What drums to buy for recording.

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capnkid

capnkid

Optimus Prime
I will be recording Rock mostly and other types as I get the feel for them.

Does maple record as good as birch?
Do oversized drums record as good as a typical 5 piece?

Also I will sneak this in: How do sabian AA's compare to Zildjian A's and paiste 2002's?
 
capnkid said:
I will be recording Rock mostly and other types as I get the feel for them.

Does maple record as good as birch?
Do oversized drums record as good as a typical 5 piece?

Also I will sneak this in: How do sabian AA's compare to Zildjian A's and paiste 2002's?
Click to expand...


Define "Oversized" drums. Large diameter drums do not close mic very well. If I were shooting for the modern "radio friendly" drum sound, I would either get a v-drum kit and just use their sounds, or I'd get the following sizes:
depth X diameter (because I'm "Old School" and that was how it was written up until the 90's :p )

Kick 16" x 20"
Snare 5" x 14"
Tom 1 * x 10"
Tom 2 * x 12"
Tom 3 * x 14"
Tom 4 * x 16"

(* being whatever depth you like - personally, I'd go with shorter toms because they have more of a defined pitch because the shallower shell allows the drum to react faster.)

These sizes will close mic extremely well.

If I were after a big "bombastic" natural drumsound such as Bonham, or Cozy Powell (Rainbow) I'd go with bigger drums and just use kick, snare, and overhead mics, but I'd definitely use a Kickdrum tunnel on the kick to help catch more of its "punch" in the mic.)


Having repaired and built drums over the last 19 years - I really don't put a whole lot of emphasis on shell material, but that's just me. I prefer Maple over Birch, and to some degree prefer the brightness of metal or acrylic shells to wood. So, to compensate - when I built my own kit, I sanded & coated the inside of the shells so they would be really bright and have a lot of attack to them. Maple is a bit brighter than Birch, while Birch has a more "equalized" sound (or so they claim) - personally, I think Birch just sounds more dull than Maple.

I'd take the 2002's, but I'm a Paiste man.:D
I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Sabian AA's and the Zildjian A's other than price - they are both made by members of the Zildjian family using the exact same bronze formula.



Tim
 
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For rock, At least a 22" kick drum and 16" floor tom. As for cymbals, the Sabian AA's are alot like the Zildjian A's and The Piaste 2002's are nice cymbals but brighter than the A's or AA's.
 
Tim Brown said:
Define "Oversized" drums. Large diameter drums do not close mic very well. If I were shooting for the modern "radio friendly" drum sound, I would either get a v-drum kit and just use their sounds, or I'd get the following sizes:
depth X diameter (because I'm "Old School" and that was how it was written up until the 90's :p )

Kick 16" x 20"
Snare 5" x 14"
Tom 1 * x 10"
Tom 2 * x 12"
Tom 3 * x 14"
Tom 4 * x 16"

(* being whatever depth you like - personally, I'd go with shorter toms because they have more of a defined pitch because the shallower shell allows the drum to react faster.)

These sizes will close mic extremely well.

If I were after a big "bombastic" natural drumsound such as Bonham, or Cozy Powell (Rainbow) I'd go with bigger drums and just use kick, snare, and overhead mics, but I'd definitely use a Kickdrum tunnel on the kick to help catch maore of its "punch" in the mic.)


Having repaired and built drums over the last 19 years - I really don't put a whole lot of emphasis on shell material, but that's just me. I prefer Maple over Birch, anbd to some degree prefer the brightness of metal or acrylic shells to wood. So, to compensate - when I built my own kit, I sanded & coated the inside of the shells so they would be really bright and have a lot of attack to them. Maple is a bit brighter than Birch, while Birch has a more "equalized" sound (or so they claim) - personally, I think Birch just sounds more dull than Maple.

I'd take the 2002's, but I'm a Paiste man.:D
I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Sabian AA's and the Zildjian A's other than price - they are both made by members of the Zildjian family using the exact same bronze formula.



Tim
Click to expand...

I feel that maple has a sweeter sound, more lively than birch. Birch still sounds really nice (my set is an old pure birch tama superstar). Depends on your budget. If you go for maple, I say go with either the SOnor Force 3005 or Mapex Pro M (personally, I prefer the 3005, but its your choice). Unless of course, if you wanna go for really higher up sets, I just named 2 budget sets. As for cymbals... Sabian and the new ZIldjians dont have the same beautiful tone of paiste signature... as for 2002, the only cymbals I have that are made from 2002 alloy is my 3000 novo china, which sounds great. SO I would say that 2002 are also really nice, and less expensive than signatures.
 
Tim Brown said:
Define "Oversized" drums. Large diameter drums do not close mic very well. If I were shooting for the modern "radio friendly" drum sound, I would either get a v-drum kit and just use their sounds, or I'd get the following sizes:
depth X diameter (because I'm "Old School" and that was how it was written up until the 90's :p )

Kick 16" x 20"
Snare 5" x 14"
Tom 1 * x 10"
Tom 2 * x 12"
Tom 3 * x 14"
Tom 4 * x 16"

(* being whatever depth you like - personally, I'd go with shorter toms because they have more of a defined pitch because the shallower shell allows the drum to react faster.)

These sizes will close mic extremely well.

If I were after a big "bombastic" natural drumsound such as Bonham, or Cozy Powell (Rainbow) I'd go with bigger drums and just use kick, snare, and overhead mics, but I'd definitely use a Kickdrum tunnel on the kick to help catch maore of its "punch" in the mic.)


Having repaired and built drums over the last 19 years - I really don't put a whole lot of emphasis on shell material, but that's just me. I prefer Maple over Birch, anbd to some degree prefer the brightness of metal or acrylic shells to wood. So, to compensate - when I built my own kit, I sanded & coated the inside of the shells so they would be really bright and have a lot of attack to them. Maple is a bit brighter than Birch, while Birch has a more "equalized" sound (or so they claim) - personally, I think Birch just sounds more dull than Maple.

I'd take the 2002's, but I'm a Paiste man.:D
I don't see a whole lot of difference between the Sabian AA's and the Zildjian A's other than price - they are both made by members of the Zildjian family using the exact same bronze formula.



Tim
Click to expand...

I was thinking of the mapex pro m rock set 24" 18" 16" 13".
If I only use a kick and snare mic, how many overheads would be good?
 
capnkid said:
I was thinking of the mapex pro m rock set 24" 18" 16" 13".
If I only use a kick and snare mic, how many overheads would be good?
Click to expand...


You could just use 1 overhead, but since emphasis seems to be placed on "Stereo", you may want a pair.
I'm fine with my drumtracks in mono, but my bass player likes them in stereo.



Tim
 
capnkid said:
I was thinking of the mapex pro m rock set 24" 18" 16" 13".
Click to expand...
That's a great set up size wise. Very versatile. I agree with Tim, the shallower toms sound better and have a more defined sound than "power toms."
 
tilinmyowngrave said:
I still say that you try out the Sonor force 3005. DOnt buy it... just try it out. Its a very nice set, especially for the price.
Click to expand...


How's he going to try it out? most places don't let you play on the drums. In fact I only know of a handfull that do, one of them being the dreaded "Guitar Center", and there's always some 10-year old fat kid who can't play bashing on them at the GC here. :p

Those Sonor's and the Mapex's are probably about the same. The one thing I do have against Sonor is that they are made in China now.



Tim
 
Tim Brown said:
How's he going to try it out? most places don't let you play on the drums. In fact I only know of a handfull that do, one of them being the dreaded "Guitar Center", and there's always some 10-year old fat kid who can't play bashing on them at the GC here. :p

Those Sonor's and the Mapex's are probably about the same. The one thing I do have against Sonor is that they are made in China now.



Tim
Click to expand...

Most of the time the drums at GC have stock heads on them and sound like crap. I couldn't get over how poorly tuned the drums were at the GC I last visited. My crap Hohner set sounded better than some of their more expensive kits.
It makes it hard to decide what to buy. I also have this problem in the bass department. Most of the basses were set up so poorly that I found it difficult to find something I liked.
 
EdWonbass said:
Most of the time the drums at GC have stock heads on them and sound like crap. I couldn't get over how poorly tuned the drums were at the GC I last visited. My crap Hohner set sounded better than some of their more expensive kits.
It makes it hard to decide what to buy. I also have this problem in the bass department. Most of the basses were set up so poorly that I found it difficult to find something I liked.
Click to expand...

Ya! it's a'll bullshit. how'd John bonham and Mitch Mitchell get so good?
 
capnkid said:
Ya! it's a'll bullshit. how'd John bonham and Mitch Mitchell get so good?
Click to expand...

When you say that, do u mean to ask how did their drums sound so good or how did they themselves play so well? I have the theory for how they played so well. Its called LSD. (But hey, thats just a guess).
 
tilinmyowngrave said:
...I have the theory for how they played so well. Its called LSD...
Click to expand...
I think it was PCP (Practice, Constant Practice!)
 
u can always try to buy a PDP maple set... GC had one for 650, with an extra floor tom.. so it wa sa 6 piece maple Set..
Anyways there's a million other things with recording such as if its a maple set, if it is wrapped or if its all pure maple.. Birch back in the 70's and 80s was used to record for drums cause it was easy to control and maintain the sound without much eq'ing.. But nowadays Maple seems to be the big thing and everyone has to have a maple set, and I've heard that they are alot better and more verstaile in the sound u want then a birch.. However if its a wrapped maple shell the sound is more muffed than a Complete maple oil based paint type shell.. But i haven't recorded a maple set yet.. So i'm not sure.. But check out at GC if u can some of there sets. like everyone said the heads are stock and poorly tuned, but get to know some of the people working there and they can kick out all the "big" kids who can't play for crap.. lol!.. Good luck though
 
The GC around me has an excellent drum department, they actually have very talented drummers working there. Almost everytime I go in they're switching heads out and trying different tunings. I just usually have the guy I know best come over help me tune, last kit I played on had a fresh set of G1's on it. So I guess it all depends on what GC you go to. I've recorded many types of kits, the first few I had experience with were fusion maple kits, which honestly I didn't like the tom tone on at all, I've also had a few birch kits in the I did like but they were also fusion, I think I just don't like fusion. A couple of the guys that brought their own kits, which happened to be fusion also, ended up choosing my 1982 Tama Imperialstars which are Mahogany, the sound I get out of these drums is phenomenal. They're huge and deep yet very easy to control the tone, they tune up very easily I just can't say enough good about them. When I first bought them I was convinced they were cheapo tama's from back in the day but after doing some research this kit was actually favored by a majority of the famous drummers back in the day including Bozzio and Uhlrich. Most of those guys eventually went to Maple, but I'm sticking with my kit for now.
 
I can't say I have the greatest opinions on drum brands and such... but my two cents: if you want good tone from the drums, make sure they're well isolated (rubber mounts, rim-mounted toms). Also, your snare is going to be one of the most important (and difficult) sounds you'll get out of your set - make sure you're happy with it, even if it takes bugging a salesman to help you tune it/change heads/etc. And finally, don't skimp on cymbals. I'd say that, more than any other part, crappy cymbals are easiest to detect in a recording. Pick them out yourself, by hand, in a store - I would NEVER suggest mail-ordering any cymbals. Sounds from good cymbals are very very unique - you can buy a $300 cymbal that sounds terrible or a $75 cymbal that sounds great... just listen to them. :) Have fun!
 
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