Vocals to dynamic? Compressing 30dbs...

B

BBad199

New member
I'm having trouble compressing vocals to make them sound natural. They are very dynamic meaning the soft words show up at about -25db and the loud parts come in around -10 or -5. Compressing the track is giving the words which have explosives too much bass. Its not really bad, just something that I think needs to be fixed to sound clearer.

I'm using cubase with an L2 set in a send to compress the flat vocal signal with a slight +4 db boost at 1k at a semi narrow q and a slight amount of vocal rack harmonic sweetener.

Is the answer to smash it and try to EQ accordingly?
 
1. do what mad audio said.
2. the L2 is a limiter, not a compressor. I wouldn't use it on vocals unless I wanted them to sound bad.
3. You run a compressor as an insert, not a send
4. a low shelf will help with the plosives.
 
I also wouldn't suggest compressing that hard with a software comp. Not even the UA ones. If you want that kind of compression without alot of artifacts, thats where you need a Distressor:D
 
ok..well first off..D Ess your vocals. Second, limiters are used commonly in the vocal chain on commercial releases. The L1 is the most popular and has been used extensively. So I would use that, but only if you know how to do it, or it will sound like a mess. After you Dess,you should only need a boost in maybe the low mids, another between 2-4k, and then some 16k for air. Then compress, and if you need to, run it through a limiter lastly.
 
Are you using a pop-filter? If not, plosives can created huge impulses. They will fuck up your signal badly.
 
Sorry all...my fault on wording. I'm using it as an insert and I called it a compressor. Technically its the same thing just a different ratio...but never the less...

I'm using a pop filter and recording the vocals about 6-8 inches a way from a rough gritty vocalist who stresses his vocal cords and some parts and not others. I'm using a 4033 to track him in a shock mount in an iso booth.

1. What exactly is dessing doing? From what I know it detects spikes in the air of high harmonic parts and cuts the sharp "s" sounds. How does it effect the lower range?

2. I'm interested in a volume envelope. Can someone recommend me a VST or do is it already a part of the regular grouping of plugs that I just never really noticed?
 
If certain sections are consistenly louder than others you can also record the parts separately to two tracks and set volumes appropriately, or bounce to a separate track while riding gain.

Of course automation also works if available...
 
best way to go is chains of light compressing..DeEss, compress around 2:1, EQ, then Compress w/ a different comp at 2:1. That can work real nice..or fail miserably.then you can put on the Limiter to get the vox to punch through if you need it...it's really dependant on how well you know your compressors. I almost always dess to get rid of any harshness, I then make up for it by pumping the Eq a bit in the 16k range (dess around 8k), and then run it through a tape warmer...which will warm it up..boosting the 16ks will give it enough air before it hits the tape, and you will have a nice bright vocal that is still warm.
 
stash98 said:
ok..well first off..D Ess your vocals. Second, limiters are used commonly in the vocal chain on commercial releases. The L1 is the most popular and has been used extensively. So I would use that, but only if you know how to do it, or it will sound like a mess. After you Dess,you should only need a boost in maybe the low mids, another between 2-4k, and then some 16k for air. Then compress, and if you need to, run it through a limiter lastly.
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What? I am sorry, but this is not that common of a thing. At least not in a vocal chain. First off, the waves L series is a lookahead processor and technically delays things. Secondly, most commercial releases are done with some pretty nice outboard gear. When you start using a really nice compressor, compression changes drastically in where and how you can get away with using it without creating nasty artifacts. Also, if people were going to use an "L" series unit, it would be the L2 or L3. Also, the algorithms in the L series music are designed around less dynamic transients and are entirely different form most of your outboard limiters and compressors. They were really compiled for running full spectrum material through them. Personally, the "L" series stuff can be an incredible tool if used on a good mix, and used sparingly. As an individual channel processor though it doesn't do so hot. It's lack of tunability destroys the subtle dynamic variances that need to be apparent in a vocal track.

De essing is basically frequency conscious compression.
 
You've been a great help folks. I do own a RNC that when I get a little closer to the mixing stage, I'm going to use. As of now, I'm really just looking ahead at problems that I think I'm going to run into down the road. There are plent of tracks that need to be laid yet on the particualr tune I'm talking about, but I'll be sure to post up some results on when I finalize a mix and get it back from the mastering house!!!

Thanks,
 
Well, I have been to plenty of studios where using the L1 on vocals is quite common. Especially in the world of pop. Read some interviews with Dave Pensado and see if he uses it or not. The guy has mixed tons of current hits. So I would say it is a common thing, but ONLY if you really know how to use it.

I would use it only as the last effect in the chain and only if you can't get the vocal to pop out of a mix. But it's used more the you think.
 
If you want the best sounding vocal, you need to fix it before its recorded.

Try teaching the guy some proper mic technique. Move in comparison to the mic, depending on his volume.

As was mentioned before, record each part individually.

Also, what are you doing while he's singing? You should be watching your levels. Ride your faders and adjust as you go. That's essentially what compression is (In a very very general sense).

The less things you have to add to your signal chain the better. Fix it on the way it. Don't just sit and twiddle your thumbs while people are performing.
 
UB802 said:
If you want to sound of rock and roll on your vocals, you WILL be compressing the fuck out of them! Y'all can say what you want, and think you can achieve a good vocal production some other way, but you WILL be doing HEAVY compression if you want vocals that sound like the "big boys".
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I totally agree. However I don't think 30db during one section and 2db in another section is the sound you are going to want. You need to get the level somewhat similar throughout before applying that type of compression.
 
stash98 said:
Well, I have been to plenty of studios where using the L1 on vocals is quite common. Especially in the world of pop. Read some interviews with Dave Pensado and see if he uses it or not. The guy has mixed tons of current hits. So I would say it is a common thing, but ONLY if you really know how to use it.

I would use it only as the last effect in the chain and only if you can't get the vocal to pop out of a mix. But it's used more the you think.
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YUP...in Dave's own words he feels it'll be a classic in the coming years. But he uses the L1 at the END of his vocal chain. I doubt he uses it to smash the shit out of the vocal just to catch the peaks most likely.
 
In Tune Audio said:
I totally agree. However I don't think 30db during one section and 2db in another section is the sound you are going to want. You need to get the level somewhat similar throughout before applying that type of compression.
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This is also a good place to run pre-insert gain envelopes (if you have them available) to get the big moves out of the way so the comp(s) see a smoother input level.
Wayne
 
Just because a couple of people use this technique does not make it common. More often than not this technique is not used due to the other equipment available, the algorithms involved with software limiting etc....
 
first off, it's not just "a couple" of people. Do you even know who Dave Pensado is? Do you know how many mixes that guy has on the air right now? I am not going to run around and say what I have or haven't done, but I know and have worked with a good amount of producers who do albums that have an L1 on the end of their vocal chain (I said "last" in my first post, should have clarified). Dave can get any gear he wants. He mixes through an SSL or Neve. He is mixing hit after hit, so please don't give people the wrong impression on this plug. It is a great plug to put in at the end of your vocal chain if you feel the need. Is it a must? no. Do more then a couple people use this technique? Definitley. Try it out, mess around with it and see if you can use it to improve your vocals.
 
Believe me I have tried and have worked with some decent folks as well. None of whom would subscribe to this method. That being said, if it works for you, do it. I have no problem getting my vox to stand out when I want without using an L1 in the chain. Thats where Distressors shine:)
 
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