USB or fire wire?

[dpsmith]

I am looking at getting my first mixer... Yes I have been recording with out one thus far, IMO, I think I have achived a good deal considering that I am not using a mixer and all my instruments are pluged direct to my PC..

Anyway,

I was looking at mixers at musicansfriend.com.
I have noticed two types... USB and Firewire.

What is the diff between the two?
My uncle has an Alesis Firewire mixer, so I kind of now how that works,
Sound quality, does it make a diff weather you have fire wire or usb?

also I am trying to stay within $300 (half my monthly check) and get a good pice of equipment. If I wanted cheap I would listen to my uncles advice...

"You don't need a mixer like mine, just go down to radio shack and buy the one for $30, sounds the same as my mixer here, thats how we got started"... Uh.. no...

I can hear the differance.. if you have to spend $100 on equipment convesions (one he showed me was all anolog, no imput for guitars or nuthin and all RCA plugins) to get it to work.. don't think so!

I have always said you get what you pay for (there are a few exceptions where the cheaper priced thing was better then the more expensive one)

Buy cheap, get cheap.. buy cheap gear.. sound like $hit

Although having said that I don't think I sound like $hit and I don't have a mixer... I have barrowed my uncles cheap radioshack mic.. altho it is an XLR type but it has a 1/4" conversion on it and then I had to adapt that to the little PC hole. in fact I think I sound better then some of the songs I have heard from ones who HAVE mixers.... anyway back to the subject..

As said before what would be a good mixer?
I was looking at this deal at Musicans Friend:

musiciansfriend.com/product/Musicians-Friend-Podcasting-Production-Kit-3-PC?sku=247507 *copy and past they wont let me link over *rolls eyes*

I know it says pod cast and it comes with cakewalk.. not even interested in the software, just interested in the mic/mixer combo.

And thats about the price I am wanting to pay, although I would rather have sliders because thats what I was trained on (have 2 years training.. that was 8 years ago and havn't messed with mixers to much since, but I am sure I will remember once I get going)

The reason I am interested in that deal is because I would get two mics.
But I might just buy a good mixer for $280 next month and in march buy a good mic, or, buy a $200 mixer and a $100 mic... *shrugs* thats why I am posting here..

Just thought I would get more then my uncles opinion...

So in recap...

1. What is the diff between fire wire and usb, if any.
2. What would be a good mixer for about $300 or should I buy a mixer/mic combo?

 

[gdavi1]

Firewire send the track as individual files. For example you set the levels hit record and mix them individually in the software. Each mic will have it's own track. This usually is more expensive then most usb mixers.

On the other side usb1.0 mixes the tracks down to one file so all adjustments need to be done before you hit record.

There are pluses and flaws to both.

But i need to know you applications for this?

If you are a drummer go with firewire. Being able to record your drums as individual tracks allows you to come back to the mix three weeks later decide the snare is to loud and turn it down. If you are just recording for the fun of it a usb mixer isn't that bad of and idea.

So if you just list what you are looking to accomplish i can show you some options you have

 

[dpsmith]

I am going to be using a mixer for some seriouse recording.
So sounds like the fire wire, although more expensive, sounds more of what I need. I use both acoustic and electric guitars, I am going to try and add a bass (and learn to play that too) to my collection. I had to sell my pearls when I moved out of my last residancy so I am on the look out for a good set of electronic drums. I know they don't sound as great as the real ones but loudness and space is everything now :0(


sometimes I might use it to just recorde a demo to see how my song that I may be writing at the time is turning out. But most of what I am recording I am going to sell. So I need some good (yet still on the cheap side), equipment untill I get some songs sold and can take the mony and by better stuff.. I am the type that has the idea of slowly growing, that way if I don't manage to sell my music well, I am not out of a lot of mony. Does that make since?

i am on a fixed income so a budget is everything. thats one reason I came on here to see if I could get some good tips on perhaps what to get and what to avoid.

Hope I told you what you needed :0)

 

[gdavi1]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-iO14-Portable-14-Input-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=246030

this will give you 4 xlr inputs with preamps for 300 for an extra $100 you can move to the i0/26 which gives you 8 xlr inputs with preamps or you can go with the presonus fp10 which is 8 xlr inputs with preamps. All three of those are firewire

if you don't need the extra inputs then you can always save that money or use it towards a mic like an sm57 or any of the marshall mxl mics there are some marshall mxl mic packages that are fairly cheap. But it all depends on style of music you are going for

also do you have monitors or good heaphones or something for playback

 

[gdavi1]

forgot an important question

What type of computer are you running?

alot of older computers can not handle the load of multitrack recording and some dont support firewire

 

[dpsmith]

What type of computer are you running?

alot of older computers can not handle the load of multitrack recording and some dont support firewire

It is a self built kind. :0)

P4 3 gig
3 gig mem
SB Aduigy ZS /w fire wire
gforce 7600 GT
Win Xp...

I am sure I can handle the fire wire, I had my uncles mixer hooked up on mine because he didn't have a good enough PC. We played around with it and I think did 5 tracks at once.. you know just noise for testing.

I know that I will probably need to get a new sound card sometime down the road.

I am using some koss head phones at the moment.
going to get a pro set from sony I saw.

 

[gdavi1]

okay sounds good what kind of music you looking to record

rock, country, folk, metal?

also what kind of mics do you have so far?

 

[daav]

OK, time to take a step back, if you want to get the best quality recording for the money, you don't start with a mixer.

For home recording, there are a few key components here, the interface being the primary one. If you are using a standard soundcard.

A mixer with analog to digital converters will act like a interface.

The key question is how many inputs will you be recording at once? An interface with built in preamps for 2-4 inputs might be a fine start for you.

I have a PCI interface with 8 simultaneous inputs, and a mixer and extern preamps. I rarely use more than two inputs at a time unless i am tracking drums, then i use 4 usually.

If you are in the same boat, get an interface with 4 inputs and make sure you have enought preamps in there to run as many miccs as you need. The one gdav1 linked below would probably be fine, and it will replace your soundcard. There are others similar you can compar and contrast for features. It looks like it gives you 4 preamps with phantom and 4 inputs. That would be a good start, actually.

Now in terms of what it takes for good recordings, the interface just gets you in the door so to speak. The next biggest factor will be the mic(s), and cheapo radio shack mics are generally going to kill any chances of a great track. You can get some decent sounding entry level mics for$100, but i would make sure you are focusing on bank-for-the-buck. Don't buy the cheapest LDC you can find because it is an LDC, read up and get the best well thought of mic for hte best price you can get and if you have to wait to save up, wait.

Your room will probably have the next biggest impact on your sound. Too much to get into here, but check the studiopbuilding forum for good info on acoustics. I would suggest you go for a decent quality dynamic mic to reduce room issues. Save up for an SM7 or a RE20, botht hese can be used on lots of sources and will also hold some resale value of you want to change down the road.

If you get your recording space to the point where it sounds good and doesn't get in your way, you want to get decent monitors, so when you play back your stuff you can hear what it really sounds like.

Once you have an acceptable interface, mic(s), monitors, etc, you can start using effects, preamps, and other peripherals to improve your tracks.

Last thing, the preformance is always the key factor, if you don;t have a well played/sung performance, you will never get a good track.

daav

 

[dpsmith]

"For home recording, there are a few key components here, the interface being the primary one. If you are using a standard soundcard"

Wel the sound card I have is supposed to be for recording music through a mixer, it supports the usual 48khz and it also supports the 94khz, but then.. I do know companys like to rip you off by telling white lies...


"The key question is how many inputs will you be recording at once?"

Anywhere between 2-3, if I can get some help 4.

:The next biggest factor will be the mic(s), and cheapo radio shack mics are generally going to kill any chances of a great track."

Well I know those cheapo mics you are talking about but this radio shack mic is made out of metal.. the ones I have ever seen down there now are all plastic crap... but I am not disputing a MUCH BETTER mic would work better!


"Your room will probably have the next biggest impact on your sound"

Ok.. this is the part where you laugh at me and tell me I will NEVER be able to record anything worth anything. I live in a Mortor Home, so space is really... tight.

I would like to make one thing clear, when I mentioned I had 2 years experiance training on a mixer I didn't mean profesional, I recived it running the sound board at meetings (church).

Having said that, if I remember correctly the preamp does exactly what it sounds like, it boosts the signal before being amped...

I am one of those type of people who knows loads of stuff, just not by the proper names.. you know the widgitit thingy, and the doohicky-a-ma-bob ect ect.

But one thing I really do know how to work is the EQ. I have never forgot how to use it.. kind of like cleaning windows, once you have done that for a living, you never look at windows the same.. so you don't hear songs the same either.. I often catch myself thinking about other music like.. oh man, that bass range is too strong or there is too much mid range... :0)

The type of music would I guess be Alternitive... and I use that in its fullest term, there is alt rock, alt jazz, alt soft rock ect ect, I picked Alternitive cause I really don't know what Gener I would be classified as.

I really do want to say thanks for you guys (and gals) to help me like you have been.

Also don't interfaces have to deal with racks? I know what a drum rack is.. never seen a sound rack though.

 

[daav]

There is a lot of overlap. Let's break it down even farther. I'll define a foew components and some general minimum requirements (well, my opinions anyway).

A/D, D/A Converter. Takes analog signal you want to record and converts to digital to store on the computer. make sure you can do 24 bit and at least 44.1k, that should be pretty standard.

preamp - boost mic signal to usable levels, you want to have phantom power available, and it is nice to be able to use as a direct in from bass or keys or what have you. Preamps should not muck up a signal, and should have enough gain to do the job, and nice preamps will add some extra thing to the signal that makes it sound better.

an "interface" will have the A/D D/A converters, and will have multiple inputs and a way to monitor the output. Many are combos that have converters and various inputs and outputs and preamps built in. Many entry level interfaces will be very usable.

Mixer- basically an array of preamps and signal processing with some EQ onboard. If a mixer has converters (i.e. is advertized as having a firewire or USB connection) it can act as an interface as well. As a rule, you will see better converters on a dedicated interface than a mixer. The mixers big advantage is that you can get more pramps and inputs, outputs and routing than in a simpler interface.

Mic - pretty self evident here, but you have several types: dynamic, condenser (some condensers will have tubes), ribbon. Condensers will need phantom power. Dynamic mics will generally be a bit less sensitive and detailed than condensers, but as a result they pick up less of the rooms unpleasant echos.

My suggestion is to get a dedicated interface with a couple decent preamps, phatom power and room for up to 4 inputs at once. play around with that and then see what you are missing after you get a chance to try out that setup.

Get a mixer if you need the extra preamps and inputs, but definitely get something for monitoring first.

Daav

 

[dpsmith]

Thanks for all the replys.

it has helped out a bunch.
I am going to start getting equipment as soon as I can.
If I can get some money for my song I have finished. I know it could sound ALOT better, but I need to get money some how. I am saving but every little penny helps.

I will go in and post the link to my website's in the appropreate place.
All I can say is this.. I might not have a mixer, might be using a cheapo mic.. but belive me when I say I have heard worse recordings trying to sell...

but this is just to say thanks. The total value of all the equipment I am going to buy is around $1k, is that too much for a starting studio? or does it sound about right..

$200 is for the mic.. I am looking at 2 of them
A:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-4000-MultiPattern-FET-Studio-Condenser-Mic?sku=270624
B:
http://http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MXL-3000-Mic-Bundle?sku=270703

I am leaning more toward option B, just because it comes with a pop gaurd.
After deciding the mic is what power is to PC's.. decided to spend a minumum of 200 and max of 3.. but I like those two the best... from what I can tell it looks like they are decent.. not the greatest.. but better then radio shack....

once again thanks!

 

[Chili]

Are you going to be a 1-man band?? If so, I think you can get what you want for a lot cheaper than $1k. It sounds like money is an issue, you initially wanted to stay under $300 for a mixer.

I do everything myself with a modest set up. It's all centered around a phonic firewire mixer ($300!!) It's similar to the alesis except it pulls the streams right after the trim knob and before the eq, aux, fader, etc. The alesis streams after the fader so it includes the eq. I prefer the phonic configuration better because I want unaltered audio going into the computer. While tracking, I can still add effects to what I'm monitoring, yet they don't go to the computer. So I can add reverb to vocals to help me sing (and I need help), but it won't get recorded with reverb. I love that feature.

Phonic ships with Cubase LE so you won't need to buy software. There's tons of free plug-ins on the internet that sound great. I like some of the Kjaerhaus stuff. It's free!!

If you're looking to save money, you don't need a $200 mic when MXL makes some nice ones for less than $100.

For drums, I use EZDrummer ($160). It rocks and doesn't take up any floor space. You might be able to find cheaper packages for VSTi drums, but EZDrummer sounds great and is really easy to work with.

You'll need headphones right away ($30) and eventully monitors. For now you can use your computer speakers instead of monitors. Just use a lot of reference material when mixing; meaning some commercially released cd's that sound similar to what you're trying to achieve.

That's a total of $590 and you can put out some good stuff. Your comptuer is more capable than mine and I can run enough tracks and plugs to do what I want without any problems.

Check out my tunes to get an idea of what I'm talking about. They aren't great, but aren't too bad either.

www.soundclick.com/irishpirate (Yes, another shameless plug for my tunes. )

Cheers,

 

[buryher17]

I am looking at getting my first mixer... Yes I have been recording with out one thus far, IMO, I think I have achived a good deal considering that I am not using a mixer and all my instruments are pluged direct to my PC..

Anyway,

I was looking at mixers at musicansfriend.com.
I have noticed two types... USB and Firewire.

What is the diff between the two?
My uncle has an Alesis Firewire mixer, so I kind of now how that works,
Sound quality, does it make a diff weather you have fire wire or usb?

also I am trying to stay within $300 (half my monthly check) and get a good pice of equipment. If I wanted cheap I would listen to my uncles advice...

"You don't need a mixer like mine, just go down to radio shack and buy the one for $30, sounds the same as my mixer here, thats how we got started"... Uh.. no...

I can hear the differance.. if you have to spend $100 on equipment convesions (one he showed me was all anolog, no imput for guitars or nuthin and all RCA plugins) to get it to work.. don't think so!

I have always said you get what you pay for (there are a few exceptions where the cheaper priced thing was better then the more expensive one)

Buy cheap, get cheap.. buy cheap gear.. sound like $hit

Although having said that I don't think I sound like $hit and I don't have a mixer... I have barrowed my uncles cheap radioshack mic.. altho it is an XLR type but it has a 1/4" conversion on it and then I had to adapt that to the little PC hole. in fact I think I sound better then some of the songs I have heard from ones who HAVE mixers.... anyway back to the subject..

As said before what would be a good mixer?
I was looking at this deal at Musicans Friend:

musiciansfriend.com/product/Musicians-Friend-Podcasting-Production-Kit-3-PC?sku=247507 *copy and past they wont let me link over *rolls eyes*

I know it says pod cast and it comes with cakewalk.. not even interested in the software, just interested in the mic/mixer combo.

And thats about the price I am wanting to pay, although I would rather have sliders because thats what I was trained on (have 2 years training.. that was 8 years ago and havn't messed with mixers to much since, but I am sure I will remember once I get going)

The reason I am interested in that deal is because I would get two mics.
But I might just buy a good mixer for $280 next month and in march buy a good mic, or, buy a $200 mixer and a $100 mic... *shrugs* thats why I am posting here..

Just thought I would get more then my uncles opinion...

So in recap...

1. What is the diff between fire wire and usb, if any.
2. What would be a good mixer for about $300 or should I buy a mixer/mic combo?

I say you should jut get the alesis multimix 8 line one, i heard its very good and its in that price range. I'm going to go out and buy the 16 line one (500) and continue going firewire. It is said that firewire is going "out of style" and I could agree but wouldn't because I don't know enough about firewire to agree, all I know is it works well and is fast.

For 300 your best bet is the 8 multimix. I've heard SO MUCH good stuff