What IS saturation (analog) and how does it work?

[DaveDrummer]

So the tape is naturally compressed if its saturated?

 

[regebro]

Reg any difference between input and output is distortion in the literal sense. Distortion does not mean only crackling sounds. Mild tape compression is indeed distortion and has it's own warmth.

I know, but it's common to use "distortion" as meaning what you do with a tube amp.

 

[regebro]

So the tape is naturally compressed if its saturated?

Yup. You get a very transparent and soft compression. I always pushed my casette tapes as hard as I could back in the good old 80's when I was using 4-tracks, and I never ever noticed the compression effect until I read about it, and listened very carefully.

 

[DaveDrummer]

Yup. You get a very transparent and soft compression. I always pushed my casette tapes as hard as I could back in the good old 80's when I was using 4-tracks, and I never ever noticed the compression effect until I read about it, and listened very carefully.

from what I understand, cassette tapes show only traces of this saturation thing.

 

[regebro]

Well, I didn't do any scientific testing, I could have been imagining it.

In any way, I did noticed that the harder I pushed the tape, the better it sounded, up until you started noticing the clipping.

 

[jake-owa]

Cassette saturation is very real.

I am using my old Yamaha MT120 4 track (everything else is packed) to practice some riffing and I gotta say it sounds great. I think the amount of tape compression would be relative to the factors of tape width and thickness/magnetic strength of headstack.
It's not some magical feature of large format tape. It's less noticable in cassette (speculation here) probably because the narrow tape width causes it to saturate almost instantly. It takes much less voltage to max 1/64" than 1/16".

It is like some magical wall that gives and give/*SCKRACKLE*...oops.

 

[DaveDrummer]

Someone told me that a lot of the new digital recorders have software or a hardware chip that makes them simulate the response of tape. is this even possible?

 

[kylen]

I've been giving this thing a workout lately to 're-amp' some hard sounding digital tracks:

http://www.tapeop.com/magazine/bonus/dbx386.html

Don't forget besides tape a good sounding tape machine has transistors or tubes and maybe even a transformer (?) so there's lots of stuff to color the sound. Getting a broken transport that has working tubes is a fun thing I've been thinking about doing and just using the pre-amp.

Somebody mentioned PSP Vintage Warmer that's got the computer simulated saturation. Ruby tube (VST) is free I think that's a fun thing to toy around with:
http://www.orion-central.com/reviewrubytube.shtml

I just got the Warmtone (DX) I think has a demo:
http://www.aipl.com/warmtone.html

Endorphin has some saturation on it:
http://www.orion-central.com/reviewendorphin.shtml

You got tube and tape saturation, I think there's a type of transistor that has a good sounding non-linear zone (FET, I guess ?) - I don't understand transformer saturation yet (couldn't recognize it). Then there's that non-linear opto thing some compressors have that's cool too - I think digitalfishphones Blockfish compressor (VST) has the opto curve.

I'm starting to think that my computer based saturation plugins need a pretty well balanced mix so you don't push into them as hard as an analog outboard piece. Pushing individual tracks into computer saturation is probably a different story...

Davedrummer -
I think the comment you made about a DSP chip that 'simulates' tape saturation will be mostly just a simulation. Not to say it won't sound good in other respects but by definition it will be different. Wouldn't it be a kick if you opened one up and there was a little tape loop in there ! Ha Ha Now I'm thinking that Space Echo I've got sittin across the room might be good for some fun, hmmm...

Here's to [good sounding] tape saturation !
kylen

 

[dean1964]

I have a lexicon Core 2 that has a jumper on it that enables DBX (hey...that's what it says.) soft knee compression to emulate tape saturation. It definitely has its own sound.

Cheers!
Adam

 

[kylen]

The Lexicon Core2 Desktop Audio System offers complete, powerful and affordable interfacing for your computer, with connections for four channels of analog in, eight channels of analog out, eight channels of ADAT™ digital I/O, and a stereo S/PDIF pair.
Beyond powerful I/O, audio performance is the highest quality, with ultra wide-range 24-bit A/D and D/A converters featuring selectable dbx Type IV™ soft knee limiting on every input channel to simulate tape compression and provide 4dB of improved headroom. The Core2 System ships with Syntrillium's Cool Edit Pro/SE™.

...cool Dean - Turn it on - how's it sound ? That's what I have on the dbx386 (just A/D)... kylen

 

[jake-owa]

I have a lexicon Core 2 that has a jumper on it that enables DBX (hey...that's what it says.) soft knee compression to emulate tape saturation. It definitely has its own sound.

Cheers!
Adam

Yeah, but you need the magic computer for it to work in!
I tried like five systems before giving up on the Lexicon recording card.

 

[kylen]

Well I reamped a full mix thru the dbx386 last night. The mix had the vocals too hot around 4KHz. It turned the vocals into silk (they were harsh before) - I'm going to listen to it some more tonight because I want to round the bass a bit.

The dbx386 also has a tube front end so it may be a combination of things but there's some tape saturation happening there.

I also added an RNC1773 (supernice mode - no GR lites) and an RG expander (2-3db) to the dbx insertloop but I don't think that's what I was hearing. Definitely the silk of tube/tape saturation.

I take it back now - I guess a chip can add good sounding tape saturation !

Next I just have to figure out how hard I want to push into it - time to get out the white/pink noise and spectrum analyzers so I can see what I'm doing and calibrate my controls a bit. What fun !

kylen