What is your microphone measuring stick?

S

Shindiggety

New member
Let me explain, perhaps that was a bad choice of title.

Here's the hypothetical;
You are given the task of reviewing a mic. Let's even say it's a budget mic.
Your task is to provide a clear evaluation of the mics characteristic and abilities and present it to the world of home-recorders.
The best way to do that would most likely be a side-by-side comparison to a well-known, tried-and-true, quality Microphone. Correct?
Which mic would you choose to compare it to? Ideally it would be a mic most people know well, and a mic anybody could get (think availability, not cost).
For example: "Here is how this instrument dynamic (X) compares to a Shure sm57 (Y)" or "Here is how this Large Diaphragm Condenser(X) compares to an AT-2020(Y)".

Assume this hypothetical for:
- Handheld Dynamic
- Large Diaphragm Condenser
- Small Diaphragm Condenser
- Ribbon
- Drum mic (Kick)
- Drum mic (Tom)

Which Mics would you choose?

*** Cost is not a factor, it's more important that the mic is a widely known microphone with plenty of resources or documentation and is currently in production ***

As a side note, what is your opinion? Would it be more beneficial to compare a budget mic against another budget mic? Or would people get a better idea of the microphone comparing against a truly high quality mic?

Apologies for the lengthy post :rolleyes:
 
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It is basically impossible to compare two microphones without giving a personal opinion. Yeah, the specs may show some distinguishing characteristic but in the end it all comes down to what the user uses it for, with what gear, and what they like or dislike about the sound of it on any particular source.

Might as well try to compare underpants. Thread count, style, and size are just stats, but in the end it is up to the wearer to decide what is comfortable. Then there are those guys that wear panties. What mic would they like the best? IDK. lol
 
I was thinking that comparing one mic against another was exactly how to keep opinion out of it.
Using both microphones to record a single source and presenting the audio for people to interpret. By doing that, you can leave all opinion out of it. Just present the audio to speak for itself.

Going to school and getting married sucks up a lot of time, hence the long hiatus ;)
 
Shindiggety said:
I was thinking that comparing one mic against another was exactly how to keep opinion out of it.
Using both microphones to record a single source and presenting the audio for people to interpret. By doing that, you can leave all opinion out of it. Just present the audio to speak for itself.

Going to school and getting married sucks up a lot of time, hence the long hiatus ;)
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Congrats man!

Yeah, well that is the problem. No one source is the same and neither is any microphones character. Add to that other variables like the room it is recorded in and the genre or player, and you have basically nothing relevant to compare to that will reflect another persons environment. Nor give them a true idea of how it will work for them in theirs.

There is even a website that allows you to compare different mics, pedals, preamps and what not. Kinda fun to play with, but it really tells you nothing you can really use IMO.

I forget the name of it. I'll try to find it.
 
jimmys69 said:
Congrats man!

Yeah, well that is the problem. No one source is the same and neither is any microphones character. Add to that other variables like the room it is recorded in and the genre or player, and you have basically nothing relevant to compare to that will reflect another persons environment. Nor give them a true idea of how it will work for them in theirs.

There is even a website that allows you to compare different mics, pedals, preamps and what not. Kinda fun to play with, but it really tells you nothing you can really use IMO.

I forget the name of it. I'll try to find it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, man!

The purpose isn't to show people exactly what the microphone will do for them in their own environment, it's just to give an idea on the sound characteristics and quality. When you get into it THAT deep, then what is the point of any review of any gear ever, if it isn't showing you exactly what YOU would be doing with the gear. This is how most reviews are done at SoundOnSound, RecordingHacks, etc.. even here at HomeRecording a lot of people review mics this way.
 
Shindiggety said:
Thanks, man!

The purpose isn't to show people exactly what the microphone will do for them in their own environment, it's just to give an idea on the sound characteristics and quality. When you get into it THAT deep, then what is the point of any review of any gear ever, if it isn't showing you exactly what YOU would be doing with the gear. This is how most reviews are done at SoundOnSound, RecordingHacks, etc.. even here at HomeRecording a lot of people review mics this way.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. That is why I tend to ignore them all. :)

Don't get me wrong, I am just saying that one mic may look good on paper and a comparison may give a direction, but until you use it yourself there is no way to make a real judgement.

The many mic purchases I have made were either based on previous experience in other studios or by recommendation from others years of experience with the same type of things I am recording.

I mean I can definitely say that Shure KSM141's sound way better than the Samson CO2's that I once had for drum overheads. I am not so sure that two audio files would really show that to me. Well, maybe. But out of context it would be hard to judge them.

And again, some sources are better suited with a different mic in a particular environment. Even two mics that sound similar will show why they are different.

I am not trying to be argumentative. Just honest. Singer 'a' can come in and an SM7b sounds great. Singer 'b' comes in and a NT1a sounds better. That only happened once in 6 years btw. No mic is good for everything. That is why there are so many.


I will state that IMO, most people won't even hear the subtle differences between similar mics (low end or ridiculously expensive) unless they have years of experience with high end gear. Yeah, one condenser mic may be more harsh in the midrange in a test sound sample, but sometimes that is a good thing for another instrument. For those who have the ability to hear the difference already have formed their own opinions so likely don't even care to listen to comparisons.

Same thing would apply to monitor speakers. One model may work fine in one space, but not so good in another. To give an audio comparison example of how they sound is just as impossible as a mic comparison. Too many variables.


You did make me take a step back and think about this tho... :)


I am curious, are you asking for a school project or are you just genuinely curious?
 
jimmys69 said:
Yeah, I know. That is why I tend to ignore them all. :)

Don't get me wrong, I am just saying that one mic may look good on paper and a comparison may give a direction, but until you use it yourself there is no way to make a real judgement.

The many mic purchases I have made were either based on previous experience in other studios or by recommendation from others years of experience with the same type of things I am recording.

I mean I can definitely say that Shure KSM141's sound way better than the Samson CO2's that I once had for drum overheads. I am not so sure that two audio files would really show that to me. Well, maybe. But out of context it would be hard to judge them.

And again, some sources are better suited with a different mic in a particular environment. Even two mics that sound similar will show why they are different.

I am not trying to be argumentative. Just honest. Singer 'a' can come in and an SM7b sounds great. Singer 'b' comes in and a NT1a sounds better. That only happened once in 6 years btw. No mic is good for everything. That is why there are so many.


I will state that IMO, most people won't even hear the subtle differences between similar mics (low end or ridiculously expensive) unless they have years of experience with high end gear. Yeah, one condenser mic may be more harsh in the midrange in a test sound sample, but sometimes that is a good thing for another instrument. For those who have the ability to hear the difference already have formed their own opinions so likely don't even care to listen to comparisons.

Same thing would apply to monitor speakers. One model may work fine in one space, but not so good in another. To give an audio comparison example of how they sound is just as impossible as a mic comparison. Too many variables.


You did make me take a step back and think about this tho... :)


I am curious, are you asking for a school project or are you just genuinely curious?
Click to expand...

Pure Curiosity :)

The problem is that a lot of us don't have studio experience to go on. You do, and you're lucky for that. But most of us Home Recorders can't afford to ignore reviews of this nature. They're one of the best resources we have and are the next best thing to hands on experience. Even if we have friends or colleagues who recommend a particular mic to us, we still want to hear it, right? I'm sure you wouldn't buy a new mic that was recommended by a fellow engineer doing the same type of work as you without hearing it first, would you? And what's the best way to hear it? In a mix? Hearing it in a mix is helpful, but not the best way because it's likely been EQ'd and compressed and who knows what else. Hearing it alone is obviously the best method. And even better if you can hear the same source with a mic you already know well for comparison.

That's the reason I ask. Trust me, a lot of thought has gone into this.

I guess I'm not entirely sure what your overall point is. If it's that mics sound different on different sources and in different environments, I completely agree. If it's that reviews aren't helpful to you, then that's fine too, but they help a lot of us :) And this is the most accurate and revealing way to do it. And of course it isn't as good as using the mic in our own chain to see how it works for us, but that's a luxury we can't all afford.

I've just noticed that there is a serious lack of resources available on so many newer mics. There could be some hidden gems among them, but many of us would never know because we're far less likely to purchase a mic we've never heard.
 
Sorry,

Like you, I'm really not trying to argue. I was just trying to explain my thought process.

And now this thread has become something else entirely haha
 
for me I like mics that work on as many different sources as possible, and I use some mics for just one sound when I need 'that' sound, sadly neutral sound and extremely uncoloured sound costs a lot of money, there's just no way around that.
 
Btyre2013 said:
for me I like mics that work on as many different sources as possible, and I use some mics for just one sound when I need 'that' sound, sadly neutral sound and extremely uncoloured sound costs a lot of money, there's just no way around that.
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Agreed. If you were conducting a mic review, how would you go about that? Would you compare it to one of your favorite mics?
 
Shindiggety said:
Agreed. If you were conducting a mic review, how would you go about that? Would you compare it to one of your favorite mics?
Click to expand...

I would compare mics in a similar price range and features, but I don't do mic reviews, I just buy mics that I like and enjoy recording.
 
Btyre2013 said:
for me I like mics that work on as many different sources as possible, and I use some mics for just one sound when I need 'that' sound, sadly neutral sound and extremely uncoloured sound costs a lot of money, there's just no way around that.
Click to expand...

Agreed!

How would you personally go about presenting a Mic review? Would you compare it with one of your favorites?
 
Btyre2013 said:
I would compare mics in a similar price range and features, but I don't do mic reviews, I just buy mics that I like and enjoy recording.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the duplicate reply.
Most people don't do Mic reviews. I'm just trying to see how other people would do it and what would be most helpful.
How do you decide which microphone is right for you? Do you read up about it? Is it strictly whichever is in your budget? Do you ask for advice?
 
Shindiggety said:
Sorry about the duplicate reply.
Most people don't do Mic reviews. I'm just trying to see how other people would do it and what would be most helpful.
How do you decide which microphone is right for you? Do you read up about it? Is it strictly whichever is in your budget? Do you ask for advice?
Click to expand...

I stated out reading magazines (pre-internet) like sound-on-sound, resolution, you can learn a lot from them, same thing with books about recording, there's a lot of information that isn't on the internet, and I'm not sharing it here.
 
Shindiggety said:
Pure Curiosity :)

The problem is that a lot of us don't have studio experience to go on. You do, and you're lucky for that. But most of us Home Recorders can't afford to ignore reviews of this nature. They're one of the best resources we have and are the next best thing to hands on experience. Even if we have friends or colleagues who recommend a particular mic to us, we still want to hear it, right? I'm sure you wouldn't buy a new mic that was recommended by a fellow engineer doing the same type of work as you without hearing it first, would you? And what's the best way to hear it? In a mix? Hearing it in a mix is helpful, but not the best way because it's likely been EQ'd and compressed and who knows what else. Hearing it alone is obviously the best method. And even better if you can hear the same source with a mic you already know well for comparison.

That's the reason I ask. Trust me, a lot of thought has gone into this.

I guess I'm not entirely sure what your overall point is. If it's that mics sound different on different sources and in different environments, I completely agree. If it's that reviews aren't helpful to you, then that's fine too, but they help a lot of us :) And this is the most accurate and revealing way to do it. And of course it isn't as good as using the mic in our own chain to see how it works for us, but that's a luxury we can't all afford.

I've just noticed that there is a serious lack of resources available on so many newer mics. There could be some hidden gems among them, but many of us would never know because we're far less likely to purchase a mic we've never heard.
Click to expand...

I hear ya man. I am totally not arguing anything. Just for me having had some experience as well as recommendations from members here, I tend to not listen much to mic comparisons.

Please don't get me wrong, but many reviews and comparisons can be more hype in advertising than actual use.

Use the comparisons and reviews to decide on your purchases. Then you will make your judgment yourself when you use the mic.

Good thing is, you can always resell them and try another.


I am no full on pro by any means. But I am happy with the mics I am using now. None of them are over $400.
 
I'm not qualified to write a mic review. My baseline for condensers is the AKG C414B-ULS (I have two of them, they sound the same, and I usually have a pretty good idea of what they'll sound like on a particular source (and neither was over $400 used)), and I think that's the one they feature as the baseline on the 'clipalator'. Clipalator Audio and Video for Pro Audio Gear @ ZenPro Audio -- I think I need more experience to be able to make good use of the clipalator. It's very cool and very much appreciated, but yeah, after listening to a bunch of the clips, I can't say I'm any more knowledgable as a result.
 
just an opinion...

Shindiggety said:
Let me explain, perhaps that was a bad choice of title.

Here's the hypothetical;
You are given the task of reviewing a mic. Let's even say it's a budget mic.
Your task is to provide a clear evaluation of the mics characteristic and abilities and present it to the world of home-recorders.
The best way to do that would most likely be a side-by-side comparison to a well-known, tried-and-true, quality Microphone. Correct?
Which mic would you choose to compare it to? Ideally it would be a mic most people know well, and a mic anybody could get (think availability, not cost).
For example: "Here is how this instrument dynamic (X) compares to a Shure sm57 (Y)" or "Here is how this Large Diaphragm Condenser(X) compares to an AT-2020(Y)".

Assume this hypothetical for:
- Handheld Dynamic
- Large Diaphragm Condenser
- Small Diaphragm Condenser
- Ribbon
- Drum mic (Kick)
- Drum mic (Tom)

Which Mics would you choose?

*** Cost is not a factor, it's more important that the mic is a widely known microphone with plenty of resources or documentation and is currently in production ***

As a side note, what is your opinion? Would it be more beneficial to compare a budget mic against another budget mic? Or would people get a better idea of the microphone comparing against a truly high quality mic?

Apologies for the lengthy post :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm definitely no expert and do not have enough equipment to do any comparing. A few years ago as a mic noob I made myself a spreadsheet and every time I read an interview or discussion about mics I added them to the spreadsheet with a general description of the sound from the users opinion (dark,bright,good on certain instrument ranges or voices, etc.). When the list was reasonably long I made a graphic representation of the "sound". When I considered a needed mic I had a starting point. Of course price was an issue but I could be on the lookout for used mics if I had an idea of what they may sound like. The process taught me a lot about types and charactericts of mics. But then again, my last mic purchase was 3 Behringer C1s for a few bucks. Couldn't pass up a bargan.LOL
 
I'm also far from qualified to write a mic review (slim mic locker) - however, if I was going to deliver one...

I would simply provide all the links in my chain, the room condition, point out to take have the listener take note of my voice or type of instrument, etc.

As mentioned, since all mics have the same specs - so attempting to place the listener "in the room with me" would be my beginner approach.

I dig through reviews for info, knowledge, and fun, so I find this thread mighty interesting.

Daryl
 
Everyone is qualified to write a mic review. The question is not the review, or the reviewer, it's all about who will read the review. I could not write a review for a qualified, technical readership. They would expect facts and no opinion at all, just perhaps a conclusion, that highlights certain test results. They'd expect technical data, detailed and accurate, with test methodology fully detailed. On the other hand, maybe the review is for buskers thinking about adding a microphone to their low cost, technically simple setup. They want a whole,set of different content, and don't care two hoots about technical detail. They might want to know that the mic looks like a Shure Sm58, but is a tenth of the price and not as good, but the not as good is a bit more handling noise, not quite so much at the top so a bit muffled on a female voice, and needs the volume control turning up just a tiny bit. I'd suggest any of this forums members could write that one! Reviews are for people, so it's the people who must set the content.
 
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