warm sound

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johnsonpt1

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ok all you pros. got a newbie question for you.
how do you get that "warm".... "polished" sound.
mine and many of the other amateur mixes i've heard have
a good sound but are somewhat "lean" or "thin" and lack that "clean", "warm", "finished" sound. it's hard to put into words what i trying to ask, but it's really easy to notice it when listening.
i realize this question can have a wide range of answers, but what do you consider to be the one or two key ingredients to geting "the sound". is it the mic, pre amp, the room, the mix....etc.
 
johnsonpt1 said:
what do you consider to be the one or two key ingredients to geting "the sound". is it the mic, pre amp, the room, the mix....etc.
Click to expand...

All the above, plus good tracking and mixing skills . . . and a good mastering engineer.
 
yeah i used to wonder about that and realized the answer is all of the above... and then some! No one improvement will do it ( atleast thats been my experience ) one studio upgrade leads to another.... and another.......and another.... and i am broke..... etc etc
 
Yo JBod:

I thinks, maybe, some items have been left out of the warm sound mix.

You need a good mic for vocals and a decent cable for the mic.

You need a good reverb that fits the singer and/or music. You don't need echo canyon but stage presence or whatever suits your ears is a must.

If it is a vocal, you need an articulate singer -- you know the drill: good t's and some vowels need a bit of push to come out clear.

All other "items" mentioned most certainly are needed. Mixing time? Mucho. Different delays, and tweaked reverb and light on EQ and clear drum sounds are all important.

Like, listen to a Mel Torme vocal or Sinatra -- great bands and clear articulation and reverb that enhances instead of dances.

Green Hornet

:D :p :cool:
 
Definately not a pro---But,
I think you answered your own question. It's all the above.

Just remember the old saying..."What sounds good (warm, polished) to your ears"?
That's what matters most!!!

Best of luck
 
I think Chessrock nailed it. Everything commercial song you've heard has all been recorded with top of the line equipment, mixed great, and sent to expensive mastering studios.
 
Just a side note, something I have realized. Everytime you use or hear the word warm referring to audio mentally replace the word 'warm' with distortion.

Distortion is not only the sound of signal smacking the sonic limit in your gear. Almost every peice of equipment has it's own particular type of distortion. Tubes are warm sounding because of distortion. Lab clean is boring and lifeless, distortion is the juice that makes it alive.

Get it? Sound right?
 
It's everything. But here is an example. I liked the last Mark Knopfler album and wanted to get that warm sound he has on his voice. First I started with a warm mic.

Choices were, NTK, Oktava MC-012, MXL 67G, SM57, MXL 990. This looks like Dot's starter list, in fact it is except the 990.

Next I picked my warmest preamp from the following, Soundcraft Mixer, DMP3, Voicemaster Pro.

After about 3 days of mix match and record, the closest thing to the sound I wanted was the 67G and the VM Pro with a little bit of saturation turned on.

I recorded this and was close but now things were too warm. There was no high end sizzle. So after much research I learned about what's sometimes referred to as the Nashville trick. Doubling a track pushing the highs on one of the two and then compressing the heck out of the second track. This completed the voice. Warm with just enough sizzle on the t and s sounds.

Take this same effort across each instrument, getting clarity without too much brittle high end and the right amount of bass without mudding up the track.

Finally I spent weeks playing with different mixes and burning, listening on the car stereo, remastering etc. Mastering compression can warm things up a bit too.

Its so many things. EQ, compression, signal chain, you just have to know your sound crayon box and learn what each thing does to the sound. Eventually you can start painting the picture you want instead of just finger painting.

I did get close to the sound I was originally after. As close as you can get with a poor mans gear going up against Neumans, Manleys and Distressors.
 
Middleman . . .

There is one advantage that you have over most of the professionals, and that's time.

And it looks like you're using that to your advantage.

Guys like you and I may sit here and say things like "If only I had a distressor, an Avalon or Manley this or that or the other, etc. etc."

And guys on their end are probably saying stuff like "I'd trade all these fancy gizmos for just 12 more hours to spend on this mix."

So it goes both ways, believe it or not. :D


I'm starting to think the most important ingredient for getting professional-sounding mixes is a perfectionist's attitude. Striving, at each step, to achieve the best possible sound at all costs . . . not settling for okay, and never saying things like "We'll fix it later." And that kind of thing takes a lot of time . . . and an unusual degree of dedication that not a lot of people have.
 
chessrock said:

And guys on their end are probably saying stuff like "I'd trade all these fancy gizmos for just 12 more hours to spend on this mix."

So it goes both ways, believe it or not. :D
Click to expand...

So basically you're saying that commercial albums are mixed and mastered with some kind of a limiting deadline? That they are sometimes finished without the engineers being completely satisfied?
I find this hard to believe...
 
If I'm not mistaken, the record industry is a creative field, and as with any creative field, you're generally working with budgets and deadlines.

Record companies set release dates, and I would imagine they at least try their best to keep them.
 
Laynestaley said:
So basically you're saying that commercial albums are mixed and mastered with some kind of a limiting deadline? That they are sometimes finished without the engineers being completely satisfied?
I find this hard to believe...
Click to expand...

Actually, in this day of independent mixers the time constraints on mixing are pretty severe. Even big name mixers have to book one of the top end studios, rent any outboard gear they need and thus must budget their time to get out from under the hourly rates and gear rental costs. The sooner they can bring the project in, the more money they make.

I sat in on one of these session's at Westlake Studio's awhile back and the engineer was putting a 2 hour limit on each mix. Now this may seem severe but for someone who does this on a regular basis, experimenting with gear is not an option. They have to know the sounds of major hardware brands and know when and where to apply them. They have certain standard templates set up in their Pro tools rig and they have to know how to get results quick, across 48+ tracks. Also the engineer was present at tracking so he's already started mixing the thing in his head prior to the actual mix. Another point is that with Protools the engineer can spend some time pre-mix to play prior to getting under the studio cost thing.

After the tunes are mixed the band and producer do an audit listening session, reccomendations are made and maybe another 30 minutes per tune.

Now this is not always the case I realize but its a fair amount of what is going on today here in LA.
 
johnsonpt1 said:
ok all you pros. got a newbie question for you.
how do you get that "warm".... "polished" sound.
mine and many of the other amateur mixes i've heard have
a good sound but are somewhat "lean" or "thin" and lack that "clean", "warm", "finished" sound. it's hard to put into words what i trying to ask, but it's really easy to notice it when listening.
i realize this question can have a wide range of answers, but what do you consider to be the one or two key ingredients to geting "the sound". is it the mic, pre amp, the room, the mix....etc.
Click to expand...

Getting back to the regular question, having the right gear is very important; of that gear, 2" 24-track analog tape would be the sure thing. Having experience doesn’t hurt the equation either.
 
A good oven -- about 250 degrees, for 20 minutes -- that usually warms thing up pretty good....

:p
 
Warm?

Im still trying to figure out after 14 years how temperature and sound are related?

Everything starts at the source. Instruments and rooms. After the instrument sounds "warm" in the "room". Then go get a mic that has a decent frequency response for the type of instrument your trying to record. Then find a mic pre that either adds to that or is neutral. Avoid equipment with inferior opamps. Things that have hyped highs will work against you..typically but not always. Once you get that figured out your ready to move onto the recording medium. Tape is wonderful, but you can get decent results with good converters.....

Instrument-room-mic-pre have to be properly gain staged before it hit the medium or your screwed. Just experiment until you hear it. If you don't... gear isn't the answer.


SoMm
 
Son of Mixerman said:
Warm?

Im still trying to figure out after 14 years how temperature and sound are related?
SoMm
Click to expand...

From what I have seen, warm is the oposite of clean.

Warm = Dirtiness (Analog)
Clean = Pure Sound (Digital)

We all know that where digital looses out is when it comes to clipping as analog is more forgiving.
 
mallcore pop said:
Danger!! Danger!!

MP
Click to expand...

My main points are that if digital was warm, why don't we just record everything direct? ...and when was the last time someone used digital equipment to warm up a mix?

If things get too dirty then it becomes muddy, and if it is too clean, then it is sterile.

Excerpt from "Goldie Locks and The Three Blue Bears":

"This muddy mix is under processed.

This sterile mix is over processed.

Thix warm mix is just right."
 
Fishmed said:
From what I have seen, warm is the oposite of clean.

Warm = Dirtiness (Analog)
Clean = Pure Sound (Digital)

We all know that where digital looses out is when it comes to clipping as analog is more forgiving.
Click to expand...

I see you had your "tongue in cheek filter" on and missed al the humor I was trying to share.

If warm is analog, then what temperature is the crossover to digital? 32 degree's Celcius?

Is it funny yet?

Bada Buum!


SoMm
 
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