A
AGCurry
New member
Oral sex can be useful.
R
RAMI
Guest
I was walking down the street in New York the other day. This guy with a guitar stopped me and asked "Excuse me, how do I get to Madison Square Garden"...I said "Practice".
A
alevy
New member
I have a little knowledge I know like general things.do you think a engineer would take in a assistant wit limited knowledge but that is eager and dedicated too learn. Im reading all the information i can get my hands on. Do you think I should do some schooling in the field first before I go out looking to be an assistant? Im familiar with cool edit pro and waves but but it seems that i should know protools.
S
Samantha C.
New member
You mean there's still a job called "Audio Engineer"?! 
As Slipperman said in one of his narratives... "There's some 30000 kids graduating from recording school every year and NO jobs."
As Slipperman said in one of his narratives... "There's some 30000 kids graduating from recording school every year and NO jobs."
A
alevy
New member
Samantha C. said:You mean there's still a job called "Audio Engineer"?!
As Slipperman said in one of his narratives... "There's some 30000 kids graduating from recording school every year and NO jobs."
All no thats kind of discouraging. It's bad enough you cant get a job with a lot of degrees allready. That really sucks.
jgourd
New member
Even with my degree in Sound Recording I have had to struggle as a free lancer for 25 years. The main reason is that in addition to raw talent, experience, and connections; you need to have a winning personality and it helps a whole lot if you can play.
S
Samantha C.
New member
alevy said:
Oh I'm sorry. I was in no way trying to discourage you...
My opinion probably doesn't count for much, but you might find though that your best chance of being successful in the industry is to go lock yourself in a room somewhere day after day and read everything you can get your hands on (get 'em good 'n dirty!) concerning audio engineering, production, mixing, composition, etc. (that studiocovers website is a really great resource... don't have the link atm
). Also listen to and analyze as many mixes you can so you can begin to understand what is really going on in one. Buy some gear. Do research (like you are doing). Practice, Practice, Practice. Consider moving to a large city (if you aren't already in one). Get your butt out there. Go to shows. Make contacts. Make your presence known. Be humble.
I live in NYC and have worked with various talented indy AE's (self proclaimed of course) - all from various backgrounds (recording school, music colleges, electrical engineering, bedroom musicians, etc.) and not one of them has been able to land any type of internship or work for a "big studio"; However, they seem to consistently be involved in paying (not a whole lot of $$) indy projects.
Just food for thought.
Samantha
Q
Quantagee
Banned
I think that the best way to get into engineering is to listen to every album you can. Try to visualize recording and mixing it yourself. You don't really need actual experience, you really need to just listen and get the mix technique in your head. My brother taught me this last summer and I have spent countless hours in my room just picking apart and wondering how they do it. If I think long and hard enough, I can "see" myself mixing on a big Neve console. Now, when I get to a pro studio with a Neve console, I will know what to do because I have studied the console (in pictures on my wall) and know by heart where and what to adjust. It all comes with practice, really. Going to school will help alot too.
A
alevy
New member
jgourd said:
Well as for the personality part I can get along with any and everybody I'm outgoing and have a lot of initiative. My problem is no have the desire to learn but I dont know where to start besides reading books and all of these posts. As for connections i don't have any of those either. I'm everyone elses connection when it comes to getting tracks, recording, rapping etc. With everyone I know we are all pretty much in the same boat. No connections.
S
Samantha C.
New member
alevy said:
That sounds like a damn good start to me!
A
alevy
New member
Yeah I understand. I think I need someone to tell me if im doing things right. Like a apprenticeship or something. To my own ears its going to allways sound horrible to me I guess. My c.d. collection is not a accurate reference for me to compare my recordings to or should I say it's not an attainable reference. My equipment is not on the level of the major professional studios.
I need like hands on assistance. Books can only do so much. I've been recording at my house for three years almost now and it doesn't sound anywhere near commercial quality. I will keep reading though. I think I'm going to definetly go to school next semester.
By the way i was wondering how much do you guys charge per hour at your studios and the ones that you all have gone to. I'm not talking about major studios. Basically in home studios how much do you guys generally charge. A lot of people want to record by me but I dont feel comfortable enough with my mixdowns to charge. A lot of the people are just starving artist that just want to be able to say they have songs on a c.d. instead of in there heads and on a piece of paper.
I need like hands on assistance. Books can only do so much. I've been recording at my house for three years almost now and it doesn't sound anywhere near commercial quality. I will keep reading though. I think I'm going to definetly go to school next semester.
By the way i was wondering how much do you guys charge per hour at your studios and the ones that you all have gone to. I'm not talking about major studios. Basically in home studios how much do you guys generally charge. A lot of people want to record by me but I dont feel comfortable enough with my mixdowns to charge. A lot of the people are just starving artist that just want to be able to say they have songs on a c.d. instead of in there heads and on a piece of paper.
giraffe
i love negative rep
i just run a home studio, but it's the only job i have.
I went to school, and got an internship, the internship being worth nearly the entire cost of the school.
---man i wish i could work under some body that good again, that's the fastest way to learn.
but, i just built my own studio, all be it small, over like the last 4 years.
Learning more on the job, untill now, it's all i do. (not getting rich)
but really, cloneboys got the goods, people will fall all over themselves to bring you on if you have steady work.
I went to school, and got an internship, the internship being worth nearly the entire cost of the school.
---man i wish i could work under some body that good again, that's the fastest way to learn.
but, i just built my own studio, all be it small, over like the last 4 years.
Learning more on the job, untill now, it's all i do. (not getting rich)
but really, cloneboys got the goods, people will fall all over themselves to bring you on if you have steady work.
Be Loveless
New member
You need to think beyond recording bands. There are many other applications for sound engineers besides working with rock and roll. I'm a door man at a downtown bar and our clientel consistsof a lot of artist / performer types. One of our regulars who I also know from other circles is a sound designer. I would ask what he was up to here and there and try to strike up conversations with him. Well it took about a year but about a month ago he walks in and asks me "Do you know anyone who wants to learn theatrical sound design ?" I said "yeah, me". It was a brief few week internship, he needed help with this one play because he was slightly overbooked. Did I lose money driving to DC, yes. was it intimidating cause I did'nt know what the hell I was doing in an unfamiliar enviroment, yes. Did I learn a lot, Hell yes and next time he over extends himself he'll probably give me a call and toss me a couple of bucks to boot.
The Sound and recording field is a crazy convoluted world. Don't just seek out bands. Talk to writers, actors, performance artists etc. Remember ALL performers need sound both Live and Recorded. Look around your town I'll bet there are some solo performance acts or a comedy troupe thats as broke as you are. You could help eachother out.
The Sound and recording field is a crazy convoluted world. Don't just seek out bands. Talk to writers, actors, performance artists etc. Remember ALL performers need sound both Live and Recorded. Look around your town I'll bet there are some solo performance acts or a comedy troupe thats as broke as you are. You could help eachother out.
MadAudio
Damned if I do
You have got to be joking. This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read.Quantagee said:
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
MadAudio said:
Somebody is on the dope.
MadAudio
Damned if I do
Yeah, but I still think it's dumb!HangDawg said:
HangDawg
bUnGhOlIo
MadAudio said:Yeah, but I still think it's dumb!
I didn't mean you. I meant him. I was agreeing with you.
D
darnold
New member
Hey Alevy,
To answer your question above im in Idaho.
Another thing you might want to consider is finding a band that you think is good enough to hit into a professional studio. Then talk them into heading into the studio and you will be their manager. This is just a way of saying hey ill assist YOU the band if you let me into the studio with you and let me hang out with the engineer their. The engineer will probably be open to discussion with you because you are part of the client. If not, at least you can watch and learn.
If that fails, you can even considering paying for the bands demo or even full length. I think that would be much more usefull on your money then spending it on a school. Then you can go in there and actually work on a real project. Then tell the band to sell it and you make revenue off of the sales to make your money back. Sort of like a record label. So really their is no loss if you do it right. And you might even be able to make some money in the meantime.
I have an assiociate who did it this way. Started out as an assistant and somebody i wouldnt pay any attention to. I see his dedication now and I now let him come in and rent the studio for his own clients projects with a good discount. And im even nice enough to let him do his own music projects for a very low cost after hours. The nice thing is, hes very into hip hop producing, something i know little about. So whenever i get a call on hiphop i just call him up and have him come in. He also comes in on projects i either just dont feel like doing (like karaoke stuff) or if im going to be out of town.
So theres a few ways to get into it. Show dedication man. Also show that youll do the stuff that the main engineer wont wonna do. You go into a rock studio to learn rock stuff you better learn how to like the country stuff, or the hip hop stuff, or the jazz stuff, or whatever the main engineer isnt focused on doing (not that that is bad music or anything) and you will get a few jobs.
Next thing. Whether you like it or not, start tuning your business skills. I can already see a big no no. Feel like not charging your clients on mixdown? That is a big big no no. Not because your supposed to be after their money. But what you create in a clients psychological mind when they go in your studio, take up your time, and leave their knowing they got it for free. The value of it shoots down about 100%. Especially over time with all your clients coming. Even if it was good work, their is no value to it because it was just the "free work" they got. Even if you made them pay say 10-20 bucks, they would have a different mindset and a whole new value to it. Then they are thinking, he does good work and is nice enough to hook people up. Or even better, say your charging $20 an hour and keep that mind set until the end of the whole project, then they feel like they are doing $20 an hour work. Then when it comes to paying up, tell them you were only charging them $5 an hour because it was so fun to work with them. Then that also makes a protection for you. If a band comes in that is just a living hell for you to do. They are bitching you all the time about irrelevant things and whatever, then you get the full $20 because they are paying for it.
Anyway, just think about that for a second and you will find a technique that works for you. Dont ever cut your value to free. Because thats all you are is the guy in town that does the free recording. Bands will always understand that they need to pay money for your time, and if you are good enough they wont even flinch on paying you that $5 or $10 an hour.
Danny
To answer your question above im in Idaho.
Another thing you might want to consider is finding a band that you think is good enough to hit into a professional studio. Then talk them into heading into the studio and you will be their manager. This is just a way of saying hey ill assist YOU the band if you let me into the studio with you and let me hang out with the engineer their. The engineer will probably be open to discussion with you because you are part of the client. If not, at least you can watch and learn.
If that fails, you can even considering paying for the bands demo or even full length. I think that would be much more usefull on your money then spending it on a school. Then you can go in there and actually work on a real project. Then tell the band to sell it and you make revenue off of the sales to make your money back. Sort of like a record label. So really their is no loss if you do it right. And you might even be able to make some money in the meantime.
I have an assiociate who did it this way. Started out as an assistant and somebody i wouldnt pay any attention to. I see his dedication now and I now let him come in and rent the studio for his own clients projects with a good discount. And im even nice enough to let him do his own music projects for a very low cost after hours. The nice thing is, hes very into hip hop producing, something i know little about. So whenever i get a call on hiphop i just call him up and have him come in. He also comes in on projects i either just dont feel like doing (like karaoke stuff) or if im going to be out of town.
So theres a few ways to get into it. Show dedication man. Also show that youll do the stuff that the main engineer wont wonna do. You go into a rock studio to learn rock stuff you better learn how to like the country stuff, or the hip hop stuff, or the jazz stuff, or whatever the main engineer isnt focused on doing (not that that is bad music or anything) and you will get a few jobs.
Next thing. Whether you like it or not, start tuning your business skills. I can already see a big no no. Feel like not charging your clients on mixdown? That is a big big no no. Not because your supposed to be after their money. But what you create in a clients psychological mind when they go in your studio, take up your time, and leave their knowing they got it for free. The value of it shoots down about 100%. Especially over time with all your clients coming. Even if it was good work, their is no value to it because it was just the "free work" they got. Even if you made them pay say 10-20 bucks, they would have a different mindset and a whole new value to it. Then they are thinking, he does good work and is nice enough to hook people up. Or even better, say your charging $20 an hour and keep that mind set until the end of the whole project, then they feel like they are doing $20 an hour work. Then when it comes to paying up, tell them you were only charging them $5 an hour because it was so fun to work with them. Then that also makes a protection for you. If a band comes in that is just a living hell for you to do. They are bitching you all the time about irrelevant things and whatever, then you get the full $20 because they are paying for it.
Anyway, just think about that for a second and you will find a technique that works for you. Dont ever cut your value to free. Because thats all you are is the guy in town that does the free recording. Bands will always understand that they need to pay money for your time, and if you are good enough they wont even flinch on paying you that $5 or $10 an hour.
Danny
A
alevy
New member
Man you made think a lot just now. At one point I was charging people but that didn't work out to well. Everybody that was coming in where all friends. Even the friends of friends that I recorded are my friends now. lol. Still I was charging them but some times after they recorded they would tell me they can bring me the money the next time they came after I set up with them for two hours. I would help them write their verses to perfection. For a lot of people they didn't have a hook so I would write it for them. I looked at it as if i'm on the song people are going to hear me too. So I figured I would benefit in that way. They eventually decided they wanted to do c.d.'s with me and I couldn't charge somebody for something that i'm on but i'm about to start. I think people do look at me as the free studio. Thats crazy. I don't know i'm in a bad situation because i'm a rapper first and foremost and one guy in particular he brings tracks from his friend so I kind of need him to a degree. I don't know I am definetly about to make some changes though.
o yeah and the friend you said you have thats into rap do you mind posting some of his stuff? Thank you a whole lot you helped me out a lot.
o yeah and the friend you said you have thats into rap do you mind posting some of his stuff? Thank you a whole lot you helped me out a lot.
D
darnold
New member
Hey Alevy,
Its a tough situation. Especially with friends. Ive made alot of mistakes in the past with allowing friends to take advantage of their positions.
Friends are an absolute night mare in my opinion when it comes to recording. Especially if you own a pro studio. They are all going around and saying, "hey i know this guy who owns a nice studio, hes a good buddy of mine i bet i can get you a hook up." ..... Oh really? The best way to deal with them is to write up a studio policy. Have it actually written down. This is good for anybody actually. When somebody argues you can just say "Thats in my policy and it doesnt change." With friends it needs to be all or nothing when it comes to charging money. Dont ever ever go in between. Also, be careful on who you really think of as friends. Would a real friend really expect you to work hours on end for them for free? No they should be willing to pay you because you are a friend. Basically what i mean by all or nothing and no in between is this. If your going to charge them at all, charge them what you would charge anyone else. If your rate is $10 an hour, charge them $10 an hour and follow through with it. If you decide you want to just help them out and give them a discount, just do it for free. Never say $5 dollars an hour. Why? If you do it for free, they ultimately do not have a say on how it turns out, or on how much work and time you put it. Because it was free they dont have any say on it. You can take as much time as you want or as little, and you work on your own time. Make that clear at the very beginning of the project. If its free, you are the one in charge, you are the one doing them the favor. When you charge full price, then its fair for them to treat you as any other client would treat you. If they dont like it then they are in charge of telling you to do it differently. Just like any other client. So you are seperated from the Friend issue right away. You treat it professionally this way and they will treat you professionally. Friend emotions dont get mixed this way. If they give you guff, its ok because you are getting paid for it just as much as any other client would pay. Now heres where the big no no is. Charging them say half of your regular rate to hook them up. Now you are in a situation where they still have a say for everything, they are still in charge of the project, and they can nag you about everything just as much as a regular client. Because of the fact they are paying money. They WILL abuse this and take the friend part out and treat you professionally, while your sitting there trying to hook them up as a FRIEND. Your mixing too worlds. As long as they are paying you they are not caring about the friend issue. And waht sucks for you, you are not getting paid enough for the issues that will come up. I guarantee their will be more issues this way too. They will completely abuse their position and you will get your ass kicked. Just keep it completely free as a friend helping a friend, or full out and keep it professional. Never mix friends with business. Again, if you are charging them full rate. At the end you can always cut them a deal when it comes time to pay because they are friends. This way it looks more like this, "We went and got $50 an hour work done for us and he gave it to use for $25." Then the value of your work just sky rocketted. Instead of them look at this "He hooked us up by doing $25 dollars an hour value of work instead of $50". HUH? So you did half the job for them. And you had to work twice as much because they had a budget of doing $50 an hour.
Anyway. Hopefully many people are reading this. If i would have known this early on i would have been a much happier person. Its bad situations like mixing friends with business that makes business people cold and heartless. When they have people that come in that they consider friends backstab them it makes them not care about friends anymore and just the business part. We have bills to pay and you little shit people trying to take advantage no longer mean a thing.
Avoiding those kinds of situations will help you keep friends and keep a positive look for them while your running the business.
Anyway. I would just like to say that one of the person that came in recently that i was interested in assisting did go to school. I believe it was recording workshop. He brought in a portfolio that i listened to. I honestly have to say that i was not impressed by that on the resume. Not that i disliked it, its just really not what caught my attention. If hes looking for assistant work the portfolio CD probably wasnt going to be amazingly impressive. I listened and i did like what i heard but it wasnt gonna make me say "Damn, hes got what it takes. Im gonna throw him on a few projects immediately." What i liked is when talking to him was that he was very skilled at customizing and building his own guitars. Not only that but he had a great collection of guitars and amps. I immediately see something that he can bring to the table at the studio. We have something we are both interested in and can trade for our time. Also, he has experience in working with tape machines. Alignment and tech stuff. I dont know if he is extremely experienced in this area, but if he can come in and help run and align tape machines on sessions then i would be happy for him to come in and do that with me.
Also, you mentioned there was somebody you work for that you kind of needed. Payments can be made in things other than money. The value of what he does for you can balance the value of what you do for him. If losing him is going to jepordize an operation you might not want to change anything. He might be giving you enough already.
I probably shouldnt post things that he did without his permission. But i believe he has a website that has samples that he has posted up. Heres a myspace account of his newest work. www.myspace.com/griffinbeats . The pictures there are my studio. Some old some new. All the beats were done by him. And he brings in MCs to do the rapping while he produces them and tells them what to do.
Danny
Its a tough situation. Especially with friends. Ive made alot of mistakes in the past with allowing friends to take advantage of their positions.
Friends are an absolute night mare in my opinion when it comes to recording. Especially if you own a pro studio. They are all going around and saying, "hey i know this guy who owns a nice studio, hes a good buddy of mine i bet i can get you a hook up." ..... Oh really? The best way to deal with them is to write up a studio policy. Have it actually written down. This is good for anybody actually. When somebody argues you can just say "Thats in my policy and it doesnt change." With friends it needs to be all or nothing when it comes to charging money. Dont ever ever go in between. Also, be careful on who you really think of as friends. Would a real friend really expect you to work hours on end for them for free? No they should be willing to pay you because you are a friend. Basically what i mean by all or nothing and no in between is this. If your going to charge them at all, charge them what you would charge anyone else. If your rate is $10 an hour, charge them $10 an hour and follow through with it. If you decide you want to just help them out and give them a discount, just do it for free. Never say $5 dollars an hour. Why? If you do it for free, they ultimately do not have a say on how it turns out, or on how much work and time you put it. Because it was free they dont have any say on it. You can take as much time as you want or as little, and you work on your own time. Make that clear at the very beginning of the project. If its free, you are the one in charge, you are the one doing them the favor. When you charge full price, then its fair for them to treat you as any other client would treat you. If they dont like it then they are in charge of telling you to do it differently. Just like any other client. So you are seperated from the Friend issue right away. You treat it professionally this way and they will treat you professionally. Friend emotions dont get mixed this way. If they give you guff, its ok because you are getting paid for it just as much as any other client would pay. Now heres where the big no no is. Charging them say half of your regular rate to hook them up. Now you are in a situation where they still have a say for everything, they are still in charge of the project, and they can nag you about everything just as much as a regular client. Because of the fact they are paying money. They WILL abuse this and take the friend part out and treat you professionally, while your sitting there trying to hook them up as a FRIEND. Your mixing too worlds. As long as they are paying you they are not caring about the friend issue. And waht sucks for you, you are not getting paid enough for the issues that will come up. I guarantee their will be more issues this way too. They will completely abuse their position and you will get your ass kicked. Just keep it completely free as a friend helping a friend, or full out and keep it professional. Never mix friends with business. Again, if you are charging them full rate. At the end you can always cut them a deal when it comes time to pay because they are friends. This way it looks more like this, "We went and got $50 an hour work done for us and he gave it to use for $25." Then the value of your work just sky rocketted. Instead of them look at this "He hooked us up by doing $25 dollars an hour value of work instead of $50". HUH? So you did half the job for them. And you had to work twice as much because they had a budget of doing $50 an hour.
Anyway. Hopefully many people are reading this. If i would have known this early on i would have been a much happier person. Its bad situations like mixing friends with business that makes business people cold and heartless. When they have people that come in that they consider friends backstab them it makes them not care about friends anymore and just the business part. We have bills to pay and you little shit people trying to take advantage no longer mean a thing
. Avoiding those kinds of situations will help you keep friends and keep a positive look for them while your running the business.
Anyway. I would just like to say that one of the person that came in recently that i was interested in assisting did go to school. I believe it was recording workshop. He brought in a portfolio that i listened to. I honestly have to say that i was not impressed by that on the resume. Not that i disliked it, its just really not what caught my attention. If hes looking for assistant work the portfolio CD probably wasnt going to be amazingly impressive. I listened and i did like what i heard but it wasnt gonna make me say "Damn, hes got what it takes. Im gonna throw him on a few projects immediately." What i liked is when talking to him was that he was very skilled at customizing and building his own guitars. Not only that but he had a great collection of guitars and amps. I immediately see something that he can bring to the table at the studio. We have something we are both interested in and can trade for our time. Also, he has experience in working with tape machines. Alignment and tech stuff. I dont know if he is extremely experienced in this area, but if he can come in and help run and align tape machines on sessions then i would be happy for him to come in and do that with me.
Also, you mentioned there was somebody you work for that you kind of needed. Payments can be made in things other than money. The value of what he does for you can balance the value of what you do for him. If losing him is going to jepordize an operation you might not want to change anything. He might be giving you enough already.
I probably shouldnt post things that he did without his permission. But i believe he has a website that has samples that he has posted up. Heres a myspace account of his newest work. www.myspace.com/griffinbeats . The pictures there are my studio. Some old some new. All the beats were done by him. And he brings in MCs to do the rapping while he produces them and tells them what to do.
Danny
