What can I do with $5,000 to get a Home-Studio?

N

nandho

New member
I'm brazillian and I live in Brazil. I want to mount a home-studio, but I have only $5,000 for this. I'm thinking to buy all equipments in the E-bay site, as the products may be cheapest. What do I need? I'm only a musician, not an engineering. I want a 16 track one, It should be sufficient for me. Note that an used equipment can be found for a less than half of list prices, so I think I can purchase a multitracker, for example, for about $2,000, when it costs over $4000, brand new. If it's possible with $5000, what more equipments do I need to get a professional sound? I have to use some drum-machine, since I don't have space for a real one. Please, help me, since in Brazil is virtually impossible to get this kind of information and the equipments is very expensive here. I want to say, in addiction, that is NOT a commercial studio, It's just for use by myself and my friends.
Sorry for my english,
Fernando Campos
 
Gee, where is everybody? (hehe)
nandho...Check out the homepage of this website for the tons of information available.
 
Do you want a stand alone unit or can you use a computer? There are so many options:

Roland 1680
2 ADATS w/a board (probably not under $5000)

I thought I'd come up with more than that.

16 track reel to reel (won't happen)

YOu can get a pretty nice set-up for 5Gs though. That 1680 with a CDburner and expansion board could set you back $2500. Plus another $6 or 700 for monitors. About $300 for a decent mic and $200 for other mics. I don't know how much drum machines are. Oh, you'll need cables, too. But since you're a musician, you already know that...I hope.
 
Yes, I have a computer. Does it better to mount a computer musical system or a stand unit or a mix of two? A program like cakewalk can be more recommended with this money than buying the units separately? I really don't know anything about this, I just have a feeling that I can do good things producing music by myself, and I guess that this, today, can be more affordable than I thought a few years ago.
 
Hy Monty,
I've tried to do what you've suggested but I was lost in that jungle of equipments! I didn't simply know through where to begin, what I really need, and I thought was a good idea if someone who had a studio could help me. I want to have all of I need until october, when I will be moving out to a ranch.
Thanks, fernando
 
nandho, if you're wanting 16 tracks to begin with, then chances are you're gonna want more than that later...that's just the way it will go once you get into it...probably everybody here started with a a 2 track years ago, then 4, then 8, then computer....if it's just for yourself and friends and not a commercial venture, an 8 track would give you a lot of fun, and you can get more sounds out of it with bouncing tracks....or you could go digital multi-track...but if your computer meets multi track software specifications, you could get LOTS of tracks for a lot less money than buying a 16 track recorder....I don't know of anybody who's done 60 plus tracks on their computer, but supposedly it's possible depending on the unit and software...and your other recording needs such as some effects, compression etc would be included too, not to mention the editing made easier...just an opinion...gibs
 
I have a Tascam of 4 channels. It records on cassette, but the sound that I get from it is very distant of something professional. If you allow me to disagree, I didn't understand when you've said that 8 channels would be enough. If I have a simple music - 2 guitars, low, drum-machine, vocals and 3 or 4 backing vocals -, that no longer it would take the 8 channels? And where could I add some strings or percussion?
Then you do want to say that there is not any advantage in buying a multitracker? And do they continue manufacturing those tape recorders? (excuse me if I am being hard, but my English doesn't allow me to be less direct, it is only a vocabulary lack, ok?)
But thank you very much for the information, I will pay more attention to the possibility of setting up a digital studio, I was very satisfied with the idea of buying a 16 channels. But I continue thinking 8 channels are not so much, even for a recording with friends...:> )
thank you
 
Only to correct what I've write above:
I have a Tascam of 4 channels. It records on cassette, but the sound that I get from it is very distant of something professional. If you allow me to disagree, I didn't understand when you've said that 8 channels would be enough. If I have a simple music - 2 guitars, bass, drum-machine, vocals and 3 or 4 backing vocals -, that no longer it would take the 8 channels? And where could I add some strings or percussion?
Then you do want to say that there is not any advantage in buying a multitracker? And do they continue manufacturing those tape recorders? (excuse me if I am being hard, but my English doesn't allow me to be less direct, it is only a vocabulary lack, ok?)
But thank you very much for the information, I will pay more attention to the possibility of setting up a digital studio, I was very satisfied with the idea of buying a 16 channels. But I continue thinking 16 channels are not so much, even for a recording with friends...:> )
thank you,
Fernando
 
Sorry nando, I didn't mean to imply that 8 would be enough for your needs, just that a 16 track is a lot of money, and believe me, when you get 16 tracks you'll want more...which is why the computer thing is a good alternative, gives lots of tracks and the machinery needs a lot less maintenance than a 16 track analog....it is possible to get close to a professional sound with an 8 track, but it takes lots of work to do it...I don't get a pro sound with my 8 track, although I enjoy it, but the noise level is always going to be way high and editing is a pain too, as is bouncing tracks only to lose a lot of sound quality....there are pros and cons with both ways, but digital will produce a better sound for most people...would it be easy to get repairs done on a 16 track where you live....if not I suppose you could do it yourself and have parts mailed in just in case something went wrong....at the bottom of this page, click the link "Digital" and read through as much as possible, following the links.....hope you get what you need and want either way....gibs
 
Ok this is what i would recomend.

Intel P-III 800mhz about $500 on pricewatch.com
256 Megs of RAM about $225 (more is better)
8 gig 5400 RPM Drive AND
20 Gig 7200 RPM Drive(again more is better)
I would recomend the 820 chipset for a motherboard. if you dont know what i mean ask wherever you are buying from.

Logic Audio Platnium $549.00
Events Layla Card $599.00
With this program and unit you have a pretty powerful multitrack setup.

For Monitors i would recomend the Event 20/20 even though i like the Yamaha NS-10M because they sound very flat. Just get a small amp to power your monitors something like a Alesis RA-100 would be plenty. Now one last thing you need a mixer, with what you are doing i would think the Alesis Studio 32 (16 Channel) mixer would be great, but i bet you could get by on the studio 24(8 Channel mixer) Now all that said that should put you around 3500 or so buying everything new... Go to http://www.codyyoung.com to hear some stuff recorded on this equip. I have a little more but you get the idea. I have a couple Laylas stacked and a lot more RAM as well as bigger hard drives.. But what i have said will be more than enough for what you are doing... Please let me know if this was of any help or weather or not i am just tired and babbling ;-)
 
Thanks for our explanation. About the ranch, it is a quiet, very quiet place, I think I won't need to built a special room for it.
About your suggestions, I was looking at the mixer and the Digi001, but they seems to be eight channels, isn't it? I know it's only a home-studio, but I really want a, at least, 16 channels. I have many ideas for arrangements and I think that 8 is less than I need. Another question (thank you for yoour patience): In the Digital link of this site, there's the following information about hard disk based-units: "Some of these use more data compression than others, which is a tradeoff: more compression gives you more recording time, but can introduce artifacts to the sound (a technical term to say it screws things up sonically)". Does it mean this have a sound quality worse than a Tape Based-unit?
My system is a Pentium 330 Mhz, 128 MbRAM, 3,2 Gb Hard-disk. No free space in the HD.
In addiction, I'd like to say: right, right and right;> ))
fernando
 
Shakey - For someone with only three posts, you really have your stuff together. I would however recommend either the Asus P3BF or Abit BE6-2 ATX Slot1 motherboard. The Asus may be easier to set up that the Abit. The Abit however is better for overclocking.

Check out these threads for further info: https://homerecording.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/001036.html https://homerecording.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/001059.html

The soundcard I mention in one of the thread (DSP24 etc.) is really good value and has been favourably A/B tested to similar but more expensive cards. (They're basically the same inside anyway...) Keep in mind though that the preamps on that card are not good enough for professional use.

As for the need of a mixer, I dunno. I mix everything in the computer. I don't see the reason to keep going in and out of the digital realm several times before a track is finished. The only real reason for a mixer for computer recording, in my opinion of course, is that you get many good preamps fairly cheap. If you're recording many tracks that need preamps/phantom power at the same time, then a mixer is probably good. Many single preamps will get very expensive and not necessarily better.

Blah blah blah. Good luck

/Ola
 
Man, I thought I've got what I'm looking for using what Daltune and Gibs had told me, but now...
I really have to study a little more just to understand all of you all are saying. Good ideas, good solutions, and I think it can be more a personal decision than just a technical decision. In my case, I'd like to have some computer in my HS, but I'd like to have something more "real" at all. Maybe a mixing, a multitracker out and a computer mixer board, or something. I really have to stop a little and study a little bit more.
Thank you all,
Fernando
 
ProTools Digi001 can be equipped with what you could call a computer mixing board. Check out the Digi001 (about $1000) at http://www.digi001.com and the "mixer" (about $1000 as well) at http://www.protools.com/products/all_prods.php3?location=main&product_id=41

I haven't tried ProTools myself and they're a bit expensive but all reviews say they're great and I would love to have one of them MotorMix boards. You can get away a lot cheaper than the Digi001 when it comes to soundcards but if you want one of them cool computer mixers, you have to go the expensive way.

What computer do you have? Maybe the one you have will do the job right off the bat (except for the soundcard) or only require minor updating. If so, $5000 should be more than enough to get you a top of the line home studio. Maybe you need to get an entire new computer, which of course leave you with less money for other gear.

How much do you think you need to spend on getting the rooms for your studio in shape? That and the cost for microphones will probably be more than you expect. If your new house is in the middle of nowhere, so to speak, then you won't have to spend so much on soundproofing but only on acoustic treatment. If you have a lot of background noise in the recording room (roads, city noise [no likely as you said "farm]), you might have to spend a lot of time, money and effort to soundproof at least the recording room but preferably the mixing room as well.

I would recommend going the computer way rather than the analogue tape way. Not because it sounds better (or worse for that matter) but because the maintenance is virtually zero and I think it's basically easier to get good result. With analogue gear, you need to constantly maintain your gear to get the best performance and the cost of tape isn't low either. Also, as gibs pointed out, would it be easy to get repairs done?

There are tons of things to consider and I think that part of the fun with this hobby (obsession) is to do the homework and get the right equipment, at the right level and at the right price. I don't think you can find a better place for the right information than here so you are definitely on the right way. Right?

/Ola
 
Thanks for the comment Ola.. One more good point about going with Logic Audio Plat.. It works with pro=tools hardware and plugins. And i have owned the digio and i am convinced that Layla is the bomb when it comes to pc recording.. Actually Logic and Layla were rated just as good as its Pro-tools brother but easier to use and much easier to get tech support. ;-) AND CHEAPER THAN PROTOOLS most plugin's come with logic you have to (or at least i did) buy them with pro-tools. Just my two cents worth ;-)
 
Shakey (sorry but your "real" name is just too long)- Do you mean that one can use a MotorMix control surfaces with Logic...? Cool, I wasn't aware of that.

Nandho - The total number of channels is not dependent on the soundcard but rather on the computer's power. The number of channels listed in the soundcard specs is _simultaneous_ channels in/out. Mine, and many many others, for example has 8 line channels in and line 8 out. This means that I can record 8 different sound sources at once on separate channels, at the same time as I'm sending eight channels to an external mixer (or whatever) if I wanted. The total number of channels is far more than that as long as one isn't using too many different effects on each and all channels.

Here's an example scenario.

First you record the drum tracks. 8 mics max. This gives you 8 separate channels in the computer and you can add effects and pan them left/right or whatever independently of each other. In many mixing programs, you can also send them to a stereo bus as you would on a “real” mixer.

Then you record bass. That’s one more tracks or several if you record double-bassJ

Next guitars. One lead, one backing guitar and some solo licks. This gives you 3 more tracks in the computer.

Next is the lead vocals. You stereo mic these and also use two mics for picking up the room ambiance better. That’s four more tracks.

Then for the backing vocals. Say that you have three singers with one mic each. That’s another three tracks

Etc. with dolphin noises, rain sticks and chainsaws until your computer says NO!

You have never exceeded the number of channels on your soundcard and have done all the mixing in the computer. In the above scenario, you have… many tracks, and as long as your computer can manage, there’s no limit to the number of tracks. Some mixing programs may have a limit in themselves but I would guess that no program has a limit lower than 99 tracks. As for out channels. The most commons is of course to mix to a stereo file so you would really only need two channels out. There may be scenarios when you want to use mor out channels and for example mix on a “real” mixer console or whatever.

The MotorMix control surface that you can use with Digi001 and Logic… and maybe even more, can as far as I know, only control eight channels at the time but maybe one can decide to first use it with channels 1-8 and mixe them and then on channel 9-16 etc. I don’t know.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you can easily have 16 channels with most soundcards and new computers. If you need to record many tracks at once, you need a soundcard with many channels, but If you plan on only recording one or a few tracks at the time, you only need a few channels on your soundcard. If you really need to record 16 channels simultaneously, you can use several soundcards in one computer. My setup is expandable to 40 channels in and out but when would you ever need that?

What you need to get started is a soundcard of your choice and a new hard disk. Keep Windows and your programs on your old disk and use the new only for recording. Get an EIDE 7200rpm disk, with low average seek time, of whatever size and brand you like.

Confused yet?

/Ola
 
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