Upgrade Pre Amp or mics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter whattaguy
  • Start date Start date
What you recording?

I always say upgrade the preamp if the mics are decent....

Depends what you are recording I guess...
 
I agree...you're mic is pretty good as it is. A better pre with an eq and a compressor would be a good step right now. Other than the RNP you could look at the Tampa or an Envoice.

Jacob
 
I'm using my Carvin 16 channel mixer as my pre amp... *ducks head in shame* :( Ask me what I'm upgrading next. :D
 
Since you already have dome decent clean pres and a decent mic, and you appear to want something for vocals, I would save a little more and get a single channel of high-end pre in the $700-$800 range like one of the new UA Solo units, a Speck 5.0, a Sebatron Vmp 1000, or a True Solo. The next step would be to start looking for a vocal mic that best matched my voice with that pre.
 
Depending on how much of a variety of things you record, you might want a *different* mic or mics, like a pair of SDC's for example. If you are only interested in improving your vocal sound, then yeah, go with a nicer pre.
 
What are you recording? What are you not liking about your current recordings? Is your room acoustically treated?
 
Check out my response right before yours...it's my first song with my friend.

My mic list:

AT4040 definitely my go to vox mic, used in the song
MK319 sounds a bit mushy on the highs
SP B1 bright but not open

MK012 Acoustic guitar mics, used in the song
Senn. e609 silver E. guitar mic, used in the song

SM57 haven't used it much
e835 " "
SM58 " "

ATM25, kick
Audix D6, kick

Thanks.
 
whattaguy said:
AT4040 definitely my go to vox mic, used in the song
MK319 sounds a bit mushy on the highs
SP B1 bright but not open

MK012 Acoustic guitar mics, used in the song
Senn. e609 silver E. guitar mic, used in the song

SM57 haven't used it much
e835 " "
SM58 " "

ATM25, kick
Audix D6, kick

Yeah, seems like your mic locker is way ahead of your pre's. I like the "weakest link" way of upgrading, so get yourself a nice pre
Also, about the MK319.. if you are feeling adventurous and have a steady hand, try removing the black plastic HF boost disc in front of the diaphram. The grill comes off with the four flat head screws, it's another handful of screws around the edge of the diaphram that hold the disc on. It really cleaned up the high end on mine, much more detailed and less "smeared" transient response.
 
I dont' think the 4050 is that much different from the 4040. I think the 4050 just adds the option of differnt mic patterns (cardiod, omni, fig8 etc) so "upgrading" to the 4050 will not significantly change your sound.

The mic pre will make a much bigger difference.
 
I don't think there's any reason why someone can't get a good quality sound from that setup. They may not have the wow factor or the boutique status, but both the Soundcraft boards and AT mics are more than capable of delivering the goods if used well, and the Layla is a decent enough audio interface.

At this stage, if you want to make noticeable improvements I think it's time to start turning your attention to the basics; improving the accoustics of your space, looking at better monitors, perhaps ... maybe look at some good compressors and/or EQ, but the biggest determinant of recording quality will be the instrument itself. Upgrading your instruments, amps, drums, etc. will all deliver far greater improvements in sonics, by leaps and bounds. Example: I always get a kick out of guys who ask "What DI box will get me a better bass sound?" Well, you could try ditching that shitty bass. :D Or getting it set up or changing the strings once in a while. You could plug a really good bass in to just about anything and it would probably sound great. Same with guitar amps; some amps just record well and are easy to track. Ditto for drum kits. Expensive cymbals are expensive for a reason; because they're smooth, and make your $100 Oktava sound like a Schoeps. There are very similar reasons why Taylor accoustic guitars are priced the way they are.

At this stage, I just don't see where your current gear would be anything that would hold someone back. You can make decent, even very good-sounding records with your current signal chain.
 
chessrock said:
I don't think there's any reason why someone can't get a good quality sound from that setup. They may not have the wow factor or the boutique status, but both the Soundcraft boards and AT mics are more than capable of delivering the goods if used well, and the Layla is a decent enough audio interface.

At this stage, if you want to make noticeable improvements I think it's time to start turning your attention to the basics; improving the accoustics of your space, looking at better monitors, perhaps ... maybe look at some good compressors and/or EQ, but the biggest determinant of recording quality will be the instrument itself. Upgrading your instruments, amps, drums, etc. will all deliver far greater improvements in sonics, by leaps and bounds. Example: I always get a kick out of guys who ask "What DI box will get me a better bass sound?" Well, you could try ditching that shitty bass. :D Or getting it set up or changing the strings once in a while. You could plug a really good bass in to just about anything and it would probably sound great. Same with guitar amps; some amps just record well and are easy to track. Ditto for drum kits. Expensive cymbals are expensive for a reason; because they're smooth, and make your $100 Oktava sound like a Schoeps. There are very similar reasons why Taylor accoustic guitars are priced the way they are.

At this stage, I just don't see where your current gear would be anything that would hold someone back. You can make decent, even very good-sounding records with your current signal chain.


Thanks. You just saved me $500+ dollars! :D

Can anyone comment on the song I posted a couple of posts up? That's what I got from my set-up.

Thanks a bunch.
 
Just for kicks, try the MC012 on vocals. I had good success on some with it.
 
whattaguy said:
Thanks. You just saved me $500+ dollars! :D

Actually, I didn't save you any money at all. I just recommend you channel it elsewhere. :D

Anyway, I had a listen to your recording, and there are several issues going on, none of which are related to recording gear (mics, pres, etc.). First off, the guitar sound isn't up to snuff. You need to get a better sound out of it, or move on to a better amp. Learn how to work the knobs; use the tone controls, gain, volume, etc. and experiment with mic positioning so that you can get a sound that isn't so mushy and annoying. A good "recording" distortion sound is very different from a good "rehearsal" distortion (or "in the room" distortion). Learn the difference between the two, and how to translate one to the other. It's the hardest thing to learn, but the easiest thing to do once you learn it. And it takes time -- several years for some people, in fact. Welcome to the world of recording.

The drums aren't half bad. I like them, but you could stand to learn a few things about compressing them in order to get greater impact in the same manner as you've done with your vocals, which are easily your strongest track from an engineering standpoint by the way (although you could probably do without the overused lo-fi effect).

I'm also suspecting you could benefit greatly from combining close mics on the snare, kick, etc ... in phase, of course. And if you have already been doing this, then it's probably time to address your monitoring situation, because your music, overall, sounds like it was mixed in an environment where you weren't hearing everything properly. I'm guessing either small, cheapish monitors in an untreated room or maybe even headphones or computer speakers (gasp!).

Also, go back and read my statement I made earlier about bass guitars. :D And know that you stand accused of that offense. Again, you should use a quality bass and have it set up twice a year ... once if you're an infrequent player, and use quality, newish strings when recording. Always and without exception. And don't be afraid to dial in some mids and cut a little of the woof if you're going direct. Unfortunately, I didn't save you any money with that statement ... nor with my statement about your guitar amp or monitors. :D Oh well.

Once you start developing your ears and get yourself in a good monitoring setup, you probably won't need any of the advice I just gave you, because you'll be able to hear all of this stuff for yourself and will be able to make these kinds of judgement calls on the spot.
 
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chessrock said:
Actually, I didn't save you any money at all. I just recommend you channel it elsewhere. :D

Anyway, I had a listen to your recording, and there are several issues going on, none of which are related to recording gear (mics, pres, etc.). First off, the guitar sound isn't up to snuff. You need to get a better sound out of it, or move on to a better amp. Learn how to work the knobs; use the tone controls, gain, volume, etc. and experiment with mic positioning so that you can get a sound that isn't so mushy and annoying. A good "recording" distortion sound is very different from a good "rehearsal" distortion (or "in the room" distortion). Learn the difference between the two, and how to translate one to the other. It's the hardest thing to learn, but the easiest thing to do once you learn it. And it takes time -- several years for some people, in fact. Welcome to the world of recording.

The drums aren't half bad. I like them, but you could stand to learn a few things about compressing them in order to get greater impact in the same manner as you've done with your vocals, which are easily your strongest track from an engineering standpoint by the way (although you could probably do without the overused lo-fi effect).

I'm also suspecting you could benefit greatly from combining close mics on the snare, kick, etc ... in phase, of course. And if you have already been doing this, then it's probably time to address your monitoring situation, because your music, overall, sounds like it was mixed in an environment where you weren't hearing everything properly. I'm guessing either small, cheapish monitors in an untreated room or maybe even headphones or computer speakers (gasp!).

Also, go back and read my statement I made earlier about bass guitars. :D And know that you stand accused of that offense. Again, you should use a quality bass and have it set up twice a year ... once if you're an infrequent player, and use quality, newish strings when recording. Always and without exception. And don't be afraid to dial in some mids and cut a little of the woof if you're going direct. Unfortunately, I didn't save you any money with that statement ... nor with my statement about your guitar amp or monitors. :D Oh well.

Once you start developing your ears and get yourself in a good monitoring setup, you probably won't need any of the advice I just gave you, because you'll be able to hear all of this stuff for yourself and will be able to make these kinds of judgement calls on the spot.


Thanks for the very constructive feedback, Chess.
I had a feeling that it was the room...I can't do much about that now, because I am in a temporary living situation. When I get my own space and a job (just moved to Chicago from Seattle), I'll deal with that. But I guess I'll have to work with what I have now.

The drums were done through DKFH Superior. I'll try to add some compression to it (still learning how to use compression).

I can't blame you on the bass...it's a very cheap bass, and I'm not a bassist. I had to take out all the mids because my bass eminates this nasty hiss otherwise...I have to work with what I have. Again, thanks for your feedback on that.

I need to work on the electric more. That was done with an LP Studio through a Boss DS-1 pedal through a Roland Cube. I have a Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb that sounds sweet, but also has an inherently characteristic hiss. And because of my living situation, I can't turn it up loud enough to get the sweet tone out of it. But I'll play with it more.

As for monitors, I have a pair of KRK RP8s. I'm still trying to get to know them. I almost feel like they make the music sound too good. From a listening point of view, what should I be paying attention to in a mix? And, yes, my room is untreated.

I will take out the cheap telephone effect on the vox...it's not a must. I will also give your compliments to my buddy, the singer, as well.

Well...to say the least, I guess it's not the equipment. I just gotta do a lot of learning and experimentation. This was my first "real" studio attempt at a recording. This constructive feedback was very profitable. Thanks.
 
whattaguy said:
The drums were done through DKFH Superior.

I'm really impressed with what people can do with that stuff. It's gotten to where I sometimes can't tell the difference. Really impressive. You could totally get by with those samples. For the guitars, I might recommend one of the Marshall "master volume" models like the JCM800 and JCM2000 combo amps. Those allow you to really crank the volume knob and drive the power tubes ... while turning down the master volume so that you don't have to have the neighbors of roommates call the police on you. :D Another option would be to get one of those power soak things like the THD Hotplate. So there are options.

Next up, I'd either take in your current bass in to a shop and have the hiss thing worked out, or simply buy a new / used bass. You could try Music-go-Round in my neighborhood around Milwaukee and Wabansia. They have lots of good used basses there. See if you can score a Fender Jazz ... and plug that in to an ART Tube MP and you'll be in business.

Do that stuff and your recording quality will dramatically improve. You can always address the monitoring situation at another time, as it sounds like there isn't much flexibility for you there at this time.
 
if you are using single coils on your bass, does the hiss go away at all if you shut down the computer or at least the monitor? It might be bad wiring, but with my MIM fender jazz i need to kill the monitor on my PC when playing, or move across the room, or i get a hiss.

Dave
 
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