what is the best way to get a job as a engineer?

[darnold]

By the way, i think Griffin (my hip hop associate) is pickin up an 88 Korg Oasis soon. Should be a fun toy to play around with. Im excited to see what beats he will be able to pull out with it. Maybe he will even let me use it on a few projects.

Danny

 

[alevy]

The traks are real hot if yall need any remixes i'm willing to send yall a verse or something im trying to get on in any way possible. Damn... idaho is far from neworleans.lol! You have a e-mail address I can send a song of mines to. You can check me out and at the same time you might be able to tell me any obvious problems you hear with my mixdown.

 

[darnold]

You can send some stuff if youd like to skadarnold@gmail.com .

I will check them out when i get them transfered to the studio comp.

Danny

 

[alevy]

You should be getting the songs any second now these are some collaborations I did with one of my friends. Lol. Those damn friends

 

[alevy]

The songs made it to your mailbox?

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Interns....

I could go on and on about interns, but I'll keep it brief. Interns can be useful to a studio--basically it's free labor. But you have to bring something to the table. Be a good musician, know MIDI inside and out, have connections that lead to paying clients, know how to tune a drum kit in 5 minutes flat or SOMETHING that makes you an asset.

The "guy off the street that knows some mixin' and recordin' stuff" just ain't going to cut it.

The other thing is don't be a lazy ass. My number one complaint with every intern I've worked with is that they don't get motivated because they're not getting "paid." They bail last minute on sessions that I was counting on them to be present at for lugging drums or getting my Subway order in, or doing some routine editing while I tweak guitar sounds.

Right now I have two guys that I've known for a few years that tend to drag their feet when it comes to getting in the studio and buffing their mixing skills. I spent hours creating these practice mix sessions for them so they can practice mixing and they barely touch 'em. It's stupid. They could be logging 5-10 hours mix time on *real* practice sessions but they'd rather screw around with their band.

That's another thing--if you want to record KISS YOUR BAND GOODBYE. View it as a conflict of interests. If you are focusing on your band you aren't focusing on the client's band. I'm not saying you can't do both (one day), just not while you are attempting to establish yourself.

And get more clients.

Clients is the name of the game in this biz.

I'm bringing on a 20,000 dollar client this week--a large non-denominational church that wants to record this huge album of their choir. They're talking (but hey, maybe just talk) about doing this every year like he did at his previous church down in Florida. Get something half as juicy and you'll have a full time recording gig before anyone with a signed bird cage liner... oops, I mean a degree in recording.

Cold hard truth in this (and any) biz--money talks, bullshit walks. If you want any chance to do anything you gotta go out there and get the money. Also remember the second rule: the more you do, the more you get to do.

I started out "professionally" 3 years ago using a MOTU 824 II, a G3 running Waves Platinum and renting mics. I went out and got clients, kept busy, did some free gigs early on, and now I'm working on a ProTools HD 4 system with every plugin available.

And I'm not even a great engineer. All I did was work hard, all the time, and GOT THE BUSINESS.

 

[alevy]

Thanks cloneboy! Wow... you've came a long way in a short time. I think I will do some school still before I attempt to be an intern. Or at least get good at one of things you mentioned.To be honest at this moment, I dont have anything to offer. I'm eager and money is not an issue as long as im learning im gaining. Maybe not financially but i am gaining something. Thanks a lot. I just gotta find out what I kind do so I can bring soemthing to the table. Man i love this place. You guys are giving me hope I have been trying to stay positive but I didn't know anybody that i could learn from now I feel like I have a blueprint on my next step. Thank you guys your advice is not in vain.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

If you *can* learn from someone that has stuff worthwhile to teach by all means do it. I was never in that position to learn from anyone else and am for the most part self-taught.

The good thing about being self-taught is that you will make lots of mistakes and learn ways not to do things, allowing you to develop your own way a little better. The bad thing is that you will make a number of dumb mistakes along the way. And it takes a long time to learn.

Always try to "push" your envelope of skill to get better. This can be semi-disastrous at times though. I had a pretty bad run a number of months ago as I was trying tons of new techniques out and many were "failed" experiments sonically. Heck, I did the extreme mistake of posting one here and it was universally slammed.

When trying to put together a "resume" of sorts look for the best bands you can find and record them for little cost or free. Better musicians will make you sound better as an engineer. However, make sure that you can still make passable stuff happen with the typical less-than-stellar type of client.

 

[IronFlippy]

IMHO credentials don't matter in this biz. Either you can do the work or not, either you can make clients happy or not, either you are easy to work with or not... those are more important than any degree.

However, if you learned these things along the way it will help out just fine.

Recording is ultimately about a lot more than you can learn in a classroom or from reading a book (although both can be useful). In my experience the people that are best at recording were first and foremost good listeners long before they even picked up an instrument or became interested in audio.

So to answer your question--the degree won't help you, but your knowledge will.

If you can use one word to describe my life, it would be music. I'm a musician and have been around musicians for my entire life. The degree is something that I thought might give me the edge over someone else for a position. I know that experience and connections will make or break you, but the degree is an additional component.

Imagine this: You're hiring an assistant for your studio. Only 2 people apply, both with excellent experience. One of them has a degree in audio engineering but the other doesn't. Who do you hire? That's what I'm trying to get at.

My connections are limited, but not non-existant. With enough work, I should be able to find something decent somewhere.

Again, music is my passion, my life. I'm doing everything I can to get into this professionally.

EDIT: After reading all of these posts, I feel like I am wasting my time at school. You're all putting it down as if it won't get you anywhere. I mean, learning via college has gotta help, right?

 

[darnold]

I think going to school for something in a different but related field will get more attention and pose more useful than actual recording school.

Say something in electrical engineering or just plain music performance. I would rather see music performance on a resume myself with minor in electrical engineering. Even notice how every engineer at Abbey Road is a DR in Physics?

No doubt i would chose someone with a higher education in something related. I even met a guy not too long ago who graduated from Full Sail and hasnt been able to find work. Because theirs plenty other (say 30000 maybe?) so called graduates looking for work. I see it as its going to be the one who has the real life experience is going to take the seat at the controls. Espcially when hear stuff from the people who went to these schools. Definately not bad. After all, they are working on the most top of the line equipment. But still not what i would consider a graduate with a degree in the line having. Its like you go to school to get a degree to be a pro in your field. But in this field, you get out and you find out you still need the basic experience that you missed while going to school. And guess what, i can bet not one of those people get out and actually work on a 48 Channel Neve with a full blown protools HD4 rig and a seperate room with an SSL for mixing. They better have the skills to make the lesser superior stuff sound great.

Again, I had a guy bring in a resume a few weeks ago that had graduated from a school. With a CD of stuff i was only half impressed by. Definately has a spark of talent but still needs a bit of improvement. So thats why he wants to assist here. Great. But the whole degree thing didnt even appeal to me. If i heard something trully incredible and i new that everyone who was coming out of these schools were turning into incredible engineers it would probably be one of the top priorities to look for on the list. What interested me the most is his Degree in Philosophy. I want him to come in just so i can get into some philosophy talks and stuff like that.

Maybe its not a complete waist of time. But so far what i see is that the schools are somewhat misleading. Take that money you were going to spend on school and pay an engineer to let you hang around the studio and have him teach you what he knows. Rent out the studio yourself and start bringin in bands yourself, and then pay the studio owner to assist YOU. You could do that with that kind of money. My thinking is you probably would learn more by doing that.

Danny

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

If you can use one word to describe my life, it would be music. I'm a musician and have been around musicians for my entire life. The degree is something that I thought might give me the edge over someone else for a position. I know that experience and connections will make or break you, but the degree is an additional component.

Almost everyone in this field is a musician. Not being one hurts you big time, but being one is typical. Since music and engineering is something you either "have" or "don't have" the degree is moot; either you have "it" or not. The degree is besides the point.

Virtually none of the big name musicians have musical degrees. Most big name audio engineers don't either (but they will often have apprenticeships at large studios or other big name engineers).

The one thing that will give you an edge is the ability to call up a studio a few times a year with a band that wants **YOU** to produce and record them. Bring a studio lots of business and you'll get your foot in the door.

In today's lean music world, with all the competition of small home recording studios and DIY'ers, the ability to generate and keep business is very important.

So do all the other stuff if you want, but if you feel confident in your abilities now you need to be out there marketing yourself and getting the biz. Sitting around waiting for clients to come to you is NOT the way to go about things....

 

[fraserhutch]

I'm still of the belief that you get a degree to learn how to learn as well as to learn.

If you think you can develop skills you need going to school, then it is not a waste of time.

However, as is true in ANY ***"craftsman" field, a degree will only get your foot in the door if there is a shortage of experienced individuals. In my experience, generally the individual with the proven experience will win out almost everytime.


*** this is not a deprecation - I am merely differentiating between arts-like and purely academic type occupations where this would not necessaily hold true.