What room treatment do I need?

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stay gray

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Hey guys, this is my first post, and this site looks very cool and informative...

Stuff at hand:
se2000a and se reflection filter pro-
rnp-
presonus bluemax comp-
2 cad gxl-1200-
mxl 67g-
sm58-
delta 24/96 card?...(Can't remember for sure)
-mackie onyx blackjack usb-
adobe audition 1.5 full version-
tannoy reveal monitors-
amr 200 amp for monitors

I'm in a 10 x 10 8ft ceiling room
Only want to track vocals and acoustic guitar, everything else is computerized, or sansamp-ed Again I just want to track, then mix down at a real studio somewhere.

The se reflexion filter pro came in a package deal with the 2000a. I've been trying to find out how to set up the se reflection filter and (The main question is)..."Is any acoustic wall or corner treatment behind me going to be beneficial,and if so how would I set it up?"
I've been reading about bass traps and such, but really don't have a clue about room acoustics.
As for vocals I just want something clean/dry and add compression and other fx at the future studio.

Thank you very much for your time, and if you have any similar posts (or already answered in another) i'd be very grateful if you could point me in that direction :-).

Cheers
 
Not only is corner trapping vital in any space, it's 5 times as vital in YOUR space. 10x10x8 is an acoustical nightmare of epic proportions.

If it makes a difference - I've set up a few rooms that size (or ridiculously close) and it took 12 (2'x4'x4") traps just to make a reasonable dent in the horrific peaks and null points inherent to a space that size. And these are peaks and nulls that lie in the fundamentals of what you're recording.

So yes - Corner treatment (especially corners and high sides) -- broadband panels - no foam - is going to be not only beneficial, it's going to be a necessity.
 
Thanks for the reply
Sounds like I need enough traps to effectively build a room inside the room! I was hoping I could just do some sort of treatment to isolate and track in one corner of the room- only to add to the effectiveness of the se reflection filter pro.
I don't have much gear, and there is another 14 x 10 8ft ceiling room I could move to. Is that more favorable?
 
stay gray said:
track in one corner of the room
Click to expand...
Am I quoting that out of context, or do you really mean you want to track in the corner of the room?

If it is what you mean, you don't want to do that. A corner is the worst place to track. If it's not what you meant, I apologize.
 
I've got a room with similar dimensions. I use it for recording vocals and acoustic also, and mixing. Because I am mixing in it, I have a lot of rigid fiberglass board; OC703 and Johns Manville equivalent; 13 panels. I think with a one room studio, there is a trade-off between setting it up for recording and setting it up for mixing. With a room this small, I'll never get a good recording ambience from the room, so I made it very dead to get better mixes.

I think even if you won't be mixing in the room, you'll still need to make it as dead as possible, because you just won't be able to make it a good recording room. The room will have big peaks at around 500hz. So make it as dead as possible and add artificial ambience in during mixing with the use of effects.

imho...
 
Rami,
Was thinking of somehow treating the corner at my back and facing towards the middle of the room with the reflection filter to my front. Maybe i'm putting too much faith in the reflection filter?

So would treating the 14 x 10 be harder or easier? I'm just getting setup...so i'm open to whatever suggestions you all have.

Looks like the panels are going to be essential in whatever I do?
Chili, did you do the rigid fiberglass boards yourself? I've started googling around and seeing some plans.
What's the best I can do for under $500?

Thanks again for the input...
 
My two cents: if it's not a "nice room" (ie wood floors, high ceilings, blah blah), just deaden it. See if you can find some Ultra Touch cotton insulation made by Bonded Logic. It's easier to handle than the fiberglass, it's much easier to find, and has a nearly identical absorption coefficient. Maybe make some small frames with 2X4s or get some burlap material, pull it over the insulation, and staple it into the walls to hold it in place. The reflection filter can go anywhere, right? I mean, isn't that the point?

Speaking of walls, position your desk symmetrically within the room. Sit in your chair and put insulation up on the first reflection points - that is, the places on all four walls (and the ceiling) where you could place a mirror and see your monitors reflected. After that, afix more insulation in the corners for bass traps.

If you do it this way, you'll come out well under $500, maybe even under $150, and then you can spend the leftover money on more fun things :)
 
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Thanks for that funnygames,
I'm checking out some sites that carry it, what R factor did you use?
 
I used R-13 for most of it because it's thin enough (3.5") to fit in a 2X4 frame and light enough to staple to the walls with a staple gun. It looks like the R-19 (5.5" thick) is a little bit cheaper but any bigger than that would be a huge pain and more expensive.
 
Also, look on BL's site for a list of distributors. There might be one in your area.
 
heres a good tip, theres a cmpany called `auralex`its american based, but has distributers over here.

on their website it has a `free personalized room analysis` (left hand side of home page)

and it really is free!
you can download the pdf ,then you just draw a full picture of your room with dimensins, furniture placemant etc. fill in the form with as much detail as possible make sure you say what type of recording yur doing and what sort of gear you have, and send it back to them.

they will reply with a detailed plan of acoustic treatment and foam placement!!! all for free!

this is obviouslsy in hope that you then go and purchase their acoustic panels, bass traps and differs etc from themselves.

but you can just use the plan as an idea of what your room needs, and work out a substiitute material or idea depending on your budget :-)

hope this helps

E
 
Auralex makes some of the better acoustic foam out there and their prices can't be beat -- but they specialize in foam and the last thing this guy needs is foam.
 
I think for $500, you can get a lot. I spent about $150 for mine. Made them all myself, I skipped the wood frames and just covered them in fabric. Cheap discount bin at Walmart; $1.50 per linear yard (46" wide). Here's the thread for my room. You'll see how I made the panels about halfway down.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/studio-building-display/studio-garage-279814/

And seeing as how we are talking about room treatment, I'm moving this thread to the Studio Build forum.

Aslo, check out Ethan Winer's site Ethan Winer - Home Page I believe he has a room calculator where you plug in your dimensions and it will tell you where the peaks and voids will be for the freq response. Plus, he has some good articles on how to set up your room.
 
Grey,

Treat your room. That will be the best investment you can make in your studio. See my publications page for more tips as well as Realtraps and GIK articles. I have several spreadsheet applications that will help you with panel placement and info about your room dimensions.

You need treatment behind the singer or vocalist - not in front (behind the cardioid pattern microphone). The idea that people need a tiny absorption panel behind a cardioid pattern microphone is stupid and simply a marketing 'trick'. - You will also notice that SE Reflexion filter site is on my VooDoo list.

Cheers,
John
 
I'd go DIY with Superchunks, and as many 4' x 2' x 4" panels of rigid fiberglass as you can afford. I'd also be looking at picking up some quality dynamic mics.
 
Everyone has been very helpful here, thanks! Ok, I've been reading all weekend. John, your articles and post replies (thanks much for your time!) and a bunch of Ethans.

I found a local insulation company that had IIG 1280 4' x 2'x 4" min wool in stock, so I brought home enough panels to do the corners. (I already made the mistake of nudging one of the 3-packs along with my knee, and haven't even removed them from the pack yet...) I'll get to the rest of the room after this.

John, on a side note, I'm glad you grabbed my attention about the SE reflexion filter, guess I was buying into the hype... Haven't opened the pkg yet, so i'll go ahead and return it. Haven't even spent half of it's cost on the insulation yet!
 
;) good going! I wish you very best!

Keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers,
John
 
Supercreep,
"some quality dynamic mics"
Like the EV or SM-7? Wondering which ones you're referring to? Is it because if deadening the small room, dynamics will somehow be more beneficial than condensers? Is it a bad idea to use a condenser in a deadened room? Just curious to your line of thinking. Personal preference, or are you just talking about getting a variety of diff. mics for diff. applications?

I certainly don't want to end up starting yet another mic thread, but I am interested in knowing how mic selection pertains to the room type i'll be working in? Again, I am mostly tracking vocals and a little acoustic guitar. Anyone else have thoughts on the matter?

Peace
 
I think he means because they're (the RE20 and SM7b, although I'm personally partial to the 7b) two of the most popular and wonderful vocal mics ever designed at any price and no studio, no matter how small, should be without one.
 
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