Violin sound.

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks TAE; I also have an 8 track Beringer interface; I need to learn how to use lots of my new studio gear but at least I'm now set up for some serious violin practicing this coming summer.

I should imagine the whole coast in that area is unstable rob; can homeowners obtain insurance because what I know of insurance companies they are excellent at taking money but definitely shy about giving any back; last August whilst fully insured with LV our property suffered subsidence due to very rare excessive summer heat; over 20 minutes queue on the phone so I filled in their online claim form and waited and waited and waited; on the bank holiday I sent another email cancelling the claim to receive a rapid reply asking me to confirm cancellation; there was an excess fee of £1,000 to pay for subsidence; I repaired three walls; the roof joint and two ceilings the lot costing around £400 for a top class job taking two weeks; no home insurance now what's the point and LV car insurance is due next month they can dream on.

I hope you aren't too near all the coast problems rob it must be very worrying for all involved.

We live on a very steep valley side so never expected flooding but flooded we were under the bungalow floor; about four full buckets of water at a time; I installed flood defences; torrents of water had been discharging down our large rear garden onto the patio; it gained entrance through a failed mortar joint to the wall/foundation directly under the kitchen window.

The failed joint.

Repairs underway; note wall to foundation joint after the joint was made good then a course of engineering bricks laid to make absolutely certain it wouldn't leak again. Whilst doing this I replaced all the underground pipework. We had clay hoppers which gathered leaves and slugs whilst smelling badly so I also sorted this as seen it being my idea; I capped the soil pipe and ran the kitchen wastes through it completely removing the hopper; I installed an automatic air vent inside the bungalow years ago.

I was taught only one way to do a job; go the extra and do it right first time. I bought a new cement mixer just for this job and kept it for six weeks selling it after completion at a loss of only £20; I kept it like I do all my kit in top condition. I never bodge and because I do all the work myself always invest in best available materials.

Definitely not violin playing but I've 36 years of nothing but repairs and hard work living here and still I can't fully relax; I feel very uneasy all the time whilst sitting in the studio practicing expecting the next problem.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

After many months of Virgin Media problems am I going to be friends once again with VM; I hope so and hope the service will now return to it's previous excellent quality; fingers crossed.

The heat's on in the studio; this morning I'll play around with my Beringer;



I've owned this for quite a while but only briefly played around with it not getting anywhere being more occupied trying to play my violins.

I've used my Tascam pocket studio many times for recording and playback so now I'm feeling more relaxed playing the violin I can start learn how to use the studio gear I have.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

As expected and as usual my plans went wrong again; my Beringer won't power up; I've used my DMM to check the mains adapter is supplying the 5VDC and it is so it's possibly the loose connector at fault; the adapter was bought new the same time I bought the Beringer and now I recall why I didn't play around with it much; the Beringer did power up a couple of times but it was hassle; I decided to leave it alone and play around with my Yamaha violin and amp; I've been watching YouTube videos how to adjust guitar amps and it's been interesting adjusting the controls; I'm still not happy with the sound but I think I'm now getting nearer; it all takes a great deal of time. It's suddenly occurred to me I could try a different way of adjusting the amp. could I tune the amp to one of the violin strings rather than simply waste so much time trying to adjust the lot at once; I'm a total novice to this kind of thing but I'm learning with each practice session.

My violin practice this afternoon was accompanied with a background track; it was heavy rain pounding the studio roof just above my head; an enjoyable session though.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Just some thoughts, Colin.
Does the Behringer have a fuse to check?
Is the polarity of the 5V supply correct?
I see a power led on the front, but there is no on/off switch.
I wonder if it needs to connect to a PC via the usb cable, before the power led comes on?

 

[rob aylestone]

The trouble is that if you narrow the band and attempt to EQ to a note, which ones? The open strings are great if you have a tune that only uses those notes?

EQ wise for a violin, you need a nice wide band or two and use it to take the cutting edge of the top and mellow up the bottom, which is something to do by ear, so a nice gentle hill, not a sudden peak, and move it around to taste. For nasty violins - a small boost between 100-to maybe 1000Hz, and just move it up and down and then remove the top down to where the shreaky-squeaky it less priominent. electric violins have a very strange sound, so trying to make it more violin like is always a challenge.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Many thanks Raymond for your excellent suggestions all of which are very valid. I'm unsure whether there is a fuse present but I know it powered up a couple of times when I first bought it. No problem regarding polarity I'm well on top of this at all times; few will know power adapters can be either positive or negative central pin; I've got gear using both types; I always buy larger output power supplies than needed and I can make my own power supplies even winding bespoke transformers.

Yes there is a power on LED but strangely no on/off switch; I think your last suggestion could be the answer; I have it connected to my studio laptop but next job I think I'll delete the Beringer file then reload to refresh it; I'll report back on this. Why is my life so complicated; we've got a smart TV that takes longer to start up than an old valve TV.

Thanks rob for your information; everything is taking so long to sort out unaided by my musical ignorance; I've been trying different adjustments today and am getting the hang of the amp; the amp & violin are very well matched both being Yamaha so it's not the kit at fault it's me; I keep trying though and now am spending more time in the studio enjoying myself. At the moment my preferred violin is the Yamaha and amp but as I spend more and more time in the studio I'll also start playing my German acoustic violin more but without Fishman pickup; I'll use the nice Rode condenser mic instead into the Tasman then play back through the monitors; I've already done this a number of times; if I forget the 48V phantom power to the Rode mic is still live and I then switch on the monitors it sure wakens me up; I'm learning all the time; I want to spend more time playing the violins than spending a lot of time on studio kit so I'll strike a balance.

It would have been nice if Yamaha could give basic settings but then there are different violins to cater for; the German violin could well sound better once I get settled in more.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[rob aylestone]

Recording real or electric violins is a nightmare as every instrument not only sounds different, but reacts differently to the player. If you think about tone controls on every electric instrument, they are always adjust to taste - as in yours, not anyone else's. Yamaha have no idea what is plugged into one of their amps, and they have no idea what their violins are plugged into - so they simply cannot tell you what to set. A bit like not telling drivers how far to turn the steering wheel. You seem a bit lacking in courage sometimes - spend some of your playing time twiddling, and when you discover perfection - jot down the settings. The usual thing with violins is 1. They sound dreadful on their own. and 2, they sound dreadful without reverb. There are of course exceptions, but they're rotten instruments in anything other than wonderful sounding spaces - and electronic reverb tries hard to recreate this.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Many thanks rob; yes it would be impossible for Yamaha to match every instrument to their amps; it was only a passing thought but I stated there are different violins to cater for also of course you are right because personal choice is so varied too.

I know you've got the very best of intentions rob towards helping me but I've never lacked courage in anything; I do however admit trying to adjust the amp is robbing me of lots of time hence I got it to sound decent but lately I've been looking into this now I can spend more time in the studio;



Above video offers some help even if aimed at guitar playing; there are so many knobs to adjust on the amp I wanted to know what each knob did rather than guessing; I've taken images of best adjustments just as you kindly advise jotting down but now I'm gaining more experience I'm noticing a great deal more. One important thing to me is whilst I'm playing with the violin on my shoulder I think it sounds lovely but when recorded through the Tascam pocket studio and played back through monitors it sounds totally different so this is another thing I need to understand; I don't want to waste forum members valuable time so I'm doing lots of research through the web; YouTube videos and practice; every bit of information is adding to experience.

I did spend some time with the Tascam and "Audacity" but again it was taking a great deal of time; I started with an empty head knowing what music is but not understanding basics of creating music; I've spent a lifetime in heavy industry so music creating was alien to me only 18 months ago; since then I've progressed quite a bit; not as quickly as I'd like but now I have a lovely compact studio kitted out and am on a steep learning curve regarding violin playing and everything associated with a studio. I wouldn't expect a musician who has only ever studied and become expert with music to drop easily into my world of huge machinery and mechanical engineering it just doesn't happen. Would a musician novice to a center lathe know how to work the lathe; I know the first mistake on any lathe is to take say a 0.250" cut expecting the diameter to reduce by 0.250" but only to find the diameter is now 0.500" less; this simple thing takes time to understand. Every skill takes time to learn.

Thanks for the two points rob; I'll have a go with reverb.

Have you got anywhere with our broadband problem rob; I hope so. After posting yesterday I composed an email and when I clicked send my email; broadband and TV died again; thanks Virgin Media I appreciate it.

Out of interest I'm not in the least scared of twiddling knobs in fact I make knobs to twiddle it being just one of my skills as seen here;

Homemade vintage radio knobs I made as a favour to a forum member copying an original involving both metal and woodturning; I used CAD to create the paper templates; the inserts are brass with 1/4" bore.

The same knobs stained and varnished; I never charged for the many favours I did over the years.

Rather more complicated; the large aluminium knob belonged to an AVO wave winder I fully restored the small knob was missing so I made one; poor picture but both knobs looked factory made.

More complicated still is this knob I made in brass threaded and with knurling; if I could turn thanks into cash I'd be very well off indeed; whilst on the forums I'm a member of I receive lots of free help whether gardening or help on here I try to give something back. All I can give back on this forum for the wonderful help I continue to receive is to add my story as a total novice to violins and the music scene in general.

I openly admit I'm thick when it comes to creating music but as with everything I try I never quit however long it takes; I have an whole list of skills I've gathered over a lifetime; music is my current interest and it's become a big part of my life.
I'm awaiting the studio to heat up because outside it's bitterly cold with overnight frost and ice; I'll have a mug of tea and lump of cherry cake then wander into the studio to play with the Beringer and laptop;

Further to your kind suggestions Raymond here's a bit of information I found on the web;

My Beringer is the UMC404 and I have the correct power supply so I need to find out what the fault is and sort it out; as usual I can't do the simplest job like plugging something in and it works. What fun I have though; I'm never bored.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[rob aylestone]

Ironically, I've been watching a real engineer type machinist on Youtube and totally get the lathe example. It's also quite common for musicians to never know what their instruments sound like. Brass players being the worst. They have never ever heard what everyone else hears. Violin and viola players get used to the screethy noise from the bridge area - listeners hear something totally different as you are hearing with the mic. Indeed - recording a string instrument of any kind requires experimentation and of course, how the room 'captures'. I do feel, after watching loads of musical 'how to' videos, that there is a problem with anything to do with tone. What they hear in the room, gets changed by the recording process, then the social media site, then of course what you listen on. One person's brightness is somebody else's tinny sound. Same with bass.

If you like the sound you hear when playing - be wary of trying to recreate that for others, because they will be listening at a distance and your 'preferred' sound could be deemed wrong? Does your 'sound' sit well next door to a recording by somebody else? Probably not. If we assume that you have a good room and a truthful microphone then what it hears will be close to what you really sound like, not what you hear when playing.

Tone controls. Bass and treble of the old fashioned kind has gentle cut or boost at two frequencies - then somebody added a middle frequency. Another added another knob to move the frequency up and down. Joe public sort of turned up the bass to get a beat, and turned up the treble to get the cymbals and high hats - especially when people invented disco. Next step, dump those three frequencies and give people a 5, 7 or even 9 band graphic EQ. All that happened was they invented the smiley face curve to do pretty much what the old bass and treble boost did. My view is that the end user will turn the bass and treble up on every recording despite it being recorded by people like me, or amazingly big and knowledeable industry heavweights in amazing studios. They like the smiley face, and the studios know people will do this. So - the tone controls we use in recording and mixing are for sort of crafting the sound, if the caoptured sound needs it.

I suppose what is needed is a sort of fingerprint for a particular insstrument, and that can only be done by comparison. Listing to a classic instrument and trying top recreate that sound with an inferior, or just different one - and that is down to ear training. I honestly don't think you can get this from youtube - you get a process, you get vocabulary, but in your engineering history, the feel when your fingers and ears tell you a tool is performing properly, is paramount. You cannot get that from youtube. The best you can do is try to recreate other people's sound?

Internet wise, I'm now having other suppliers plagueing me with offers, but worse - the old supplier just invoiced me for the forthcoming month! Good job I cancelled the direct debit. Closed they might be, but their accounts systems are still taking people's money>

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks so much rob for your very informative and interesting reply which I can understand. I do watch lots of YouTube tutorials they cover a huge range of subjects often yielding useful tips. I've been trying to replicate violin sounds I hear on YouTube thinking these violinists have played their violin and put the track through a mixer etc possibly in a proper studio and as I've got nice violins and an hybrid carbon fiber bow with a mixer; Rode NT1-A condenser mic; amplifier and monitors etc I might be expecting too much on top of this these violinists will have devoted their life to playing violins whereas I'm just learning; I have a dream though to aspire to and I'm slowly improving.

Your kind suggestion of using plenty of reverb has certainly livened up the sound; I only tried briefly and I'll do lots more knob twiddling until I get the sound I want to hear on my shoulder; I'm not too bothered as to what it sounds like to others because I'm a loner playing for my own pleasure; non of our close friends play musical instruments and non mention my violins so I keep quiet about them because I don't want to bore them with my hobbies.

I think by what I read the Rode mic is an excellent mike also the powered monitors are sold as putting out true sound so both these could alter the sound; I'm not only finding learning to play a violin highly interesting but also getting to grips with the studio kit I have; as you know all this is so new to me starting from scratch but it's becoming addictive.

You make a very good point rob about ear training and this I find difficult as yet but I'm starting to hear when something sounds "off" I understand though what you are stating; yes indeed as an engineer I can instantly tell when a machine or even hand tool is feeling stressed; I've not bothered with theoretical lathe speeds since being an apprentice; if the lathe sounds sweet then it's running at optimum same whilst using my big drill press just use fast speed for small twist bits and drop it it into back gear for large twist bits; it's this kind of experience I need to learn with violins.

I do learn a lot about violins on the web and YouTube videos also information kindly supplied by you and Raymond but as you state it's not giving me actual sounds to work to just comparisons but it's all useful to me and as I improve I'll end up with a sound I like but it will take a lot of time and determination.

WOW the post lady has just delivered the Fire Eye Red Eye preamp so another piece of kit to try out; once again I'm waiting for the studio to heat up.

Please have a really good laugh at my stupidity Raymond I can't believe just how dumb I can be at times; this morning I went straight to the Beringer fault; the only thing at fault was ME I've been trying to use the wrong 5VDC adapter which is positive center pin whereas the Beringer needs 5VDC negative center pin. I did power up the Beringer ages ago when it arrived but since then I've added lots of 13A sockets; I need to label all the plugs. DOOOOOOOOOH It's nice to know I can still make basic mistakes whilst knowing how to sort out pos & neg on so many components like LED's & Capacitors; I need to find the correct power supply.

Studio here I come.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

We should go into business together, Colin. Your knobs are really cool. We could knock out expensive boutique retro synths. You could do the physical stuff, and I'll do the electronics design and software.

The most stupid fault I've done many times, and seen others do, is scratching your head for ages, and measuring all kinds of electronic signals, before realizing the wall socket is not even turned on.

 

[rob aylestone]

I'm a little confused as to why you bought the exotic preamp? Are you disapointed with the HF end of the Yamaha amp? Theyre noted for being relaly good and having a really wide tonal range. The preamp is a pretty expensive bit of kit? Hopefully, whatever your problem with your setup is, it will er, sort it. Frankly I suspect you won't hear the difference? It's kind of a device for the kind of players who probably put a new set of strings on every week, and boil their rosin pot on 132.5 degrees for 13 hours before adding it to their unicorn hair bow.

 

[TalismanRich]

Please have a really good laugh at my stupidity Raymond I can't believe just how dumb I can be at times; this morning I went straight to the Beringer fault; the only thing at fault was ME I've been trying to use the wrong 5VDC adapter which is positive center pin whereas the Beringer needs 5VDC negative center pin. I did power up the Beringer ages ago when it arrived but since then I've added lots of 13A sockets; I need to label all the plugs. DOOOOOOOOOH It's nice to know I can still make basic mistakes whilst knowing how to sort out pos & neg on so many components like LED's & Capacitors; I need to find the correct power supply.

Studio here I come.

Kind regards, Colin.

I know exactly what you mean. Everything comes with a wall wart these days, and you've got 5V, 9V, 12V, negative center, positive center, and about 4 different sizes. I finally started putting stickers on them so that I know what they power. What a pain!

It was actually nice that companies were standardizing on USB, but now they're going from MicroUSB to USB-C, so we'll start over with new ones. I guess it keeps the power supply and connector companies in business.

 

[TAE]

finally started putting stickers on them so that I know what they power.

That's a damn good idea...

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Thanks Raymond; Yes we'd make a successful team; I've a friend who used to design and make valve amps; we could all enjoy fun building a new business together but I'm bogged down at the moment trying to learn to play a violin.

I'm sure we've all made absolutely stupid mistakes to our own embarrassments and I hope I continue to do so for many years to come.

Thanks TalismanRich; it's a real pain isn't it to spend £300 on a piece of kit then have to buy an adapter but even worse is when the adapter is negative center pin; the Beringer needs -5VDC but try to buy one of these say through eBay; millions of positive pin of every size. I'm absolutely fed up of so many interruptions; last night I declared war on the positive 5VDC adapter and cut the cable reconnecting it cross wired with positive to negative and negative to positive; it's now powering the Beringer; the Beringer LED is lit at last so it's got power;

For those unaware about these excellent connectors they are Wago and come in many variations; lift the spring loaded lever pop the bared wire in close the lever; I used the basic two cable type; both Neg into one and both Pos into another completing the connections in seconds only needing to bare the cable ends so no other tools needed; not pretty but saves no end of messing around; they only accept either polarity not both; I used quite a few of these a few years ago whilst replacing our consumer unit bringing it up to date with a metal clad 16 way split board.

I note electric vehicles have started off well having different charging sockets; nothing changes.

This is a very useful tip for anyone wanting to swap DC polarity. I wonder what today's problem will be.

I'm a little confused as to why you bought the exotic preamp? Are you disapointed with the HF end of the Yamaha amp? Theyre noted for being relaly good and having a really wide tonal range. The preamp is a pretty expensive bit of kit? Hopefully, whatever your problem with your setup is, it will er, sort it. Frankly I suspect you won't hear the difference? It's kind of a device for the kind of players who probably put a new set of strings on every week, and boil their rosin pot on 132.5 degrees for 13 hours before adding it to their unicorn hair bow.

Thanks rob, how did you know I boil my rosin and use Unicorn hair. To answer your question though; I responded to TAE's information on post #176 where he said he'd heard one of these pre amps in action; the cost of this is low compared to the generous spoiling by my wonderful wife; as with all new gear I was into the cable problem once again; why can't cables be standardized; good job a while ago I bought a selection of audio cables so found I had one; this pre amp does make a difference and is very easy to connect; I briefly tried it last night and I'll play around with it today experimenting with different settings; in my workshop I've got expensive tools that double up on each other; I've got five routers from a small palm router up to a bit of a monster 3hp Makita

The big Makita will do the job of the smallest router but I think I'm a tool junkie.

Now in retirement rob my wife and I can fully indulge in our respective hobbies; we've not had an holiday away from home for 45 years and neither of us have bad habits like booze; smoking or drugs; one thing about buying this gear it still retains value so if it doesn't work out as expected it can easily be sold on. Tickets at a recent Wembley football match were being sold for up to £1,800 this being a hobby for those involved; to me I want value for money something I can handle and use.

I only need one violin but now I find I've got four violins and a genuine Russian Balalaika; when you see violinists in their home studio how many have lots of violins. I do wish playing a violin was as easy as spending money on violins; we can afford it. I'm not at all disappointed with any of my gear but I really need to learn how to set it all up and use it correctly; what I've done rob is to kit the studio out often through kind suggestions and now I've got a nice studio with assorted gear I want to grow into it; I've got a rather expensive synthesizer which I've had a lot of fun with creating strange and weird noises; it's an whole new world for me to play in. Just for interest rob I do have a double boiling cast iron pot for heating hide glue but veneering is just another of my hobbies; I'm into all kinds of things but I take every one of them seriously and stick with each until I become proficient; however I think violin playing ranks up there with the best of my hobbies and it's adopted for life; if I never fully learn how to play a violin I'll enjoy making nice sounds.

When the weather warms up rob I'll spend a lot of time playing both my electric and acoustic violins; I'm noticing lots of differences now regarding sound so I'll be able to compare with the electric violin through the amp and the acoustic through the mic. I do take lots of notice of information and suggestions put forward to help me.

I think the studio will have warmed up by now.

Kind regards, Colin.

 

[Retired]

Hi,

Yesterday I finally got the Beringer up and running; not connected to the laptop but I played my Yamaha violin directly though it; it's too early to really make a comparison but playing the violin directly through the Yamaha amp then playing through each in turn the Beringer and the Red Eye there is quite a bit of difference between all three; I need to spend time twiddling as you say rob but I'm pleased to be using all this gear at last.

Thanks again rob; treble too is making a great difference; everything takes so much time; an hour disappears rapidly; I don't want to lose track of learning to play a violin by spending all my time with studio gear so each time I'm in the studio I do practice.

I watched a few female violinists on YouTube at 6 o'clock this morning during breakfast before setting out to the supermarkets; all were playing Amazing Grace and all were very different in sound all being excellent all were accompanied either by orchestra or piano; a very nice start to my day and a bonus is it's warmer outside so to make the most of it I'm about to head up the garden with the petrol rotavator before the weather turns cold again; I want to broadcast the wildflower seeds in the meadows. I can practice violin playing this evening.

UPDATE;

Top meadow now rotavated for the second time; raked this time and wildflower seeds broadcast. I'm tired and ache but was happy until I've just tried to access my emails;

No peace at all in my life with these constant hassles but I keep trying.

Kind regards, Colin

 

[Retired]

Hi,

New mini meadow to bungalow side garden is now rotavated and wildflower seeded also I've started digging around stumps in the middle meadow; plenty of heavy work as usual.

"The Best Of Beethoven" Ode to joy CD has arrived this having a total of 13 tracks Which I'm enjoying playing also the Amazing Grace violin/piano music score Traditional by Arr Duncan Reid; I've had the Judy Collins version for quite a while and there is a great deal of difference between the two; Judy Collins is all sharp whereas Duncan Reid has six lines flat and three lines sharp; I'm very much looking forward to having a go at playing the Duncan Reid version; I'm delighted to have all nine lines on one page with this Duncan Reid making it easier for me to read.

I've bought a 60" hi lift steel farm jack which should assist with the stump removal; I want to get the stumps out of the middle meadow area to allow rotavating then I can seed; I'm trying to get on top of heavy jobs early this year then when the weather warms up fingers crossed I can settle down to more violin practicing.

Unfortunately no violin practice today I've been too busy and this afternoon occupied with a hospital visit; now I'm simply too tired. I don't think I can be classed as a typical violin novice;

Top meadow fully seeded.

New mini side meadow also fully seeded this is special for my wonderful wife who cannot get up our mountain of a rear garden. The soil is soaking wet but I managed it.

Middle meadow under way I'm digging up quite a few big stumps which will give me an excellent workout but will be worth it once the wildflowers bloom.

Last years top meadow stunning as usual with walkers stopping to take pictures and ask how I created it.

Surely after 36 years of living here I must be getting on top of all this heavy work and relax a bit in retirement; I dream of violin playing and can now pop into the studio having the new fan heater to heat the studio much more quickly than the central heating radiator; I'm going in the right direction and am never ever bored.

Kind regards, Colin

UPDATE; I truly despair; I'd just posted this latest message and settled down to watch TV with my wife; as soon as I touched the TV remote "No Signal" then when I visited the Virgin Media account to do a test there's intermittent signal loss again; a few days ago we received an email from VM stating problem now sorted out; I like a good joke but where can I get some peace in my life. The computers back up but dare I tackle our TV. This has been going on for months.

 

[rob aylestone]

Well - I'm pleased you've discovered the Wago connectors, the best little invention for years and they even do small plastic hing shut boxes that the wagos fit into to make customisable junction boxes and with a cable tie through a hole become 'permanent' junctions from tghe regulations point of view and can be sunking into walls or hidden away where no access will be possible. So many versions of them too.

I have to admit I'm impressed by your continual outside activities - the idea of rotavating a biggish lump of land is quite something I think.

I'm still without internet - work is suffering now - I drove from the office to home three times in one day - it isn't far, but it's such a pain when you click on something in one studio and get a cannot connect to server message when before, I didn't have to think where I created something. Vodafone failed miserably to sort me out - a rejection appeared on my new order because they believe my house is connected via openreach to BT's system and the new fibre last from the end of last year doesn't show up. Worse, I think the people I was text messaging are actually in a foreign country. When patience ran out after an hour, I said stop = we're getting nowhere, I will just cancel the order. I had to then leave the chat and phone them up, and a nice guy answered and processed the cancellation by ignoring his screen where the options were all greyed out, and doing it manually. He understood, but of course was not able to override the foreign people and sort it - so I have signed up with a company called Giganet who actually sent somebody to the house to see if I wanted service with them? That sounds good. We will see.

 

[Slouching Raymond]

so I have signed up with a company called Giganet who actually sent somebody to the house to see if I wanted service with them? That sounds good. We will see.

I will know in hours. Giganet are coming to set me up TODAY!

 

[Slouching Raymond]

Your garden is going to look really good in the summer Colin. Those stumps do look daunting though.