What can I do with $5,000 to get a Home-Studio?

Oh yes, you asked about compression as well. I will not compare analogue tape and digital. Good analogue tape and good digital sounds different. Good tubes and good transistors sound different. Neither is better than the other in all aspect. It's a matter of taste. However, regardless of sound, digital is easier to maintain than analogue tape but soundwise, only different. However, I can say that recorders that use compressed data are not what I would recommend. Mainly because they're often pretty expensive and do not produce as good quality as they could without the compression. You know the saying "a chain is never stronger than it's weakest link". Well, the compression is definitely the weakest link. You know how MP3 files sound worse than CD, right? However, you can fit many more MP3s on one CD than original CD tracks. It's simply because the MP3s are heavily compressed. The compression in the stand-alone hard disk recorders is not near as poor in quality as MP3. Not even close. BUT, something is gone forever as soon as you compress in the way these recorders do and unfortunately, it's sound quality. Compression can be done non-destructively, like WinZip, but that's another thing.
Good Advice Ola..

Another cool thing you can do to increase the number of tracks you can do is this..

Lets say you have recorded
1.Guitar (mic)
2.Guitar (pickup)

You can mix them up to get a good sound then Bounce them into one wav file. start a new enviroment and import that one file into it. and Wa La you have now turned 4 tracks into one to decrease the stress on your puter (Real good if you dont have the fastest puter) And you can go back and remix Later just keep all the mixes saved diff.. like name the first project Guitar. Then lets say later on down the road you think the bass is a little hot.. you can go back into that LSO (If you are using Logic) and change the Bass mix and then bounce it again. Add the rest of the stuff and finish mixing. I have a friend who has recorded 20 tracks with a ton of plugin's with a crappy puter using this method. Let me know if that made any sense at all. ;-)
Since I don't have a private orchestra, I think will never need at the same time all those channels. I did be speaking about having the possibility to have 16 independent channels, for recording and mixing. Now I understood better as it works. It would be impossible not to understand after your class (Ola).
About the compression, since I really want a sound of better quality as I can get, I have to work with no compression, even using a standa-alone HD recorder, isn't it? Yeah, I'm thinking I'm getting what I'm looking for here! Thank you all!
hey nandho:
I was working with analog, but know I want to do everything in the computer.
I think you can be a little more creative with the help of a computer.
you can get a really nice home studio with 5000.

mics, mixer, soundcard, computer.
maybe an analogue compressor, and your instruments.

plus, you can get some nice softwares, like sequencers.

I would have to agree with many of the people who have already said that a camputer based system is the way to go, and yes it is better quality then cassete.

You would possibly need a new HD, and a sound card. As you wouldn't play all instruments at the same time you might be able to get away with less than 8 inputs, and i am sure you wouldn't need digital. I think i would have to recomend the Midiman (www.midiman.com) Delta 44 or the Dman 2044, both cards have 4 inputs, but you can store many more inputs in your software on your computer.

Other than that you said you would want somthing more real, I would suggest a mixer, possibly a mickie (www.mackie.com) or a behringer, you really need to see what you need. If you do decide to get a mixer you may be able to get away with a smaller sound card, because you could use the inputs of your mixer and only use the main outs into your computer, then you could get possibly a Midiman Dman pci, Darla or Layla (www.echoaudio.com), according to how much money you have left.

For software you need to look around and possibly download demos to see which system you like best.

Other than that you need some mics and cables. Cables i will leave you to work out according to what you chose. For mics with the instruments you use, I would suggest a matching pair of large dyaphram condensors (possibly NT1's, NT2, AT4050's, AT4033...), a small dyaphram condensor (allowing that the guitars are acoustic, otherwise ignor these mics)(possibly NT3, AKGC3000...), and some other dymanic mics (sm57...). Also possibly a DI for the Bass could help.

Being a musician i'm sure you can work out which mic suites which applecation, so i won't go into that.

I arn't going to work out what it would all cost becuse i arn't sure what currency you are talking in and in Australia our prices will be different, i have tried to keep the price as low as possible. I hope this is a good start to your long journy into home recording.

With the information you have give us their are probobly over a milion possible ideas and you need to find the one that best suites you. I have tried to keep my solutions as simple as possible and i hope it helps. The more you get into it the more sense it will make.

If you need more help or cant understand what i'm saying feel free to email me (omnipotent@homerecording.net) or reply saying so.

I havn't drafted my post, because its too late and too long, so if their are any errors, please correct me. Theirs a good chance i havn't even answered the right question.

Good Luck! I hope you get what you need.
omnipotent :)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nandho:
I want to mount a home-studio, but I have only $5,000 for this. I'm thinking to buy all equipments in the E-bay site, as the products may be cheapest. What do I need? I'm only a musician, not an engineering. I want a 16 track one, It should be sufficient for me. Note that an used equipment can be found for a less than half of list prices, so I think I can purchase a multitracker, for example, for about $2,000, when it costs over $4000, brand new. If it's possible with $5000, what more equipments do I need to get a professional sound?
Sorry for my english,
Fernando Campos

Your English is just fine! Much better than I could communicate in your Language! Hahaha

Here's what I did:

I bought the following:
(2) DA-38 tascam Digital 8-tracks ($1,800.00 each NEW at musican's friend)
(1) Mackie 16x4 VLZ Rackmount mixer.(about $1,000.00 in a local music store)

This puts you at about $4,600.00 plus tax and shipping but you'll need Cables Mic's and any effects so it doesn't leave you much for that.

Originally, I ordered a Behringer Rackmount 16x4 Eurorack mixer (the 3242 or whatever it is-it's 16 INLINe channels, or 32 channels for mixdown). I was waiting for months, and the day that it was supposed to show up(Nov. 5th, 1999), it didn't. I called Musican's Friend, and they said, "it won't be in until
Dec. 29th, 1999".
I cancelled it, walked into my local music store and bought mackie then and there on the spot.

I bought 16 Y cords, and I have the recordes hooked up through my 16 channels via the Patch point. This isn't the greatest method-since all EQ'ing and effects have to be done AFTER it's on tape.
I then purchased a Carvin 8 Mic,8 Line stereo mixer(The Studio Mate, about $299.00) which I run my Drum mic's through. (2 kicks, Snare, and a Radioshack PZM on the ceiling for an overhead) I use the 2 effect send on this little mixer to send my Kick and Snare to individual tracks, and just use the Left out of the Stereo send for my Mono Composite. I mix the Mono by itself to sound good-then, I send my individual sends to the other 2 tracks.
Entire drumkit on 3 tracks, and it sounds great. No "Left and right panning of the toms"-but I don't care about that.

But, what I was going to say-is that I haven't used more than 8 Tracks yet!
I would have been better off putting that $1,800.00 dollars that went on the second DA-38, into some Mikes, Cables, and Compressors. Because my Cabeling wound up costing me $600.00 bucks!
I Bought HOSA Snakes(4 of them cost me like $38.00 each, Y cords( $10 eace for 16 of them) and a Patchbay, and a ton of 3' and 6' Patch cables.
I also bought a Behringer Virtualizer. Not bad, but I originally thought that it was going to be more of a "REAL Multi-effect" like an ART (6 effects at once per channel).

So it's not cheap-=but I could have gotten a few new mics, or at least 1 good Condenser or something like that. I'm still using my old mics, which I had from running sound.

Sorry this is so long.
Especially since this is my first post on here.

Hi all,

I recently recived an email reguarding this topic, and will post the questions and answers, for everyone following and learning from this thread.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
>The instruments I want to use is, basically: acoustic
>guitars (a lot); vocals; percussion; bass (eletric);
>eletric guitars; keyboards (not much); drums
>(programmable). Can the suggestion you made be
>addapted for this?

Yes, yes indeed. The set up was pretty broad and could definatly accomodate this.
According to your badget you have two main options to go with (that i can think of).

1) SOUNDCARD with four inputs(gives you more options with mixdown) these may include mona (www.echoaudio.com), delta44, delta66, dman 2044 (www.midiman.com) and many more. As long as you are not planning to go digital the delta44 or dman 2044 would probobly suit you best.

MIXER with as many channels as you could possibly need (according to the amount of instruments you would record at once) and mabey a few more, as well as four sub groups (each of which would be sent to your soundcard). A few mixers that may suite are the behrnigers (sorry, I can't remember the site) and mackie's, (www.mackie.com) possibly the PROVLA1604. You can also record more tracks by adding to your software package, ie. cubase/cakewalk.

MONITORS, either headphones or monitors. This part is really personal preferance, you should try before you buy. I use both haedphones and monitors, I use sennheiser (www.sennheiser.com) headphones, and Event 2020bass monitors (www.event1.com).

MICROPHONES, now this is the part that will make a big differance. Refer to this topic in the paragraph below.

2) SOUNDCARD 2 inputs, this is the option that is slightly cheaper and will work just as well alowing you arn't planning on altering the levels of each instrument after you have recorded them. I can suggest many soundcards (I have mentioned some in my origional post), but just about any will do.

MIXER, any will do (alowing it has as many channels as you would need at any nne time) but again look towards the links above for ideas (the sub groups arn't neccesary).

MONITORS, same as above.

MICROPHONES (This is my reccomended list based on past experiances, it could be altured in many ways)

1. 2 (or possibly more) *Large dyaphram condensor (it always helps to have a matching pair)
i. NT1 is cheap and has many great reviews, it is great value for money. (www.rode.com.au)
ii. NT2 is more expencive but is a better mic. It offers different patterns, and generaly sounds better on most things than the NT1. It is also great value for money. But be warned it is known that all of these sound slightly different.
iii. AT4033 these are also great mics, it sounds killer on electric guitar amps, but has a slightly exagurated mid response (if it bothers you).
vi. AT4050 is the same as AT4033 but offers change in patterns.
v. The list goes on... (akg c3000/c3000b are both options)

2. 2 (or possibly more) * Small Dyaphram condensor.
i. AKG C1000 (www.akgacoustics.com), This mic I use frequently but have found it just average.
ii. Rode NT3 (same as above) unfortuantly i have not had the chance to use this mic yet but i'm sure it is worth looking into.
iii. etc.

3. Some Dynamic mics just to have around for micing other instruments, as well as the ones already mentioned.
i. SM57, the standard in dynamic mics (www.shure.com)
ii. 421, a great mic but more expencive (www.sennheiser.com)
iii. Beta57 (similar to SM57)
vii. many more,

4. A good DI, these arn't mics but a important to have.
i. sansamp...
ii. ......

How To Mic Your Instruments
For positioning you will need to play around, I will give you a start by telling you what i would use on everything you have specified.

Acoustic guitars; Large or small dyaphram condensor (first choice), according to the sound you want. Possibly even ues both in some stereo pattern.

Vocals; For studio work nothing other than Large Dyaphram Condensors.

Percussion; one of the dynamic mics mentioned above on each drum, and a small dyaphram condensor on all rattlers, symbols, shakers, etc.

Bass (eletric); either the line out from your bass amp, or a good DI (ie. sansamp Bass driver DI)

Eletric guitars; Large dyaphram condensors (medium distance away) or dynamics (close micing).

Keyboards; Either through DI (not necacary) or just strait into the mixer.

Drums(programmable); Strait in aswell.

If I have over answered this topic I appologize, I am really just showing how this system can accomodate your needs.

>I noticed that you didn't mentioned any AKG microphone. The mics you mentioned are better?! Please, I'm a musician but I really don't exactly what I'll need.

I have used, and still use AKG microphones, but for your requirements I think the mics I mentioned above may work better. Also one of the small dyaphram condensors the C1000 is an AKG.

>If you can tell me how many and the exactly model of each mic and cable, I'll be very grateful.

Mics i have mentioned above; and for cables, all you need are XLR's from yor mics to your mixer, balanced jacks from your mixer to your soundcard, and the jack cables from your bass to DI to mixer or Keyboard to mixer.

>What do you think about eletronic drummers? If you think it can be a good solution for a small home studio, which model or mark you would recommend?

I have nothing wrong with electric drummers, however i have never really used one, so i am unable to suggest a modle.

The only thing i have against buying from online places, is that you don't get to hear what you are buying first, other than that it is no problem.

Cheers all! :)

P.S. I have not drafted this email, sorry.

[This message has been edited by omnipotent (edited 06-23-2000).]
DITTO........sorry for the spam, i think either this site or my computer has gone nuts.

[This message has been edited by omnipotent (edited 06-22-2000).]
God Dambit.... Stupid computer.... sorry for the repetitions. :o

[This message has been edited by omnipotent (edited 06-22-2000).]