vocal technique

[six]

question for the singers (that actually KNOW how to sing ):

if I have to get loud (louder than normal speaking - as loud to grab the neighbours attention) to hit a high note, but it doesn't hurt anywhere - is my technique wrong then?

I could sing it quieter as well, but then the timbre is way different (obvious headvoice, as you can easily hear on my recordings).

another problem I discovered is that useing the former technique I can sing nice, chesty sounding high notes (like the first G on a guitar's high E-string) as long as they are long (and loud as I said). If I have to sing 'real' melodies I have a hard time hitting the pitches.

I know that the best thing would be to go to a vocal-teacher. but here in my country teachers belong to the best-paid people - so forget about that .

when I listen to rock-singers like jon bon jovi or bret michaels, which sing not THAT high but still higher than most men would, I sometimes think they don't use head-voice at all. but than again I know that pavarotti is one of the few guys who can hit high C in their chest voice. so for example jon bj must sing in head-voice considering the fact that the chorus of "keep the faith" goes up to high Bb.

so what do I have to do now to get my vocals up there? strenghten my head-voice or really push the chest voice?

(note that there are about 3 questions in this loooooong post... )

 

[TIGERSHARK]

use more of what's called a 'mixed' voice

most of your trained opera singers are actually using a combination of a mixed voice, including pavarotti. (head and chest, so to speak) if you train your voice to acheive certain tonal colors by projecting the sound into various parts of your head/chest/sinuses then you can acheive some pretty hefty-sounding higher notes. yes, the best bet is to locate a vocal coach who can actually 'coach' you while performing. don't forget to use proper breath-support as well. it's fundamental to achieving any proper vocal tone...regardless of the pitch. okay, that's a nut-shell approach. maybe it will help. maybe it will not. i hope it does a little bit, anyway. (if nothing else, maybe it will help you in deciding on getting a vocal coach or not. do, if you're serious about it)

 

[istyle]

i have this kind of problem too
iwith high notes i sing really well,projecting out of head
but for low ones they are always rough,i guess i don't have nice vocal cord!
i think there are 2 ways to go high
one is what i mentioned
the other is falsetto i think, ( never took voiceclass too )
so if what you asked,loud without hurting your self fit one of these then it's correct
I guess you have to design yourself whether you will sing which way
by recording every style you can perform and evaluate,build your own singing techniques
cheers
istyle
www.mp3.com/istyle

 

[chessparov]

six, what type(s) of music are you planning to sing?
That will help to determine the level of technique you need.
No "pushing" of chest voice for top notes by the way-too hard on the
vocal chords.

 

[six]

chessparov: I'd say my own stuff sounds quite close to Poison, KISS, Bon Jovi... and that's exactly the vocal range / color I'd need.

even singing higher stuff (like motley crue) is easier for me (although my speaking voice is quite deep) - just headvoice.

to show you my limits in chest-voice (at least I guess it's still chest-voice):
I'm very comfortable with lower billy idol stuff (who isn't?). but I don't hit the higher notes (like chorus of rebel yell) without getting loud. singing loud (like in the car) I can get along quite well but I know I couldn't really sing higher.
at home - where the neigbours ears are at the walls - I even have to sing the high billy idol parts in headvoice.

if you want to get a picture of my vocal abilities you can do this at www.mp3.com/sweet_six_66 .
the songs there are all sung in "not-too-loud-mode". most of them change from deep chest voice to head voice, exept for the last one, which is all headvoice (crueish song).

 

[smellyfuzz]

SORRY GUYS

With 10 years of voice lessons behind me, I still have no fucking idea
of what you your taking about with this chest/head voice shit, I just sing.

I'm not even sure of what your problem is, Six.

I did listen to your song though, this is what I hear...

1) Your voice is GOOD solid voice.

2) You do have a small pitch problem, this could be
caused by headphone volumes while recording.

If pitch is something you have been battling, I suggest
practing scales with a keyboard or an in-tune guitar,
for a ½ hour a day.

Sing to a scale you are playing, do a ½ octave, then move up a note
in pitch, an sing another ½ octave. Then another.

3) You singing projection is coming from your throat.
While you are practicing your scales, attempt to move the sound you
are projecting, toward your nose. Make your singing more nasal,
not too much though.

You mentioned something about voice volume,
but I'm not sure what you are trying to ask.

If you are concerned with lack of volume do not be,
many rock singers are not that loud, & do not need to
be, for they have microphones.

If you find yourself having to scream, this is done a lot but,
one must be careful not to ruin the vocal cords.

I suggest any time you must scream, make very nasal,
this will help protect your throat.

Finally, there is no substitute for proper voice training, there is no
quick advice that can replace someone listening & correcting your
technique. If the opportunity ever comes your way to take lessons,
not just a few, jump on it, it will pay off in the end.

Good luck,

Sean

 

[six]

thanks, sean. (boy, if you knew what probably most swiss people would think of when reading 'smellyfuzz'...)

someone already told me that I have a small pitch-problem... the feed to the headphones is normally quite low - so it's another thing: I now started to record my vocals hearing clean, complete guitar chords - that helped a lot. I think hearing only bass and power-chords I lose the relation when singing high notes. I once recorded a blues-song only hearing the bass... wuaaaaah! I sang so damn out of tune!

to explain that volume thing: I discovered that I can sing some of the higher parts in a different way, so the color of the voice is a bit more similar to the color of the voice in the deeper parts. but then I have to get quite loud (and it's way harder to hit the pitches) - it doesn't work at lower volumes.

so this confused me: should I continue to sing like you heard on the tracks I mentioned above or is the latter technique (getting loud for high notes and not being able to sing these parts at a lower volume) the right one?

it's a bit hard to explain all that in a foreign language ...

 

[ryan_temp]

If you're planning on singing in the style of the bands you mentioned, you're probably going to want to use your normal singing voice. Paul Stanley and Jon Bon Jovi both have very powerful voices. Why not just record it at the loud volume and then lower that section of the vocal when mixing.

Have you tried pitch-shifting that one section and recording the part at a lower note and then shifting it back up? It might be something to consider if you can get it to sound ok when it's transposed back to the original key. If it's fast enough, it might not be too noticeable.

 

[chessparov]

six, I'm planning to install a MP3 playing program on my computer within
a week from now. I'll listen to your clip after that.
FWIW, my vocal tone quality, and volume level was enough in my younger
days to consider operatic training for a career. (Too old to do it now!)
These days I'm planning to qualify within the next 5 years for the
"International" (world championship) in barbershop acapella quartet
singing (singing lead 2nd tenor and/or bass). Here's my training "regimen".

1) Studying two books/cd's-"Secrets of Singing" by Jeffrey Allen (male ed.),
and "Set Your Voice Free" by Roger Love (who trains a lot of groups
like the ones you mentioned!). Of course you have to do the exercises
instead of just reading about them.

2) Singing with other singers, including those more advanced technically,
in an acapella workshop environment. This is even more effective than
singing to a piano/guitar, etc, as the human voice has different
harmonics than an instrument like that, and will be better "tuned"
as a result

A cost effective way to use a vocal teacher/coach is to use them on an
"as needed" basis as you go though these books as you hit any
obstacles rather than getting on an expensive vocal program if you're
just singing pop music.

P.S. Tigershark is right about the importance of using a "mix" to sing high
notes, that's all covered in the books mentioned.
And when you sing in the car-don't shout and don't sing any high
notes due to the ambient noise, too many distractions, and the
level of ambient noise (yes I sing in the car too!).

 

[Chris Shaeffer]

I'm at work at the moment, so I haven't listened to the song, but I wanted to add one thing.

Its pretty normal to have to sing louder to reach higher notes with power. Figure lower notes move more air with less volume and higher notes require more volume to push more air around.

I always find my high notes sound better when I can relax and open up my throat a bit. If my throat feels too tight when I reaching high I generally don't keep the take. Depends on what feel I'm going for, though.

A while ago I would practice pushing my range up and down just a note at a time. I'd sing ascending and descending triads (going up and or down a 1/2 step at a time)- starting from where I really liked the timbre of my voice- and go until I started to loose that sound. Then I would sing that same triad over and over until my voice relaxed into the new pitch. I do that a lot when I'm driving.

I mix up which vowels I'm singing those triads with, too. Funky how singing an "Oh" has such a different timber than singing an "Ayy". I try to work on all of them.

I try to do it so that when I am practicing my throat feels stretched and tired but not sore or hoarse. I have a lot of room temperature water or hot non-caffienated tea around when I'm recording or practicing my singing, too. Its a lot like working out- ya gotta treat those muscles well while you beat them up.

You problably know all that already, anyway. This is a good thread.

Take care,
Chris

 

[smellyfuzz]

Six,

Take special note of what Chris Shaeffer & Chessparov have
posted, it is very good info & I'm in complete agreement with them.

 

[CyanJaguar]

I think what you are talking about when you talk about singing loud when you get to high notes is the "call of the voice",.

Do you raise your head as you go to the high notes? That is a big no no. A good example of a rock singer who has good vocal technique is the singer for dream theater. If you watch, you'll notice that he does not roll his jaw up trying to reach high notes as many of us are wont to do.

Also, its a very bad idea to try to sing a high C in chest voice. you should have a sensation of the voice getting a bit thinner as you go higher, or you'll destroy your voice.

I listened to your recordings and the voice is quite traditional of the genre.

 

[MrZekeMan]

Do you raise your head as you go to the high notes? That is a big no no.

CyanJag,

This is something my highschool choir teacher always harped on as well.

But it seems to me that it makes it much easier to hit the notes when you stretch your neck out. It seems to cut down my range when I keep my chin tucked in.

Taylor

 

[TIGERSHARK]

be very careful, when raising your chin for higher notes

it creates tension on the 'false elevator' muscles in your neck. an important element to hit the higher notes, with your head and neck in a 'normal' singing position (which is ever-so-slightly upward...but not lifting the chin for the high notes) is breath support. proper breath support begins in the lower abdomen region. (yes, another good reason for me to exercise. doh! ha!) your breath needs to come from the depths of your torso to fully sustain a proper tone at higher ranges...well, any range. really seriously try to get yourself out of the habit of raising your chin/neck when shooting for higher melodic lines because that will shorten your career. as with anything else, read all of the printed material (including the advice here) you can. studying is never really 'fun' unless you keep your eyes on the goal. i'm sure your local library would have some kind of vocal-technique books you could check out. there's a lot of good material on the net, too. another spot you may wanna check is a nearby college campus. (even if you had to fork out a few dollars to photocopy some info to read at your own leisure, it may prove to be worth it. i'm not advocating copying an entire book or anything like that...) just be careful...you could do damage to your vocal chords and not 'feel' it until after the fact. (then, it could be too late. yikes!!) i'll see if i can locate some of my old college vocal material and forward the info to you in here, as well.

 

[six]

raise my chin? I never move my head in any special direction when singing... furthermore I once read (yeeeeeesss, I have to books on vocals - but they don't seem to cover the things I'm interested in) that if you move your head at all you should even lower it... meaning raise your forehead in a way I can't explain here.