps, rigid fiberglass, portable gobos, etc. Say, $600ish . (Stay away from foam anything)
Soundproofing (not the same as acoustic treatment) can get VERY expensive depending on where your space is and what you're trying to isolate yourself from (i.e. footsteps from above, screaming neighbors outside, or neighbors that dont want to hear you). This could be boarding over a few windows, or layers of sheet rock on the ceiling and walls. Costs can add up quick ~ $0 to $100,000usd.
You'll also need...
Computer - Build a windows PC for ~ $500 or use the one you already have
Software- Reaper ~ $60 Awesome software
Interface- you need to decide how many channels you need and what quality you're willing to pay for. The most popular now are firewire based and generally have mic preamps on board. Spend $500 ~ $1500+
Monitors- Don't bother if you aren't willing to spend over $500+
Mics- holy shit, this could fill an entire bbs
. For drums, you'll want at least a pair of sd condensers for overheads, some nice dynamics for individual drums a good dedicated kick mic, plus a few for guitar cabinets and a decent ld conderser for vocals~ lets say $2000 to start. You'll have plenty of time to add more mics to your locker as you go.
Add in cables and you'll be close to ~$5k.
...and in response to Dinty above- I wouldn't drop that kind of cheese on a Nueman if I was just going to plug it into a $100 Presonus preamp and route it through a 1010lt (I have 2 1010lt's btw). I think his priorities are a little out of whack.
I'd start by allocating a decent chunk to acoutstic treatments- basstraps, rigid fiberglass, portable gobos, etc. Say, $600ish . (Stay away from foam anything)
Soundproofing (not the same as acoustic treatment) can get VERY expensive depending on where your space is and what you're trying to isolate yourself from (i.e. footsteps from above, screaming neighbors outside, or neighbors that dont want to hear you). This could be boarding over a few windows, or layers of sheet rock on the ceiling and walls. Costs can add up quick ~ $0 to $100,000usd.
You'll also need...
Computer - Build a windows PC for ~ $500 or use the one you already have
Software- Reaper ~ $60 Awesome software
Interface- you need to decide how many channels you need and what quality you're willing to pay for. The most popular now are firewire based and generally have mic preamps on board. Spend $500 ~ $1500+
Monitors- Don't bother if you aren't willing to spend over $500+
Mics- holy shit, this could fill an entire bbs
. For drums, you'll want at least a pair of sd condensers for overheads, some nice dynamics for individual drums a good dedicated kick mic, plus a few for guitar cabinets and a decent ld conderser for vocals~ lets say $2000 to start. You'll have plenty of time to add more mics to your locker as you go. Add in cables and you'll be close to ~$5k.
...and in response to Dinty above- I wouldn't drop that kind of cheese on a Nueman if I was just going to plug it into a $100 Presonus preamp and route it through a 1010lt (I have 2 1010lt's btw). I think his priorities are a little out of whack.
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Weasel9992
New member
I have to say, I completely agree. I'd saying anything with "Neuman" is way down the list in terms of priorities. I'll take and SM57>Great River chain in a good room with decent coverters over a Neuman>presonus chain with neither of those two things any day.
Frank
saads
Baka
Alright so i'm definitely dropping the 2 room idea, no one seems to be for it. Should i use a mixer or an interface? I was thinking about a Behringer 24 input, but will i really ever need that many inputs? Even if i'm recording the entire band (8 for the drummer, 3 vocal mics, 1 bass, 2 guitars) that makes 14 max. Plus i've heard bad stuff about Behringer's quality. Or i could just go with an interface, like Pre Sonus and use the recording software mixer (like moore suggested). Any ideas on that? What do/would you guys do?
Jeff_D
New member
Until you are ready to drop a LOT of money on a mixer and seprate sound card, I think your best bang for the buck will be an interface like the PreSonus FireStudio or the Motu 8pre. I like the looks of the 8pre because of the ADAT option for expandability.
I wouldn't even consider the Behringer mixer. If you *need* a mixer look at stuff from Soundcraft or Allen and Heath.
I love Reaper for software. http://www.reaper.fm/
You cant go wrong with that for any price.
saads
Baka
The Firestudio and the Motu are 8 input, i was hoping for a 12-16 input, incase i need to record the entire band. You're right, the Motu expandability thing is cool, do you suggest getting 2 of those and 'joining' them? (Won't that cost me over a grand though...) And just out of curiosity, why would you not go for the Behringer? What attracted me was how much more they offer in the same price, but then again, i guess cheap has more than one meaning for a reason
Jeff_D
New member
The Firestudio and the Motu are 8 input, i was hoping for a 12-16 input, incase i need to record the entire band. You're right, the Motu expandability thing is cool, do you suggest getting 2 of those and 'joining' them? (Won't that cost me over a grand though...) And just out of curiosity, why would you not go for the Behringer? What attracted me was how much more they offer in the same price, but then again, i guess cheap has more than one meaning for a reason
yeah, the 8pre's got for about $550 a piece. I bet if you went into your local music store you could probly get them to knock off a few bucks if you bought two.
...or, you could get one 8Pre and get a Presunus D8 8 channel mic pre... http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...80227&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=143492796
You can plug the D8 into the 8pre and the 8pre into your computer and get 16 channels.
My recording situation is much the same as your - whole band w/ drums at once. Right now I have (2) Delta 1010lt cards- one fed from my Soundcraft M8 and the other fed from a Presonus D8. My plan is to lose the 2 deltas and get a 8pre to replace them.
Behringer stuff is cheap all around. I'd expect poor build quality and less than stellar sound. I'd rather have a "one-trick pony" that does one thing very well than have a piece of gear that does everything and sucks at all of it.
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