Used monitors?

[Seeker of Rock]

Any particular lifetime expectations on when a monitor loses elasticity in the surrounds or just wears in general? If so with regular daily use, how many years if not abused? Thinking of buying some used monitors.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

There's no real measuring guide, it depends upon the quality of the surrounds and the speaker manufacture in general, the conditions (temperature/humidity/light) under which they were kept, and how they may have been used or abused.

My monitors are 7 years or more old now and still function like they did on day one. The surrounds are as supple as ever and there no sign of any seperation or even wear anywhere. I also had some quality bookshelf speakers back in the 80s that lasted a good 10 years or more before the surround finally cracked on one of them.

OTOH, I have seen perfectly good monitors last a year before crapping out because the owner kept them in a room where there was a couple of hours of sunlight shining on them a day, has no qualms about blowing cigarette smoke right at them, and he cranked them with an underpowered/mismatched amplifier at high gain. Yeah, the guy was an idiot.

I personally have a general rule that I never buy anything used from someone I have never met. I know that's an anachronism in this eBay era, but it's a rule that has served me well.

G.

 

[eraos]

has no qualms about blowing cigarette smoke right at them

G.

What exactly does smoke do to speakers and electronics?

Is there something in the smoke that does damage to equipment?

I'm supposing it has something to do with tar?

 

[Seeker of Rock]

If nothing else, smoke creates a residue on things and I believe tar is probably one of the contributing factors. Smoking around anything also creates dust from the fine ash that inevitably does not make it to the ash tray. I bought an MSR-16 that was obviously used in a smoking environment and there was a brown residue on the remote control cord. My tech tells me the insides had some residue as well that I'm assuming got in through the heat vents.

Glen, a good policy you have, but I don't necessarily follow that on everything. Depending on what it is, I guess. Monitors, I'm not sure, but if I ask the right questions my initial thought is that they would be something I would consider used. Hope it doesn't backfire. There is always a risk with used or even 'new' if you don't know who it is selling it. Thanks for the input.

 

[FALKEN]

that's why you should always use a water bong.

I've bought a lot of used stuff but for some reason buying monitors and ribbon mics used makes me nervous.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Mine is more with used tape decks. FALKEN, you know my history on that High end electronics probably as well, especially from an unknown that claims "it worked great last year, but sold AS IS". Out of curiousity, what are your reasons for not buying these two things used FALKEN? I appreciate your input, my analog friend.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What exactly does smoke do to speakers and electronics?

Is there something in the smoke that does damage to equipment?

I'm supposing it has something to do with tar?

Yeah, like Seeker said, it's the tar residue and even smoke dust that can cause several problems.

First on electronics, the tar lays a coat on the electronic components (IC chips, resistors, etc.) that acts like an insulating layer, much like a blanket. This coating helps keep in the heat generated by all electronics, causing them to run hotter than normal. This excess heat reduces the life span of the components.

Then there are electrical contact surfaces like faders and rotary pots. The tar gets on these surfaces and tends to reduce the quality of contact between the metal contacts, causing noise and potential signal loss. And anybody who has tried to clean ceilings, walls and yes, even bongs, knows how hard tar and resin deposits can be to clean.

As far as speaker elements, you get that coating on speaker elements and it changes their mass - even if ever so slightly - and therefore their response and performance. On the surrounds, it can affect their flexibility and resiliancy and even possibly - with the right kind of materials - chemically react with it over time; weakening the glue, drying out the surround material, etc. And of course you have the crossover circuitry which can suffer the same effects as any other electronics as mentioned above. This is even more signifigant if they are active monitors with built-in amplifier circuitry to be affected.

And finally, speaking of amplifiers, anything with a heat sink/cooling fins (most power amplifiers and many computer CPUs) will be affected by that same insulating tar in the same way as the circuits they are tyring to keep cool. Cover cooling fins with cigarette tar and they will not dissipate the heat as efficiently.

G.

 

[FALKEN]

seeker,

I have no empirical evidence or anything. or even any bad experiences. I just feel nervous about buying ribbon mics and speakers used because they can be messed up so easily. I mean, a ribbon mic can go bad just from carrying it across the room (or so I've heard). Or from being stored in the wrong position. Or from blowing on it. Speakers....are more robust but still you never know if some idiot pushed in the cone or something at some point, and then they pushed it back out. or if they have been blown out or whatnot. I mean, buying a guitar amp used is one thing. You can replace those cones no problem. But on studio monitors....like I said, there really is no reason not to that I can think of, it just makes me nervous, personally. It sucks too because someone on gearslutz was selling a pair of 8040's for like half price a couple months back and I had to pass. I don't feel bad about it though. I might have just been out well over a grand!!

 

[Seeker of Rock]

I understand and agree with the ribbon mics...very sensitive piece of equipment there. I guess everything we use is. I'm looking at a new PCM91 right now, not because I don't trust used, because the going price in most cases new vs. used is just not worth it. Don't know how they've altered the presets and whether I will like what they've done, whether it has been exposed to electrical spikes, etc. Sensitive equipment. I was looking at an M300 but walked away for the same reason you said...I just didn't feel comfortable/warm and fuzzy inside with the seller's response, and he was a second owner.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I have no empirical evidence or anything. or even any bad experiences. I just feel nervous about buying ribbon mics and speakers used because they can be messed up so easily.

I agree.

I think those fall in the same category as tape decks, really; things mechanical, things that wear, things that are subject to wear and tear in ways that may not be as readily apparent as with solid state electronics.

G.

 

[FALKEN]

True,

but unless you're going to drop $$$$$$ on one of the last remaining NOS studers I don't think you're going to find a tape deck that isn't used. that one is sort of like a necessary evil. unfortunatley seeker already had a bad experience with that.

by the way, my own "personal feelings" really shouldn't dictate what you do or don't do. who cares what I think. I'm nobody.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

by the way, my own "personal feelings" really shouldn't dictate what you do or don't do. who cares what I think. I'm nobody.

I care, that's why I started this thread , to get a general consensus and make sure there wasn't an overwhelming majority saying "monitors are the LAST thing you want to buy used because of....". I haven't really heard that, just precautions that anytime you buy something used you take a risk, which I agree with. I don't feel there is as much of a risk buying used monitors (generally speaking) as buying something like a hard disk recorder or a tape deck or a mixing board (which I bought the latter used only because it was a local sale, and it has been flawless, but then again had a bad experience with a used MSR-16 awhile back), so I think I'm going to move forward and look for a used pair and ask the right questions, which you guys have helped me think about some new ones like exposure to sunlight, in hopes of getting honest answers from sellers.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I guess for me - and this is true with everything, but maybe a bit more so with monitors than with some other things - I'd be far more comfortable buying them if I could see them first; being able to examine the surrounds, being able to actually try them out to see of the voice coils are weak, if the tweeters are blown, etc.

Buying sight-unseen, I'd personally want to make sure there was a good safety net in place in the form of a guaranteed money return policy where I didn't have to pay a penality to have them shipped back, etc. I guess as long as I am covered in that regard, and the deal is especially tasty, I might make the move.

Then there's one more consideration. If I'm buying something that I intend to use heavily and/or keep using as long as the gear holds out - i.e. that it's meant to be a permanent investment and not a stopgap purchase, I'd look hard at the ratio of price savings to age of the gear. For example, if the savings are only something like 20-30% (I'm semi-pulling numbers out of a hat here) over a new one but the gear is a few years old, I might consider paying the extra full price for a new one just to erase the age factor, even if the old ones are *currently* in great shape. The new one will also include a warranty for at least a while.

But that's kind of a situational judgement call; I'm admittedly a bit more stingy when it comes to buying used gear than most, except if it's a vintage piece that just can't be bought new. But then again, in that case, unless you're buying from an estate sale where the owners have no idea what they are selling, you're going to pay premium market price for it anyway.

G.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Sorry for the revival, but thought you guys may want to know I purchased a pair of 824s on ebay, but with a local seller. It gave me the chance after the auction to check the speakers out briefly (I didn't test for sound, though) to see the cosmetic condition and if it was as the seller stated. I brought cash with me in case the monitors were misrepresented. I wouldn't call them new condition, but I would term them as excellent with only two noticeable scuffed areas, one on the top cabinet and just a little scuff in the clearcoat, the other in the plastic between the woofer and tweeter. My equipment is a mess right now until I get the new 'studio' project finished(hopefully I'll move everything in before Christmas) so I may just hook them up to a CD player to check the sound now. Actually, my 488 is on the outer edge of the equipment heap and is an all-in-one unit...maybe I'll fire that up to test the monitors.

 

[SonicAlbert]

OTOH, I have seen perfectly good monitors last a year before crapping out because the owner kept them in a room where there was a couple of hours of sunlight shining on them a day....Yeah, the guy was an idiot.

I'm an idiot too. I moved a few months ago and just now am finally getting some blinds for the window. What motivated me to finally get going on it is that the heat from the sun actually shrunk a corner of the plastic covering on the body of the monitor. I can see that really affecting a speaker if left to happen long enough. The monitor sounds fine, but there's a very visible result of direct sunlight.

 

[Seeker of Rock]

Forgot to mention, $645 for the pair. I think because the seller's username was humanfactorslab and I, I'm sure like others, punched up their website. Scary image, man. But then I remember when I used to be decked out in leather with tattoos in Indiana back in the 80s when such things were unheard of, and remembered that I should never judge a book by its cover. Scott and Kaki were the coolest people I have met in awhile. Turns out he is an engineer and does the band thing as well. Very polite, good-natured people.
Just hope they work well, though, when I plug them in I have a good feeling the guy is honest.

p.s.-Sonic, one of two things I needed were going to be used. Purchase has been made, so I'll be looking at the PCM new soon.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I'm an idiot too.

Now be fair to yourself, Al. Something tells me you're not a smoker (inconsiderate or otherwise), and with the 824s you definitely dont have a mis-matched amplifier . No fair editing a quote for the sake for self-deprecation...that's my bit!

I moved a few months ago and just now am finally getting some blinds for the window. What motivated me to finally get going on it is that the heat from the sun actually shrunk a corner of the plastic covering on the body of the monitor. I can see that really affecting a speaker if left to happen long enough. The monitor sounds fine, but there's a very visible result of direct sunlight.

Hopefully it's only cosmetic like it appears. If you're talking about that rough-textured veneer covering the outer-front of the speaker, I have a little bubble on the very upper-edge of one of mine as well. A little drop of carpenter's glue should handle that OK. But mine have not been exposed to any sunlight (except for once when I actually used them in a pinch to DJ a party, believe it or not [they actually sounded great, BTW]). So don't feel too bad, Al. It's not necessarily the sunlight that did it to you; it could be simple age.

I purchased a pair of 824s on ebay, but with a local seller...$645 for the pair.

Wow, nice deal! Nothing like paying less than half-price for something. Congrats, on the good deal; they should hopefully work out great for you.

G.