What am I doing wrong

[Kratium]

I have purchased the equipment listed in the next paragraph and I cant get a drum sound or guitar track that sound good enough for me.

Tama 6 piece kit
Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier w/ Standard Recto 412
Jackson KV1 and Jackson Y2KV
Boss BR532 Recorder
Behringer 20-channel mixer
Shure Beta 52
3 Shure SM57's
2 Octava Condensors
Philips Twindeck CD writer

Other optional stuff:
Johnson J-Station
Onkyo Amplifier with Floor Monitors

Now the Beta 52 is on the kickdrum, the SM57's are on the snare between the two toms and on the floor tom. The two Octavas are overhead. All the mics run into the Behringer mixer, then line out to the Boss BR532. We have been trying to record live drum with guitar tracks. On the live takes the result is either overpowered by the guitar or the guitar is too quiet. I am kind of happy with the drum mix, but cant get the guitar sound I like.

Should I try drums recorded alone and guitar recorded alone too?
Any tip or help would be great.

 

[matty_boy]

Definately record them alone. This way you can play with some parameters as you mix them down (panning, volume, effects). It would be a good idea to do the drums first, and have the guitarist follow the drum track with headphones.

Matty

 

[Seanmorse79]

Definitely. Track them separately. If it helps, run the guitar through the J-station into the mixer and play along with the drummer so he can hear you in the headphones while he's playing. Then lay in the guitar afterwards (mic the amp with one of the 57's). Without an isolation booth for the ax, that's probably your best best.

 

[NYMorningstar]

You might want to add a comressor/limiter to your sound chain. That would help you even out the volume problem.

 

[Kratium]

My drummer seems to have better takes when my Mesa is turned up pretty loud. But then there is the problem of tracking drums and guitar together. Should I run headphones for him out of my J-Station, or from my mixer using the J-Station? I take it the SM57 is better for the guitar tracks as opposed to the Octavas in an overhead ambient condition.

What is the beginning steps for setup. I have all the drum mics up and cabled to the mixer. I had my drummer just play and went channel by channel adjusting the gain of each mic first. Where should the db levels be? At 0db with the spikes at 4db-7db? Then comes setting the eq. My mixer is in the same room "insulated studio bedroom" as the drums and guitar amp, so even with headphones the drum volume overall it makes it hard to heard the actual mix. Any suggestions? Can I buy a 10 foot adapter for my headphones to get me out of the room all together. By the way I have AKG 2-40M headphones. Thanks.

 

[Seanmorse79]

Should I run headphones for him out of my J-Station, or from my mixer using the J-Station?

Honestly, it doesn't matter. You're not keeping the guitar track, so if the J-Station gets loud enough, you're good.

I take it the SM57 is better for the guitar tracks as opposed to the Octavas in an overhead ambient condition.

Not necessarily, but it's the more common mic to use for louder amps (I like dynamics as opposed to condensers for amps). If you've got the tracks to spare, try both (2 channels) when you track the guitar. Put the '57 near the cone and the Oktava back a bit for room ambience (I've done this with a '57 and my Mk-219 with decent results). This gives you more mixing options later.

I had my drummer just play and went channel by channel adjusting the gain of each mic first. Where should the db levels be? At 0db with the spikes at 4db-7db?

...depends on your mixer. I think with the Behringer, you're going to want to stay a bit above 0db. The idea is to get them as hot as possible without clipping, so do what you did, making sure the drummer hits hard.

My mixer is in the same room "insulated studio bedroom" as the drums and guitar amp, so even with headphones the drum volume overall it makes it hard to heard the actual mix. Any suggestions? Can I buy a 10 foot adapter for my headphones to get me out of the room all together.

I didn't catch what you're recording/tracking with, so I'm assuming that you're recording "pre-mixed" drums on 2 tracks. Given this, yes, a long adapter would help (that's how I've done it). You have to run back and forth to make adjustments, but it's probably your best bet without an isolated room. You could also look into a headphone amp if the mixer isn't putting out enough - I believe Behringer makes one. But you don't want to try and mix with your ears bleeding

 

[Kratium]

Thanks Seanmorse79

I will buy an adapter to remove myself from the room. I have alot of bugs to work out. I didn't think making a record was this difficult and required the amount of time I have invested. Playing guitar is a piece of cake compared to being the "recording engineer". Thanks Guys

 

[Seanmorse79]

Playing guitar is a piece of cake compared to being the "recording engineer".

...ain't that the truth

We've all been there. Stick with it and be patient. You'll get sucked in like the rest of us

 

[TexRoadkill]

I could be wrong but I would be surprised if you could get a real fat drum sound out of that behringer mixer.

The two things that havent really been brought up are the room and mic placement. A small square room can be a real challenge for getting a good drum sound. There are many tricks for getting a good kick drum sound if you search around the drum, mic, and recording technique forums.

 

[Kratium]

I just wanted to say thanks for the help, and this is an awesome place place for info (probably the most info on one site).

Today I tried mic placement suggested in another thread (the measure two drumsticks above the snare and at the same height place another overhead mic above the drummers right shoulder) I did this and readjusted the gain settings and after two takes and a little fine adjustments we had drum takes 10x better sounding then before. Now just to track the guitar, vocals, and bass.