What console would fit what I need?

[fldrummer]

I'm thinking in the next year or so I'll really be getting into recording. Their arn't really any good studios local around here. I wanted to create a studio that if a person would look at a picture of it they'll say "wow! that looks badass! I wan't to record their!" Blue bears looks pretty badass to me. So something like that. I want a mixer that can do alot of things... I want

at least 32 channels,
all w/ mic pres/inserts,
6 aux / 8 bus,
automation would be nice,
so would dynamics
good eq

I was looking at the soundcraft ghost but I just want something more to it. A used tascam m5000 could work. The Sony DMX-R100 would be nice if it had all 48 channels w/ mic pres and inserts and adat lightpipe but those cards for it would cost more then the console itself. I'm trying to stay under 20,000 so any ideas? Should I be looking into another direction?

 

[chessrock]

If you can make due w/ 24-channels, I'd have a good look at the Elite II.

It's one of those things where if I know a studio has one, it gives them a little extra credibility -- at least to some people it might make a difference.

http://www.sytek-audio-systems.com/products/consoles/elite2/

 

[Massive Master]

If you want "wow" factor AND usability, at least try the ghost - You can pull 8 or 12 strips and have BurrBrowns & caps popped in the preamps (which are already pretty schveet) by the old Soundcraft techs.

Throw that in an Argosy console housing - Maybe a patch bay on one side, a sunken monitor on the other...

's pretty sweet...

Then, you'll still have cash for some mic's and sweet Amek 9098 preamps, maybe a Langevin Vocal Combo... REAL cool stuff! ADAM's, Neumanns, te list goes on.

Now, you've got "wow" AND "holy cow" at the same time.

Or, you could find a nice deal on a used Amek or TAC Scorpion or something...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com

 

[TexRoadkill]

Fldrummer - Where does a 16yr old get $20k these days?

 

[regebro]

Although it's cool idea to get into recording, and I will certainly not discourage you from that, most of it is not in the equipment, but in the engineer. So even if you DO build a cool studio which says "Wow!" it's gonna sound like shit, if you are getting into recording in a year or so.

Instead, I recommend you to get into recording NOW!

But start with cheap stuff. First try out to record with your computer. Get n-tracks and that free version of protools and try things out. You'll need an SM57, a mic stand, a cheap preamp and some headphones to start with.

Then try to use a standalone digital recorder and see if you like that better or worse than recording with the computer.

Then go with whatever you like best.

If you enjoy it and think it's fun; buy some good monitors. Then you go from there. After recording yourself and your friends for five years, you can start thinking of charging. If you see that you actually get some jobs that way, you can think of building a proper studio.


Good luck.

 

[fenix]

Fldrummer - Where does a 16yr old get $20k these days?

from Dad, of course.


You might be able to find a neotek for 20k

 

[fldrummer]

I am into recording now. I have a Aardvark Q10 that I have been recording with. I already recorded a whole album for a local church band that's going to sell it when they go on tour around the country. Their's no way I would spend ANY money on anything with out knowing and reading everything about it. I've been reading on this forum and alot of other places for maybe 5 months. I'm really starting to understand the whole theory on everything. I know somebody who knows somebody that's in with a producer thats worked with bands like the Eagles and Chicago and I might be able to hang with him which would be great. I might lean towards the Ghost maybe but I still want to see all that is out their.

Fldrummer - Where does a 16yr old get $20k these days?

Well....My dad in no way would spend a penny on anything if he couldn't make money with it. If it seems that their is a profit in a recording studio he would invest into it. He would never go "Here's $20,000 now go out their and buy alot of gear!"

I hope nobody here thinks that I'm some rich spoiled kid that wants to buy a whole bunch of cool gear! I just wanted to see if their was anything good out their that would stick out from the others and maybe be a feature that could help get more bussiness.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Most musicians only know one brand - Pro Tools. The only way the equipment would create business is if the place was so well equipped that other engineers are calling you to use it. A place like that would cost a few hundred grand just in the building and wouldn't include any equipment.

If a studio is sucessfull it is because of the engineers not the equipment.

 

[Zeppelin456]

I know somebody who knows somebody that's in with a producer thats worked with bands like the Eagles and Chicago and I might be able to hang with him which would be great.

hahahahahaha save your shekels

 

[fldrummer]

Don't worry..I'm not really counting on that comming through.


I know ProTools is the thing to get. I just like the more analoge feel when mixing down. I'd use the computer for plug-ins and stuff like that but I want to mixdown the analoge way. hell..maybe even get a tape recorder and use that.

Tex,

I know what you're talking about when saying that it's not the gear but the people running it. That's why I am always learning all over the net and around town seeing how things work, why they work, how they should work. I'm trying to learn as much as possiable to be a good engineer.

 

[Zeppelin456]

I know ProTools is the thing to get. I just like the more analoge feel when mixing down. I'd use the computer for plug-ins and stuff like that but I want to mixdown the analoge way. hell..maybe even get a tape recorder and use that.

Tex,

I know what you're talking about when saying that it's not the gear but the people running it. That's why I am always learning all over the net and around town seeing how things work, why they work, how they should work. I'm trying to learn as much as possiable to be a good engineer.

I think the point is though (not to discourage you from buying good stuff necesarily) but the really good engineers have lots of experience and that's not something you can get enough of in a year, two years, five years, whatever. I'm still a newbie compared to alot of the guys here and I'm not counting on really being amazing until I truly understand the craft and have experienced almost every type of problem I can in the studio. Regardless of how hard youve been working I doubt you can do that in a short period of time.

 

[fldrummer]

I know I'll never stop learning. I was just thinking that if I am going to have a studio it's good to have high quality stuff now because in the end you're going to wan't to upgrade all that shit if you have it. Now I don't really have to worry about upgrading but on adding to it. In everythnig I do..If I'm going to go I'm gonna go big or not at all. Just the way I am I guess.

 

[chessrock]

Well....My dad in no way would spend a penny on anything if he couldn't make money with it. If it seems that their is a profit in a recording studio he would invest into it.

Hmmm. I hope your Dad researches this thoroughly and objectively. Generally, when I think of profitable business ventures, $20K for a recording studio with a 16-year old kid who's looking to upgrade his Aardvark Q10 . . . usually doesn't qualify as a sound investment.

He might consider calling the IRS or some of the local Chambers of Commerce . . . perhaps talk with some of the loan officers for major banks. Ask questions like: "Do most recording studios generally tend to be viable, profitable entities, or simply very expensive hobbies?" Perhaps he could ask an expert in stocks and/or mutual fund investing how he/she would feel about the financial prospects of such a venture (?) before he jumps in.

I don't mean to discourage you in any way. If recording is what you want to do, then by all means keep it on your radar screen. Keep practicing . . . keep learning. Look for possible internships or recording schools, etc. But I'm going to give you the most important advice anyone can give you: Have your dad take that $20K and put it towards college.

 

[fldrummer]

I have thought about recording school. I live an hour from Full Sail. I just got a letter maybe a week ago that they are raising the price to $38,000 for 2 years in the recording arts. Now...I could think of alot of things to do with 38k. Is that worth it?

 

[chessrock]

Probably not. Most fullsail grads I talk to are working for Guitar Center.

I'd recommend coming to Chicago and checking out a place called Columbia University.

If you look at their curriculum, you'll notice that a lot of what they teach is geared towards Film and post-production for video. That's not to say that you have to go in to film . . . but if you learn about it from that angle, then you've got yourself a backup plan. Think about it: commericals, jingles, industrial video . . . all that jazz. Not particularly glamorous, but with that kind of background, you could at least fall back on something that could bring you a steady paycheck and health insurance. You might even have a shot at keeping a girlfriend for more than a few months at a time or even (gasp!) getting married or starting a family so you can have little Fldrummers running around.

And the really nice part about it is that you don't have to give up your dreams of producing actual music and real bands because a degree from Columbia should be more than adequate to get you in some doors at some of the big recording studios. In fact, check out Steve Albini's staff at Electric Audio:

http://www.electrical.com/staff.php

You'll notice Greg Norman, their main Staff Engineer, graduated from Columbia. And there are plenty more out there like him working for major recording studios accross the country.

 

[Massive Master]

One thing is for sure - There is NO SUBSTITUTE for practical experience.

Nothing against Columbia College - I know that they do a pretty good job with people who are "really hungry" for it. However, I've had interns from Columbia (some with papers) that were sonically dense as lead. They could tell me how many sabines of absorption a triangular 30/60/90 window with an open area of 12.395 feet had at 70 degrees and 44% relative humidity - But, they couldn't tell me if "that sounds good" or not. Know what I mean? Others that had their degrees obviously knew exactly what they were doing long before they entered the hallowed halls of C.C. They probably could have filled in for the instructor if he was out ill. Except maybe Malcolm (Chisholm). No substitute for him (R.I.P.). I pondered going there myself at one point - Just because of the Chisholm-inator.

I'm not saying to not further your education - It's a good thing. Just don't expect to be an "Audio Engineer" just because you have a degree in "Audio Engineering." It takes a lot more than that. Some of it can be trained & learned. Some of it really can't.

John

 

[regebro]

Boring reality check.

If you are gonna make a studio that is a sound business investment, you need to multiply the figures mentioned here with at least 100. Because you are gonna need a *studio* that is so good that other engineers go there, and you need to make your money from renting studio time only. That needs to be a bloody good studio.

Now, if YOU are the business investment, you don't need equipment, you need experience. And then you are back to what I said above: Buy new gear when the gear you have is stopping you from getting better.

And in that case, you probably won't need a 20k mixer for several years to come.

So just scratch all your plans on building a studio as an investment in a couple of years. It aint gonna happen.