What is the main reason of a poor sound ?

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Krzyfn

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Hey. I`ve got a following hardware:
Guitar Encore (with one original humbucker)
Boss Ds-1
Amp H&K Attax 40
Mic Mxl 990
Preamp Behringer Ultratube Mic100
Soundcard onboard (ac97) (There is an option that i`ll borrow terratec soundcard from friend. Probably cheaper model)
and Adobe Audition as a recording software.
I try to make a sound like eg. Queens Of The Stone Age, Soundgarden, Audioslave, and similar. I record guitar and vocal (i have no percussion, so i use samples). Could you tell me what is the most important thing to do/change ? How to record ?
I`ll describe you my own system of record - guitar picked to ds-1 and AMP. In front of an AMP is placed mxl990 (there is something like a tent over mic and amp) and joined to pre mic100. Next is my poor soundcard and software. Have you got any ideas? Maybe change my pickup ? Maybe buy a new Gibson ? Maybe new souncard ? There is one tricky thing. I`ve got only ~60$ and i can have next 60 after sell my actual guitar. That`s all my budget. I`m collecting money of course ;P. In future it will be diffrent.
 
keep saving money. $60 isn't going to upgrade your setup that much (*at all)

Your setup is only as good as your weakest link.
You yourself have already stated "my poor soundcard" and that should give you the first clue as what might be one of the weakest parts of the chain.

Also a good recording starts at the source and continues through the signal path. It first starts with you and how well you play...how good your instrument is, how your room sounds, how the microphone sounds, the preamp, etc. etc.

But keep saving money. No one said home recording was supposed to be cheap.
 
i would say mic position will be the weakest link. a good way to upgrade your studio for free is reading up/testing out mic positions and whatnot.

learn about eq, compression, and try to use what you got until you have more money.

i stuck with a 1979 peavey board and a carvin cm50 dynamic for 4 years before i could get a few sdc's, ldc, sm57, and an onyx 400f.

i learned a bunch with that crappy crappy mic, and i could get mixes sound...meh. but who cares if you're learning, its not going to sound great with the best gear in the world.
 
An AC97 onboard soundcard is made with about 50cents worth of parts for beeps, boops and light gaming.

Any guesses where your weakest link is????
 
Krzyfn said:
Hey. I`ve got a following hardware:
Guitar Encore (with one original humbucker)
Boss Ds-1
Amp H&K Attax 40
Mic Mxl 990
Preamp Behringer Ultratube Mic100
Soundcard onboard (ac97) (There is an option that i`ll borrow terratec soundcard from friend. Probably cheaper model)
and Adobe Audition as a recording software.
I try to make a sound like eg. Queens Of The Stone Age, Soundgarden, Audioslave, and similar. I record guitar and vocal (i have no percussion, so i use samples). Could you tell me what is the most important thing to do/change ? How to record ?
I`ll describe you my own system of record - guitar picked to ds-1 and AMP. In front of an AMP is placed mxl990 (there is something like a tent over mic and amp) and joined to pre mic100. Next is my poor soundcard and software. Have you got any ideas? Maybe change my pickup ? Maybe buy a new Gibson ? Maybe new souncard ? There is one tricky thing. I`ve got only ~60$ and i can have next 60 after sell my actual guitar. That`s all my budget. I`m collecting money of course ;P. In future it will be diffrent.
Click to expand...

feeling wordy today so here it goes:

if you can't upgrade right now, make sure you follow the basics of signal flow. if your signal is overloading (the signal is too "hot") at any stage before it is recorded-- in the microphone, at the preamp stage, or going into your sound card, it is going to introduce undesirable distortion (unlike the kind that comes from your amp and distortion pedal, this distortion will probably sound terrible). it's particularly bad if the signal is too hot going into the sound card as this will result in digital overs, which sound particularly bad.
you might want to try moving your mic back a couple of feet, turning down the gain and output level on the preamp, and making sure that the level on your soundcard (or in the channel inidcator in your recording program) is not clipping ("in the red") and trying again.

the quickest way to getting a better sound as you describe wanting it at anything approximating your stated budget might be to get something like the line 6 (same company that makes the guitar and bass pod lines) toneport ux1. this is a usb interface which would represent an upgrade from your soundcard. it has integrated amp (guitar and bass), preamp and effects modeling. this would mean that you would plug your guitar directly into it and use the onboard modeling to get your sound. i think someone else on this board pointed out that you can get it for $99.99 from j&r music world before shipping and/or applicable taxes (usually goes for $129 before those fees). It does not provide phantom power so you'd have to use your behringer mic preamp for the mxl microphone for vocals, acoustic instruments, etc., but then you could run it through the preamp modeling on the toneport to get better sound.

finally if it sounds bad to you in the room, it will most likely sound bad recorded, no matter how good a job you do.
 
...if it sounds bad to you in the room, it will most likely sound bad recorded, no matter how good a job you do.
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Agreed. Great gear just makes a bad sound come out more clearly.

Plug one ear and you'll hear a source similarly to how a mic does. If it sounds good it'll probably sound good in a recording, even with cheap gear if the gear is used well. If you're in tune, in the pocket and have good tone in the room, it's pretty easy to get it sounding good in a recording. :)

Tim
 
You can get pretty damn good recordings with shit gear IF YOU HAVE A GOOD ROOM. Good gear can't make a shitty room sound good. Then worry about your soundcard.
 
Anomaly Design said:
You can get pretty damn good recordings with shit gear IF YOU HAVE A GOOD ROOM.
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Ohhhhh, I beg to differ.
Take your soundblaster card and radioshack karaoke mic into a professional studio and let me know what you come out with ;)
 
bennychico11 said:
Ohhhhh, I beg to differ.
Take your soundblaster card and radioshack karaoke mic into a professional studio and let me know what you come out with ;)
Click to expand...

I recorded drums with a soundlaster and a radioshack computer mic (battery powered) with a proficient acoustical enviroment and the results were satisfactory. Now, Take the pro-gear out of that pro-studio and put it in a very bad acoustical enviroment.... I think the results would be worse.
 
Great gear just makes a bad sound come out more clearly.
^ i like that quote...

anyway, i strongly agree with the sugestion of upgrading your sound card, becouse i've done some recording with verrrry cheep equipment (from the dollar store! yay!) so i ended up having to remove alot of noise with noise reduction software, i did the same thing with good gear except for the sound card, and still had terrible sound quality with noise i had to remove, but when i upgraded the sound card i had amazing results, even with using the crappy $1.50 mic. also as previosly stated mic positioning makes a big diffrence.

- this is based of personal experiance so i might be wrong-
 
good gear sure helps (i don't have any great gear, but i've definitely experienced tangible gains every time i've upgraded), but if you don't know at least some of the basics of recording, you'll make the same kinds of mistakes that will ruin any chance you have to optimize its value-- poor microphone placement, not managing signal flow well, not factoring in the acoustics of the room, etc.
it seems engineers who do great work value the tools they have on their merits-- (major label engineers sometimes use rnc's alongside their fearns and gml's) rather than on their sticker price.
that said i've seen the point made that anything that transmits or transforms the audio signal will have an effect on its sound-- mics and a/d converters being the most important as they actually convert the signal from one form to another (i.e. physical energy to an analog (electrical) audio signal in the former case, and from analog to digital in the latter), and the lower quality of the components in what you use, the more distortion or artifacts that you introduce. sometimes you can use those kinds of effects to your advantage, but more often than not it just distorts and/or detracts from what you're trying to do.
 
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first-things-first. You've gotta ditch that soundcard. You can get an Emu 0404 for about $75 - $90. Next get a decent inexpensive mixer like a Behringer 1212 (Ebay for about $70), then get a couple of used Shure SM57's (ebay for around $50 each). The board has phantom power so you won't have to preamp the mics. With this setup you should be able to take the rest of your stuff and get a decent sound. Here's how your chain will look:

Guitar, amp, mic, mixer, Emu, computer
 
This is for me second good question. Is the mixer needed ? Mxl990 - this is condenser mic which record mainly my room. Mixer it means next dollars. I bought mic100 as my guitar line in preamp or mic preamp (as a guitar without tube pre or vocal recording). Is the diffrence between guitar recorded with one mic, or more of them ? Furthermore e-guitar should be recording with using a dynamic mic. I`m doing it with my mxl990 ^^.
 
Things that lead to a good recorded sound (in order of importance):

Source - I used to ahve an encore and it sounded awful, try and borrow a friends guitar and see if it sounds better.

Room + Microphone Placement - have you tried different micing positions?

Microphone - You should be okay with that mxl
Preamp - " "
Convertors - I used to use one of them, its a bit noisy and bandwidth restricted but it should be okay :)

What is wrong with the sound your getting? (can you post examples)
Have you tried double tracking the guitars ?(recording the same part twice to give a fuller more powerful sound)
 
The sample

Ok there is a link to mp3 - 'entering'
One guitar is cut of from one moment becouse my grandfa arrived ^^. It`s just something like a demo. Guitars can be a little falsely.
Listen it. I want to make something like 'soundgarden' (if you know of course ;P). Help me plz.
preamp - '' '' - the same what mic ?
 
Man they just gave you a bunch of great advice! :confused:

If your looking to get some new gear then save up longer and get a better sound card!

Otherwise learn how to use what you have, start searching the internet and this forum for all sorts of tips on getting a good tone. Because its been discussed here before!

-Blaze
 
I listened. It's not bad at all.

If you want detailed suggestions post it over in the mp3 clinic.

Warning though, probably not a good idea to say you want to sound like a pro production or like a particular band (because those things aren't realistic), but just ask for suggestions on how to sound better.

Tim
 
Anomaly Design said:
I recorded drums with a soundlaster and a radioshack computer mic (battery powered) with a proficient acoustical enviroment and the results were satisfactory. Now, Take the pro-gear out of that pro-studio and put it in a very bad acoustical enviroment.... I think the results would be worse.
Click to expand...

Well that depends on what you mean by 'very bad'. If you're talking like a sewer or something that's just a given. If you took the soundblaster and radio shack mic into a studio and took the pro gear into a living room the pro gear would still outperform it.

As for the original poster - your recordings will never improve as long as you use that AC97. It's not even a soundcard it's onboard sound. Which basically means it has a very low level of audio processing power, no line-in port and has been designed to intergrate with the motherboard and not designed for sound quality.
 
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