Vf80

[John Harvey]

I'm new to this forum so, please, bear with me if I ask any stupid questions. Two things: -
1. I have tried recording drums to my VF80 by micing up each drum and getting a mix through a Behringer PMX2000 mixer amp. I've then used the record out RCA sockets to take the mix to two tracks on the VF80. However the recorded tracks have what I can only describe as a 'cyclic' noise on them. The noise is not unlike that when you first put the needle on a scratchy vinyl record. Could it be an amplification of the rotation of the VF80's hard drive? Can it be cured? The noise does not appear when I record the identical mix to my minidisc machine.
2. I am more than happy with the VF80 but is there another way of adding different effects to each track other than by the loop effect and re-recording each track? If not, is the VF160 any different in this respect? i.e. can I record each track dry and then apply say effect L05 to track 1, L06 to track 2 etc ... while bouncing?
Sorry if I'm not explaining things clearly!
Thanks.

JohnH.

 

[billisa]

First, not unlike many HardDrive machines, the VF80 HardDrive CAN be heard as a high-pitched whine that will be picked up by condensor mics. I would think drums would entirely wipe this out, but even so, who wants high-pitched HardDrive noise during very quiet passages. Whether what you're hearing is the HardDrive, I can't say. It could be, but I wouldn't describe it as "cyclic". To my ears, it's more constant.

The VF160 HardDrive is very quiet (probably better isolated) and would not be picked up by a condensor, unless it was a foot away (perhaps not even then). It also has two effects chips, so you can add two different effects at a time during mixdown. If that's not enough, then you can do a bounce while adding effects, then do another bounce to add different effects. Or you can use the Aux send/return to add external effects to individual tracks.

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

Billisa,

Thanks for replying.

When I described the noise as 'cyclic' what I meant was there is a continuous hum on the track as soon as I start playback with a louder 'click' on a regular basis. What baffles me is the fact that, when I record the exact same mix via the RCA outputs of the PMX2000 to a minidisc, there is no noise. Surely this must point to a problem on my VF80? By the way, I wasn't using condenser mics, just three or four dynamics of various makes.

John Harvey

 

[billisa]

Hi John,

What I'd do is put on headphones, arm a mic that's plugged directly into the VF80 and analyse the noise. Move the mic closer to the VF80. If the noise goes up, and sounds like what you're describing, then you know it's the mechanical whirring of the HardDrive.

I'm starting to suspect that it's not the HardDrive. "Hum" is not the way I'd describe the HardDrive on the VF80. It's definitely a higher pitched whirring. Are we talking about some kind of electrical hum? Are you using the same cables going into the VF80 as in the MiniDisc?

Is it possible you are peaking the inputs of the VF80? That will make a scratching like noise that would become cyclic as a drum pattern is played.
Your original "vinyl scratching" description doesn't sound anything like what a VF80 typically generates. Make note of your VF80 peak lights as you set levels. They should never light up, otherwise you're running too hot.

Perhaps there's something in the mixer/VF80 interface that's generating the sound. Dirty mixer outputs? Just guessing.

By the way, when I used my VF80 I put it's feet on four small rubber mouse-pad material. Why? Because my desk has loose drawers and was vibrating with the machine, causing a weird almost "hum" like noise. When you listen to the VF80 via mic and headphones, press your finger lightly on the machine, on the table, and so on. See if this changes the sound.

Generally, the VF80 should sound like a PC without the fan running -- just some whirring HardDrive noise -- but that's it. By and large the recordings should be dead quiet. And actually, I wouldn't have thought a dynamic mic would pick up the noise at all -- it's fairly subtle and should be easily masked by almost any other source material.

Hope this sorts out in a good way. Sorry for all the guesswork.

Bill Keane

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

Bill,

Many thanks for your comments and your interest.
The strange thing is that I only encounter this noise when recording through the PMX2000 which was bought new about a month ago. If I plug the mic directly into the VF80 the recordings are excellent - clean and clear. There are two reasons that I decided to try recording through the mixer -
1. because I wanted to record drums by micing up each drum, and
2. because the balanced XLR inputs on the VF80 are not particularly sensitive. I have to turn the trim knob almost all the way up to get it to peak and then turn it down slightly. But it appears that whatever I try to record through the mixer ends up with the noise on the recorded track.
But .... when I record through the mixer to my minidisc machine - no noise!
A friend has likened the noise to that which emanates from a Leslie speaker! Never having heard a Leslie, I can't comment.
With regard to outside vibrations, I only operate the VF80 on a rubber mat on a padded chair so, I think we can rule that one out.

John H.

 

[billisa]

Ok, I think we can rule out the VF80 HardDrive, because it sounds no where near like a Leslie (rotating speaker used on an organ to add a wwwaaaahhh-wwwaaahhh sound to notes being played). If the recordings done direct into the VF80 are clean and noise free, then we know the VF80 is fine.

There's something in the interface between the new mixer and the VF80, but in that case I'm quickly over my head... Still, the Fostex is probably OK.

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

Bill,

Thanks for the interest anyway - nice talking to you.

John

 

[a12stringer]

At the risk of asking a really obvious question--but doing so because even the most brilliant of us overlook the obvious at times--I have to ask: Are the electrical connections properly grounded?
I ask this because what you are describing sounds like something in the signal chain is most likely not grounded.
You aren't plugging your mixer and your VF80 into separate power circuits are you?
I ask what seems obvious because many eons ago, when I was in college, I worked in the school's instructional media department--which in prehistoric times was known as "Audio-Visual." One of our staff had delivered a videotape recorder and a monitor to one of the professors who wanted to play a videotape for his class. I got a call 5 minutes before the class was to begin--the professor was complaining that the equipment was malfunctioning and the tape wouldn't start. I had to run halfway across campus (about 1/2 mile) only to find the problem was the recorder and monitor had been unplugged from the wall by the tech who did delivery and setup after setting it up because of thunderstorms which had been firing up all day and the tech was trying to lessen the likelihood of power surge damage.
The lesson we learned that day was to ask the Ph.Ds who complained about malfunctioning equipment to check and make sure the equipment was plugged in before calling us

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

a12stringer,

I appreciate the suggestion but, no I've tried all sorts of combinations and the noise is still there. One thing I read recently on the forum which may or may not be a clue - the mic is plugged into one of the inputs on the PMX2000 and I'm then taking lines out from the amp via the stereo channel using a double RCA plug (right and left). The other ends of the RCAs are then plugged into Input A and Input B of the VF80 so that I'm recording on two tracks at once. Should I perhaps be using a Y lead and just recording on the one track? I'm not exactly sure what difference that would make but what do you think?

John Harvey

 

[billisa]

a12stringer,

Should I perhaps be using a Y lead and just recording on the one track? I'm not exactly sure what difference that would make but what do you think?

John Harvey

I don't think that should make a difference. I do remember having an intermittant hum when once using a Behringer UltraGain pre going into my VF80. It turned out the preamp had an internal problem.

It all sounds like some kind of imbalance/grounding issue. I assume that the MD recorder isn't plugged in to the mains voltage... This would help eliminate any mains related grounding problems. These gremlins are such a pain, aren't they?

 

[a12stringer]

Aahh, I think we may be getting somewhere.
Cables having RCA plugs aren't usually the best when it comes to shielding. I imagine, unless you have an RCA plug to 1/4" cable, you are probably using adapters at the VF80 end. The adapters, because of the added connection, increase the likelihood of interference.
Do you have outputs on the mixer which allow you to use a 1/4" phone plug? Because then you could run a 1/4" to 1/4" cable between your mixer and the VF-80, using a heavier cable. Shorter cables are better as well. I use 1-foot cables between my mixer and VF-80. Much quieter than a 3-6 foot cable.

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

a12stringer,

Ah ... now then, this sounds hopeful. Yes, I do use a standard RCA lead - red and white stereo plugs at both ends with standard jack adapters at the VF80 end for this application. The lead is fairly short, maybe two or three feet. When I record to minidisc I don't have to use the adapters as there are RCA inputs on the MD recorder. There is actually another line out from the PMX2000 which is a single standard jack. I will try using this with a (shortish) instrument lead - jacks both ends.
Oh, I do hope this is the problem!
I'll let you know - a million thanks, whatever happens!!!

John Harvey

 

[Tubedriver]

John
try using XLR cables from the mixer's main L/R outputs to the VF80. This will be a balanced signal all the way and will terminate any interference.
Tube

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

Tube,

That's something that never occured to me! I haven't got XLR outputs from the mixer but I could use a jack/male XLR lead which I happen to have to go into the XLR input of the VF80. I will try that. Many thanks.

John

 

[robjh22]

?

I'll ask this: is this noise only detectable on playback? My vf80 is noisy too -- it does not sound like a computer, and it's definitely that hard drive, and it's not just spinning noise. It sort of "creaks" intermittently, like it's slightly warped or something, and I hear it ALL the time when it's powered up.
I've just got too many other things to worry about, and only play for fun. Some of the noise probably does get into the mix by actually coming into the microphone during recording, but we've all agreed that these things need to be isolated as much as possible from the mikes anyway.

Bill and Tube, if you're reading this, please respond to my thread of today regarding cutting/pasting. Thanks.

 

[John Harvey]

VF80 - noise

Rob,

I think know the noise to which you are referring - that is definitely the noise of the hard drive in the VF80 but, on my machine this is very quiet compared to the noise I describe in the previous threads. Although, I suppose it could be described as a very much amplified version of the same hard drive noise. I think I need to experiment a bit more. Thanks.

John Harvey

 

[ninjaman33]

regarding the fostex VF80

just bought the VF80ex from musician's friend and i also made up my own package with behringer truth monitors a nady processor and a nice studio mic with boom and gemsound preamp and iam very estatic about what ive been getting for quality from the machine...it's so much different then a Yamaha MT120 which i also own...Digital recording is the future and future too come..Iam new to this forum but glad to see the forum is here too help us Newbies who feel like stupid engineer wannabees

 

[cellardweller]

Welcome aboard!

Did you happen to compare the VF80 to the MR8HD ( I haven't)?
What are the differences, if you know?

PS ~ what kind of mic did you buy?