Urgent Drum Miking Question

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jeliot86

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Urgent because, our drummer is coming to my new studio (or second floor...:D) to lay down the final take on our originals this afternoon and I'm still scrambling to get the right mike technique to use. I'm looking for anyone that has had some success recording in small extremely dead room. (I'm mean rugs on the floors and underlay foam on all the walls dry!) I am using a matched pair of NT-5's as overheads and RE 20 for Kick. I also have a couple Beta 58's an SM58 even a vintage PE54 at my disposal. I been having a hell of a time being one person all trying to test out XY, NOS, OTRF, even recorderman's technique.
We are recording a Brand New set of Pork Pie's
I guess my main question is, should I be steering away from a more overhead driven approach and to a more direct miking technique because of the size and deadness of the room.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.........3 hrs and counting until the Big RED recording light goes on.
 
You tell me. You've been testing out all sorts of methods, which one sounds best? I've always felt 4 mics are plenty. Is Recorderman or Glyn Johns not working ?
 
They all seem to sound pretty good. X/Y being the best so far, but that's listening with headphone's on while playing them. I seem to be having a little trouble with Recorderman's setup though, when I get the Right (over the shoulder) mic where it's supposed to be distance wise (equal from snare and bass) its seems I just have two mic's on the left of the kit.
I think I'm looking for a method where the overheads act more like direct mic's and less like room mic's.
 
2 mics to the left ?? Are you setting it up right? One of the mics should be near you floor tom. The other one should be above the snare. It won't give you a huge stereo sound but it shouldn't sound lop sided. If you want a more stereo sound try putting an overhead to the left and another one to the right. But you'll have to watch out for phase problems.
 
I use to use a beta58 on snare, and it was definitely one of my favorite snare mics.
 
saads said:
Don't do that. Record, then listen.
Click to expand...


Ya I think I'm going to convince the drummer we need to spend today just messing with setup so we can record and then listen back to the mix of the different overhead setup's.

I was having trouble because I couldn't seem to get the over the shoulder mic closer to the tom without it being farther away from the snare but to close to the kick....if that makes sense:(
 
jeliot86 said:
having a little trouble with Recorderman's setup though, when I get the Right (over the shoulder) mic where it's supposed to be distance wise (equal from snare and bass) its seems I just have two mic's on the left of the kit.
Click to expand...

Like saads, I can't see how that would happen. One mic should be directly over the snare, pointing down. How does it end up on the left of the kit?

Also, if the room is so dead, why don't you remove the foam and some of the carpeting, or is that not an option? It's certainly not helping you acoustically, especially the foam.
 
AMcB said:
I use to use a beta58 on snare, and it was definitely one of my favorite snare mics.
Click to expand...

Ya I'm actually going to try if for the first time today because of it's higher frequency response as apposed to the classic 57/58
 
jeliot86 said:
Ya I think I'm going to convince the drummer we need to spend today just messing with setup so we can record and then listen back to the mix of the different overhead setup's.

I was having trouble because I couldn't seem to get the over the shoulder mic closer to the tom without it being farther away from the snare but to close to the kick....if that makes sense:(
Click to expand...

You shouldn't need to bring it closer to the toms. Do your toms ring, or do you have them all choked up? Is recording in a room that's not so dead an option?
 
RAMI said:
Like saads, I can't see how that would happen. One mic should be directly over the snare, pointing down. How does it end up on the left of the kit?

Also, if the room is so dead, why don't you remove the foam and some of the carpeting, or is that not an option? It's certainly not helping you acoustically, especially the foam.
Click to expand...

Well at first thought where the room was soooooooo small and the walla angle in to the ceiling, I felt no reflections would be better than everything bouncing around in such a small confined space. Maybe I'm way off???? I'm still learning:o
 
RAMI said:
Like saads, I can't see how that would happen. One mic should be directly over the snare, pointing down. How does it end up on the left of the kit?

Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, I'm not a drummer. I look at the Kick being the center of the kit, from there he has his snare to HIS left of the kick.
Click to expand...
 
Can't you put the kit somewhere else? A drum set in a tiny room filled with foam will sound pretty horrible.
 
saads said:
You shouldn't need to bring it closer to the toms. Do your toms ring, or do you have them all choked up? Is recording in a room that's not so dead an option?
Click to expand...

No actually these puppy's are lively as hell. I made the mistake once of choking the hell out of his other kit.....which brings us back to why he's back recording a second take:o
 
jeliot86 said:
Well at first thought where the room was soooooooo small and the walla angle in to the ceiling, I felt no reflections would be better than everything bouncing around in such a small confined space. Maybe I'm way off???? I'm still learning:o
Click to expand...

No, you're not way off. You obviously don't want to hear the drums bouncing off the wall like a slap-back echo.

The problem is, if it's THAT small and bad sounding a room, you can only expect to get limited results. So, the problem might not be in your micing techniques, you just might be limited by the room you're recording in. The foam might stop the echo, but it's really only trapping (if you can call it that) a very limited band (somewhere around 800hz and up). So, now you end up with the low mids and bass frequencies still bouncing all over the place. That usually results in a very muffled or fluffy sound. You might want to try removing SOME of the foam and/or carpeting.

Also, I know this might be obvious, but his drums have to have new skins and be tuned to sound as awesome as they can sound. Especially in your case, with the less than ideal room, etc...If not, nothing else down your chain can save them.
 
saads said:
Can't you put the kit somewhere else? A drum set in a tiny room filled with foam will sound pretty horrible.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, my only option at this point would be to take down the foam but would I be any better of in a tiny room with reflections bouncing every which way?
 
jeliot86 said:
Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, I'm not a drummer. I look at the Kick being the center of the kit, from there he has his snare to HIS left of the kick.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see what you mean. I might have to go back and take a look at the Recorderman method. I always thought the mic goes directly over the snare, not above the kik. Either way, I put my mic right over the snare and get the second mic the exact same distance from the snare as the first mic.
 
RAMI said:
No, you're not way off. You obviously don't want to hear the drums bouncing off the wall like a slap-back echo.

The problem is, if it's THAT small and bad sounding a room, you can only expect to get limited results. So, the problem might not be in your micing techniques, you just might be limited by the room you're recording in. The foam might stop the echo, but it's really only trapping (if you can call it that) a very limited band (somewhere around 800hz and up). So, now you end up with the low mids and bass frequencies still bouncing all over the place. That usually results in a very muffled or fluffy sound. You might want to try removing SOME of the foam and/or carpeting.

Also, I know this might be obvious, but his drums have to have new skins and be tuned to sound as awesome as they can sound. Especially in your case, with the less than ideal room, etc...If not, nothing else down your chain can save them.
Click to expand...

Brand new drums that are rockin' acoustically. Trying really hard not to suck the life outta them.....lol
 
RAMI said:
Ah, I see what you mean. I might have to go back and take a look at the Recorderman method. I always thought the mic goes directly over the snare, not above the kik. Either way, I put my mic right over the snare and get the second mic the exact same distance from the snare as the first mic.
Click to expand...

Yes. The recorderman has a mic straight up over the snare. The second mic is off the drummers floor-tom side shoulder, around ear level, pointed at the snare. Both capsules should be equidistant from the snare and kick.

If you have close mics, use them. What can it hurt?
 
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