Vocal/Iso Booth Question

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oedipus_complex

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Hi, I've got a question regarding vocal/isolation booths. I'm uncertain whether I should build one or buy one. Can someone please make me a recommendation based on the following criteria:
  • I only want to record vocals in it
  • The recordings must be of professional quality, I want to make the most of my high quality mic and pre
  • It doesn't have to be completely soundproof (I won't be having a band playing next to it), but I don't want to hear cars/mowers outside or the next door neighbours slamming doors, as per my requirement for 'professional quality'.
  • The booth must be portable, that is to say I may need to pull it down if I move house. I don't care if it's heavy, I just need to be able to get it out the door.
  • Since I plan on having paying clients in and around the booth, I would also like it to be visually presentable.

All that considered, should I buy one, or build one? If I build one, where can I get the designs? Keep in mind that I have a very minimal understanding of construction. I've read the "how to's" that people have posted on this site, but they're brief and well above my level of understanding. I need diagrams and more precise info.

If I buy one, keep in mind that it'll be about $1000 more for me than most on this forum, as I live in Australia and we have no dealer of such products. I can get them shipped from the states at the mentioned cost.


Thanks, in advance, for your help!
 
www.dawbox.com they have some plans that comes with a dvd. I ordered it, and plan on building mine the end of the month. The dvd is just a home video but gives good detail on building one. I plan on making mine bigger then 4x4 which is what this guy has put together. I plan on 5x6 with a few changes as far as adding 703 between the inner and outter wall. Not sure about how to add ventilation to it though. At any rate the total cost is will end up being about 500.00 which is way cheaper then buying one. Anywhere from 1500 to 3000 depending how big you want it to be and I dont think for isolation there will be much of a difference.

hope this helps a little bit
Eddie D
 
Pro Tools User said:
www.dawbox.com they have some plans that comes with a dvd. I ordered it, and plan on building mine the end of the month. The dvd is just a home video but gives good detail on building one. I plan on making mine bigger then 4x4 which is what this guy has put together. I plan on 5x6 with a few changes as far as adding 703 between the inner and outter wall. Not sure about how to add ventilation to it though. At any rate the total cost is will end up being about 500.00 which is way cheaper then buying one. Anywhere from 1500 to 3000 depending how big you want it to be and I dont think for isolation there will be much of a difference.

hope this helps a little bit
Eddie D
Click to expand...

Yeah I saw that, I didn't know if it'd be that great or not though. So you reckon it's worth the money?
 
I only want to record vocals in it


The recordings must be of professional quality, I want to make the most of my high quality mic and pre
It doesn't have to be completely soundproof (I won't be having a band playing next to it), but I don't want to hear cars/mowers outside or the next door neighbours slamming doors, as per my requirement for 'professional quality'.
The booth must be portable, that is to say I may need to pull it down if I move house. I don't care if it's heavy, I just need to be able to get it out the door.
Since I plan on having paying clients in and around the booth, I would also like it to be visually presentable.
Click to expand...
Oh really? Is that all :rolleyes: Ha! Take a look around the net and see if you can find such an animal that REALLY WORKS. You don't need "soundproofing"
but you want to keep out the sound of mowers/cars/slamming doors. Well what do you CALL that if it isn't "soundproofing"..1/2 soundproofing...or 1/4 soundproofing? AND you want it to be portable....hmmmm. You also want clients to pay to use this so you want it visually presentable. Gees, this should be simple. So simple there must be DOZENS of plans around...yea, right. Show me ONE that works. Then show me the tests.
fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Oh really? Is that all :rolleyes: Ha! Take a look around the net and see if you can find such an animal that REALLY WORKS. You don't need "soundproofing"
but you want to keep out the sound of mowers/cars/slamming doors. Well what do you CALL that if it isn't "soundproofing"..1/2 soundproofing...or 1/4 soundproofing? AND you want it to be portable....hmmmm. You also want clients to pay to use this so you want it visually presentable. Gees, this should be simple. So simple there must be DOZENS of plans around...yea, right. Show me ONE that works. Then show me the tests.
fitZ
Click to expand...

Er, yeah, righto....If I had any clue I wouldn't be asking, would I?

I never said it didn't need to be sound proof. I said it doesn't have to be completely sound proof, that is to say I don't want to be able to hear relatively soft noise (mowers, traffic, rain etc) but it doesn't have to block out anything loud like drums or guitars in the same room, as I won't be using it in such a situation.
 
I would question the quality of information on any vocal booth plan that recommends a booth with two identical dimensions; there are two reasons why this would be done - ease of construction and ignorance. (Note that I did NOT say stupidity; ignorance is not knowing, while stupidity is knowing but doing it anyway...

There are a few combinations of inside dimensions (before acoustic treatment) that will minimize the amount of sound coloration in a booth, and having any two dimensions the same is NOT one of those combinations - since a booth is typically small, this puts even more of its modes right in the audible low mid range, so it's important to keep those modes from reinforcing each other as much as possible - this means no more than one even number of feet as one of the dimensions, and no two dimensions evenly divisible by each other. If that's allowed to happen, you have two different dimensions supporting(or nulling) the same frequencies, so EVERYTHING you record in that space will have the same uneven frequency response, and if you do several tracks in the booth these uneven responses will ADD; eventually, depending on how bad the ratios are, the resulting mix will be totally unacceptable.

If you build a booth inside a typical room that has 8 foot ceilings, obviously the booth needs to be smaller than that; allowing for framing, etc, this limits you to about 7 feet tall inside the booth before adding any absorbents - one set of inside dimensions that works well with a 7 foot ceiling is 4' x 5.5' x 7' tall. This combination has ZERO modes that reinforce each other, and would have the least problems of almost any combination I've tried when it comes to getting a neutral sound. Another combination that's about the same sound quality but gives more floor space is 7 x 6 x 5. For smaller footprint, inside dim's of 7, 4.5, 3.5 feet aren't too bad although there would be a slight "hole" in response at around 100 hZ.

Building a PORTABLE or dis-assemble-able booth brings a whole new set of problems to solve - it's difficult to build a very high isolation when you're making it PERMANENT; when you add the "gypsy" requirement it gets even harder. IF you look at Whisperroom's offerings, only their more expensive versions have a decent amount of isolation, and they run anywhere from $5k up to about 3 TIMES that depending on size, whether you want to also BREATHE, etc - The GOOD side of one of their booths is that it looks professional, two people can assemble/dis-assemble one in a few hours, and you can (for extra $$) get a ventilation option without getting an engineering degree.

Back to the Dawbox thing - I've only seen the ad and website, so I've no way of knowing whether the author knows more about isolation than they know about acoustics; but the "4x4" thing would cause me to question EVERYTHING ELSE involved.

If you REALLY need good portability and can afford it, I'd probably go with a Whisperroom; they've been at it longer than some others that have appeared recently, so might have a better thought-out product. You can even get a caster kit for their booths so you can (with the help of a LARGE friend, probably) roll it around.

Hope this helped more than it confused... Steve
 
If you look at how a whisperroom is constructed you can no doubt make your own wisperroom kit for less money. Doing so has been on my list for a while.

You should have reasonable expectations for this. If the garbage truck shows up in the middle of a take you are most likely going to have a spoiled track. That is most likely OK if you are recording yourself, but if you are being paid by the hour for the use of your recording setup that will not fly.

The 4X4 dimensions are not optimal but ALL prefabricated units use these dimensions because that is the size of the MDF panels that they are built from. It is just part of the compromises, and these units are by their nature compromises between movability and cost and having the best isolation and sound.
 
All true; but if you notice whisperroom's recently added a "non-parallel" wall option, so even they realize there's better ways - and from the specs I saw on their site, even their "heavy duty" version isn't all that great for isolation - most of that is the narrow air gap and lack of insulation between inner and outer leaves IMO.

I agree a cheaper booth can be built for quite a bit less, but I don't think one could get very good isolation and keep it "knock-down" - at least, not without a LOT of premeditation on sealing, decoupling, etc -

If portability isn't a necessity, though, I would definitely choose better ratios like the ones I posted... Steve
 
knightfly said:
All true; but if you notice whisperroom's recently added a "non-parallel" wall option, so even they realize there's better ways - and from the specs I saw on their site, even their "heavy duty" version isn't all that great for isolation - most of that is the narrow air gap and lack of insulation between inner and outer leaves IMO.

I agree a cheaper booth can be built for quite a bit less, but I don't think one could get very good isolation and keep it "knock-down" - at least, not without a LOT of premeditation on sealing, decoupling, etc -

If portability isn't a necessity, though, I would definitely choose better ratios like the ones I posted... Steve
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Thanks for the info, guys. When I say portability, its not like I'd have to move it often. But when you live in a rental property, it's foreseeable that its going to have to be moved at some stage. All I need is something that can be disassembled and not be ruined. Would a non portable booth allow this? Seems like a silly question, I know, but is this a possibility?
 
I don't think so; the least you'd need to figure out is a way to build each of the 6 sides so they could interlock and fasten with (perhaps) several screws into each other - If you don't need a lot of isolation, this wouldn't be too hard; you'd only be talking about single leaf construction; however, if you need more isolation it would require double, decoupled leaf construction. That would be quite a bit more challenge to design properly and still be modular... Steve
 
Interlocking panels can't be that difficult to make.

Assuming MDF for this example, you layer the panels on one top of the other with each layer being smaller than the outer layer, by whatever the thickness of the panels are.

So they look like very flattened stepped pyramids. Then assemble with deck screws.

How to retain the leaf setup, I have no idea, but I imagine putting neoprene, chaulk, something between the seams might help.
 
This discussion has got me thinking about my situation and now I'm curious about some things that I know a little bit about but not enough to know I'm correct.

The area I currently use for a vocal booth is 5 ft x 8 ft x 7.5 ft (ceiling). I just have a heavy blanket strung across the 8 ft width that I use for enclosing the area. One 8 ft wall and one other wall that I split at 5 ft are basement level concrete walls with typical finished basement studs, insulation, and drywall. The other 5 ft wall is part of my control room enclosure.

Now that I've described the space, here are my thoughts. My wife will not allow me to do anything else that is "permanent" for the studio (such as build a real isolation booth) but I am wondering if I might be able to install something that could be easily removed and setup when needed. What I'm thinking about would be to install a couple of cleats on the ceiling and each side wall that could be used to attach removable wall panels that are constructed to simulate a double wall system, with an airgap between them created by the separation of the cleats. If I used some type of gasket material on the cleats between them and the wall panels, and placed some type of suitable barrier on the floor, does this sound like a reasonable way to get some isolation from this corner and the rest of the basement? I'm not too concerned about the ceiling since the room above it is the dining room and rarely has any traffic while I'm recording. What I hope to accomplish is to provide enough isolation inside the booth to cut down extraneous noise that mostly comes from the family room and the dog (it will also keep the dog from wandering into the booth during a vocal take).

I've thought about also adding a suspended cloud to minimize ceiling reflections. I currently have some removable panels that I move between my control room and the walls of the vocal booth to cut down on reflections from the hard walls.

The second part of my question, if the above seems reasonable, is how to construct the removable panels. I am thinking that something that is floor-to-ceiling height (minus a bit to fit) that is 2 feet wide would be transportable and storable. I would use gaskets between the edges of the panels and a cleat to secure each panel together. I was thinking I could install something like 1/4"-1/2" plywood on one side of the frame and then stuff the cavity with rockwool covered in fabric (kinda like a gobo, I suppose). Any idea how this might work out?

Thanks,
Darryl.....
 
At least as far as whisper-room type kits go they are all about the corners. the corner pieces are built so you just slip the wall panels into them and screw. If you need lengths over 4 feet you would need to either make mid-wall connectors (like with an H-shaped cross section) or give the panels a tongue and groove type connection.
 
Innovations said:
If you look at how a whisperroom is constructed you can no doubt make your own wisperroom kit for less money. Doing so has been on my list for a while.
Click to expand...

How do you find plans for the whisperroom, I wouldn't imagine they'd have them on their site?

If going down the purchasing path, is whisper room the best brand, or are their competitors who have better products e.g. vocalbooth.com?

- Anthony
 
This is about the closest you'll get to a plan; after all, they're SELLING these -

http://www.whisperroom.com/WEB_specs/td4260E.htm

Note that the inner panels are part of the "enhanced" package, and look like they do a partly double wall thing -

Not sure if whisperroom's the best, or just the first... Steve
 
DDev wrote:
This discussion has got me thinking about my situation and now I'm curious about some things that I know a little bit about but not enough to know I'm correct.
Click to expand...

Hey Darryl. Is the "curtain", the entry into the "vocal booth"? And if so, you want to replace the curtain with removable panels, but they would also have to be a door too, correct?
fitZ
 
I,ve been in places that have fully loaded whisper rooms, and they are fairly decent, I must admit. Perfect? No. Reasonable, yes. They are excellent for isolating the performing vocalist or musician from fan noise, hard drive whine, neighbors fighting, etc. They are not a perfect soundproof solution, but its is very reasonable. Start a leaf blower in the room that the whisperbooth is in, and the mic in the booth will pick it up for sure.

But, if you want one for semi-portable use, you must, must, must screw 3/4" plywood to the bottom and casters to that. Then you can at least wheel it around. Carrying it is another matter altogether, and probably a good excuse to invite strong friends over for beer and steak :)

It really depends if you want 100% isolation, or just a significant reduction in bleedthrough of ambient noise. My vocal booth is not 100% soundproof, not even close. In fact, with the flip-floor, its pretty obvious just looking at it that its not soundproof. But it is reasonable in the reduction of console room noise as far as the mic is concerned. Using a good, tight pattern cardiod also helps to significantly cut down on noise you don,t want to record.

I would never have built this vocal booth this way, if this were a professional studio that I'd record in for a living. However, most professional studios don,t have an inconvienently located stairwell either :)
 
Hiya Fredric, to what extent can you hear someone singing in the vocal booth from the outside? Can you clearly make out all the words?

love

Freya
 
In a whisperbooth? You really can't, it does a nice job of isolation. I was merely suggesting its not 100% isolation. Generally, that's not necessary anyway in a home studio. You just want to hide the console room noise and other anomilies.

My booth here, you can hear what someone is saying, or singing, fairly clearly, though not perfectly. The intelligibility of the vocals comes from the 6" gap between the flip floor and the entry door, I haven't filled that in with either an extension or an attached, hinged section. So there is essentially a 6"x36" gap between the vocal booth and the console room. Even with that gap, I've turned on various fans and such, and stood in the vocal booth and closed the door, you can't hear the window fan (which is rather noisy actually). This indicates to me a few hard drives or power supply fan's won't get recorded. But I will be filling in that gap once I'm done painting and my engineering mood comes back :)

My home studio is a set of reasonable compromises based on the fact that 90% of my work here has always been midi composing, or final mixes that others have done the initial recording - therefore my vocal booth will be used rather infrequently. Its there if I need it, and also keeps the stairwell protected from clumsy drunk guitarists, since it covers the stairwell.
 
It sounds like your vocal booth is not much worse than the walls in my house are now! :) (People do have to raise their voices a bit before I can hear them clearly, but next doors budgie comes through loud and clear!)

love

Freya
 
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