upgrading soundcard. SB live (yes) to... ? delta 44? 66? audiophile 192?

[Fetusborg]

hello everyone

for all my guerilla recordings... i've been using my SB Live FFE0 soundcard. never thought of upgrading, because my results have been what i wanted.
ive had great luck getting a nice sound.

but nows the time for upgrades. im evolving, which makes me happy.

i looked at the delta 44, 66 and audiophile 192.

my setup is the simplest ever.
i mic and amp, and go straight to the sound card line in. no mixer, no preamp. i do everything digitally. with adobe audition. never have any need to record two simultaneous tracks. my drums are made in fruity loops and exported to audition.

although... i am thinking of exploring a live drum sound. really lo-fi though. set up a kick snare and high hat in my room... one mic on each... maybe an overhead at most. and record that simultaneously. toms,crash,splash and ride i'd record separatly no probs.

and i am also going to explore some midi's. as i've just bought a microkorg.
never used midis in my life... but i will.

so, what do you guys recommend?
is there really a great difference in sound between my SB live and the ones i mentioned above?

buying one of these sound cards... will i need to buy something else? like a preamp?

and is it possible to buy say the delta 66, which has no midi i/o... but also keep my SB live, which does?

and what is a digital i/o ? do i really need that?

thanks everyone in advance

 

[underp]

I had a delta 1010LT for a while. (PCI you know).....

anyway.... i got in desesperation and i had to sell the card, because of the bad news. ( PCI is going to dissapear )



My recommendation will be, stay away from PCI.
PCI cards picks electrical interference caused by the tons of electrical components around you, including your own PC.

You'll never going to get a clean signal with a PCI card.

-----------


But if you need one.... i will say AP192...

Is the only card from M-AUDIO with the best Analog/Digital converters,
the other ones, will never catch a decent representation of what you're putting on them.

 

[solo.guitar]

I had a delta 1010LT for a while. (PCI you know).....

anyway.... i got in desesperation and i had to sell the card, because of the bad news. ( PCI is going to dissapear )



My recommendation will be, stay away from PCI.
PCI cards picks electrical interference caused by the tons of electrical components around you, including your own PC.

You'll never going to get a clean signal with a PCI card.

I'd have to disagree with most of this.

Never get a clean signal with a PCI card? Some cards do make some noise because of interferance with other parts in the computer, but well built cards don't, at least not to the point where it's audible.

You mentioned you don't have a preamp? What kind of mic are you using? If it's a PC mic I would upgrade that before anything else.

If you are happy with the sound you are getting, then maybe you don't need a "better" soundcard, maybe just one with more options.

Try looking at the M-Audio 24/96, it's got the basics, and also a MIDI port since you mentioned MIDI. And it's definately better than a SoundBlaster.

Also, for drums, if you want a good sound, get ToonTrack's EZDrummer. Once you get a MIDI keyboard, you can play the drums that way and the quality of the drum sounds are real good.

 

[underp]

Tell the boy "PCI sucks". you know it

 

[Robert D]

My recommendation will be, stay away from PCI.
PCI cards picks electrical interference caused by the tons of electrical components around you, including your own PC.

You'll never going to get a clean signal with a PCI card.

Simply not true. Lynx cards are considered to be of mastering quality in the pro audio world, and of audiophile quality in the audiophile world, and their measurements bear that out, as does my experience with them. Your 1010LT experience is not a good basis on which to form, and to broadcast as fact, an opinion on PCI audio. It's a great value, but falls short of the quality of the 44,66,or 1010 in the delta series.

 

[Fetusborg]

ok, nice.
thanks for the replys.

i dont have a preamp. i mic my guitar amp with a sm57... straight to the soundcard. works fine for me. and vocals go straight in to. i use either the sm57 or a nice sony md mic.

so i guess it boils down to the audiophile 192... because of midi capability.
it has 4 ins/outs. does that mean i can record my live drums? using 4 mics?
straight into the soundcard, as i do with my guitar amp mic... and those 4 tracks will record straight to my adobe audition ?

or am i seriously missing something?
i will eventually get my mixer fixed. an alesis studio24. then maybe i can pass my miced drums into its channels... then out it to the soundcard. but that would be basically the same thing as going direct to soundcard right... in a 4x4 in/out sense.

 

[ocnor]

Nope you can't just run the mics straight into the soundcard. The soundcard has line level inputs so you have to run the mics into a preamp first. Your SB has a crappy preamp built in which is why you were able to run a mic straight into it.

 

[warble2]

...( PCI is going to dissapear )

My recommendation will be, stay away from PCI.
PCI cards picks electrical interference caused by the tons of electrical components around you, including your own PC.

You'll never going to get a clean signal with a PCI card..

 

[ofajen]

I had a delta 1010LT for a while. (PCI you know).....

anyway.... i got in desesperation and i had to sell the card, because of the bad news. ( PCI is going to dissapear )

Please explain this. When I read about PCI Express, such as in the new Mac Pro, it claims to be backward compatible with PCI, meaning PCI cards will work in PCI Express slots. So, what's the big deal? Seems like PCI gear should be usable for many years to come.

BTW, I too utterly reject your assertion that PCI systems are inherently inferior. Indeed, most high end systems that I know anything of are PCI based. Well designed PCI systems don't have any low level signals anywhere near the CPU. USB systems are typically low-cost, low-end (portable) systems because of their bandwidth limitations and Firewire is used as a convenience to allow portability and easy interconnectivity, not to correct any inherent audio quality problem in PCI systems.

Otto

 

[gordone]

WTF! Because PCI might not be supported in the future, you dumped a perfectly decent piece of hardware???? Hmmmm, better throw away my Delta 44 and my Firewire card.

Regarding the lack of clean signal with a PCI-based A/D, that is 100% incorrect! If the A/D (especially the analog circuitry) is poorly designed, then of course you'll get a crummy signal. There is nothing inherent in PCI-based systems that precludes getting a clean A/D conversion.

I had a delta 1010LT for a while. (PCI you know).....

anyway.... i got in desesperation and i had to sell the card, because of the bad news. ( PCI is going to dissapear )

My recommendation will be, stay away from PCI.
PCI cards picks electrical interference caused by the tons of electrical components around you, including your own PC.

You'll never going to get a clean signal with a PCI card.

-----------


But if you need one.... i will say AP192...

Is the only card from M-AUDIO with the best Analog/Digital converters,
the other ones, will never catch a decent representation of what you're putting on them.

 

[gordone]

To rant a little more on underp's conclusion that PCI sucks, that's like saying:
I have a DSLR camera, and I stuck a crappy lens on it, the pictures came out sucky, therefore, you'll never take a good picture with a DSLR camera

 

[warble2]

FWIW, I've never had issues with PCI audio cards. I've used an M-audio 24/96, an Echo MIA, and Echo Gina 24 and now an Echo Layla 3G. The 3G has a breakout box (as did the Gina 24), and I'm pretty positive this is a better design approach, but I'm not buying all this "PCI is shit" talk. There is a handful of people here that are on a mission against PCI, and I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

And here's one more for you underp....

 

[altitude909]

"PCI is shit" talk. There is a handful of people here that are on a mission against PCI, and I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

Bingo. As long as business use PCI based hardware (which is alot) PCI will be common on PC's. We have almost $50k invested in PCI DAQ hardware and if PCI goes away, we just wont upgrade those computers. I'm sure mobo ppl know that damn well and who really care is Mac's dont support PCI anymore? 2 out of 100 computers sold is a mac, not much of a market when u look at the big picture. PCI is still faster than firewire and unlike firewire, has DMA and u cant beat that for audio

 

[warble2]

Bingo. As long as business use PCI based hardware (which is alot) PCI will be common on PC's. We have almost $50k invested in PCI DAQ hardware and if PCI goes away, we just wont upgrade those computers. I'm sure mobo ppl know that damn well and who really care is Mac's dont support PCI anymore? 2 out of 100 computers sold is a mac, not much of a market when u look at the big picture. PCI is still faster than firewire and unlike firewire, has DMA and u cant beat that for audio

I'll say bingo too! I'd agree on the audio aspect too - I've been able to achieve superb latency as well as no sound issues via PCI. Firewire is isn't too far off from the speed of PCI, but if you're not needing the portability (I don't), PCI isn't a bad choice at all. I'm more than pleased with the Layla 3G's performance.

 

[Fetusborg]

ok...
after underp being bashed and not retorting here.. haha... i'd like to thank the help received.

two final questions...
say i do buy the audiophile 192... i'd have to buy a preamp as well. but does my alesis studio24 mixer not come with a built in preamp? so can't i just go mic-mixer-soundcard ?

and final question: with audiophile 192 4 ins and outs... i can record live drums right? mic my kick, snare, hh and overhead... to my mixer... to the soundcard... no probs? i read up the actually capabilities of having 4 ins and outs on the 192, and discovered that micing 4 things at a time is not necessarily possible. conflicting reports, yes, but i better make sure here on the board first you know.

ok, thanks

 

[altitude909]

with audiophile 192 4 ins and outs... i can record live drums right?

There are only 2 analog inputs, the other in/out is SPDIF (digital)

but does my alesis studio24 mixer not come with a built in preamp?

Yes it does but if you record any number of channels at once, there will only be 1 stereo track with all the sounds on it or 2 mono tracks if you pan the channels accordingly

 

[bewildered]

with audiophile 192 4 ins and outs... i can record live drums right?


There are only 2 analog inputs, the other in/out is SPDIF (digital)

uh no. there are a set of spdif in/out on the card itself, and the attachment piece has 3 quarter inch in's and 3 quarter inch outs (analogue or whatever). Of course since it doesnt have a preamp built into it you got to use a set of those quarter inch's to connect to a reciever to play sound.

 

[altitude909]

uh no. there are a set of spdif in/out on the card itself, and the attachment piece has 3 quarter inch in's and 3 quarter inch outs (analogue or whatever). Of course since it doesnt have a preamp built into it you got to use a set of those quarter inch's to connect to a reciever to play sound.

Uh, no. I'm quite right. If you bother to actually look something up instead assuming that those are inputs, you would find that they are 2 ins and 4 outs

Audiophile 192 Features
Up to 24-bit/192kHz audio
2 balanced analog inputs (1/4 in. TRS)
2 balanced analog outputs (1/4 in. TRS)
S/PDIF digital I/O (coaxial RCA connectors) with 2-channel PCM
SCMS copy protection control
Digital I/O supports surround-encoded AC-3 and DTS pass-through**
Direct hardware input monitoring via separate balanced 1/4 in. TRS monitor outputs
Software routing of inputs and outputs
Digital I/O can be routed to/from external effects
16-channel MIDI I/O
ASIO, WDM, GSIF 2 and Core Audio driver support for compatibility with most applications
64-bit driver support for Windows
PCI 2.2 compatibility
Works with other Delta cards*

 

[brzilian]

Don't waste the extra money on the 192. The Audiophile 2496 will work just fine and only cost $99.

 

[Daveg62]

I still have this all boxed up. Just haven't gotten around to put it up on ebay yet. It worked flawlessly when I used it for a few months. I went to a Motu 828 MK II, had all kind of issues, and now I'm using an RME Multiface and couldn't be happier. The 192 is still available. It's like brand new, just wanted to hang onto it in case I had issues with the used RME I bought.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=211791&highlight=audiophile+192