unwanted guitar buzzing/distortion

[bardogodspeed]

hello, here is the latest.

I replaced the USB cable which did nothing. However, I noticed the buzzing was less last night. I can't explain why, I changed nothing. But I think I've narrowed this down to a frequency issue. The buzzing was still there (although less), however it only happened when I played either my low E or A string (or chords where those strings were used). The high strings were fine, no buzzing! Has anyone ever heard of certain frequencies causing a buzzing, distorted sound?

I ended up plugging my guitar in direct and messing around with DAW effects. Man, I got a great sound through some virtual tube amps and distortion effects. Better than mic'ing my amp even (and will result in less analog hiss). And messing around with these effects changed my sound so much that the buzzing wasn't even there anymore.

So even though I haven't really solved this problem, I'm thinking about just continuing this project while recording my guitar direct using these VST effects. This has another huge advantage: I have a family (with a baby who goes to bed early), and this way I can record in the late hours without a blaring amp annoying everybody. What do you think?

 

[bardogodspeed]

hello, here is the latest.

I replaced the USB cable which did nothing. However, I noticed the buzzing was less last night. I can't explain why, I changed nothing. But I think I've narrowed this down to a frequency issue. The buzzing was still there (although less), however it only happened when I played either my low E or A string (or chords where those strings were used). The high strings were fine, no buzzing! Has anyone ever heard of certain frequencies causing a buzzing, distorted sound?

I ended up plugging my guitar in direct and messing around with DAW effects. Man, I got a great sound through some virtual tube amps and distortion effects. Better than mic'ing my amp even (and will result in less analog hiss). And messing around with these effects changed my sound so much that the buzzing wasn't even there anymore.

So even though I haven't really solved this problem, I'm thinking about just continuing this project while recording my guitar direct using these VST effects. This has another huge advantage: I have a family (with a baby who goes to bed early), and this way I can record in the late hours without a blaring amp annoying everybody. What do you think?

 

[gregsk777]

Still think it is the actual USB unit itself. If it was your guitar then you would have noticed it in your amp.

My only other idea would be to install the USB drivers on a different computer and see if the same problem arises.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Post a recording so we can hear the noise. It might be easy to identify.

 

[bardogodspeed]

@greg: I think you are right.

@Chibi Nappa: great idea, I will do that and post within the next couple days.

 

[buzzard bass]

Is the guitar active? Check for a low Battery, it will cause this kind of distortion.

 

[bardogodspeed]

active guitar? huh? the guitar isn't battery powered. neither is the laptop or usb interface.

 

[jabairdj]

Reduced Gain to Minimum Fixed Mine

I've been having this same problem with an Alesis MultiMix 4, trying to record acoustic electric 6 string and 4 string bass, getting distortion with both. There is a guitar/line in switch that doesn't seem to do anything. I've played around with all kinds of settings, and after reading this thread, I've started reducing the gain. Previously it was set at midway, which works well with the microphones.

Both guitars do have active, or battery powered pickups. Who would have thought that you need to turn the gain on the Alesis completely down in order to remove the distortion. Now I just adjust volume on the guitar, and the line in, and leave the gain at minimum setting.

Some of the newer guitars have a pretty well hidden pockets for the batteries. This might be grasping at straws, but is it possible that you might have an active/battery powered system, and you've just never had to replace the battery?

 

[bardogodspeed]

I've had this guitar (american strat) for over 10 years and have not known anything about any batteries in the pickups. I don't think it has them.

The problem is frequency-related, that is, it's very noticable on the lower strings (and bass guitar), but higher strings exhibit no distortion.

Anyway, finally I've was able to record an audio snippet for you guys to hear. It may not jump right out at you, but listen close and you will hear exactly what I'm talking about. On the lower strings and chords there is definite buzzing/distortion. Please let me know what you all think!

 

[DrewPeterson7]

That sounds fine to me, man - if I had to bet, I'd say that what you're hearing is a tiny amount of grit from your amp's preamp or poweramp, but whatever it is sounds like the amp and not your interface to me.

What kind of amp is it? It's not really unusual to hear the low end start to break up a little bit before the high end does, especially on a tube amp. And for whatever reason any distortion sounds a bit more pronounced recorded than it does in the room - I think the room sort of smooths out the sound of a guitar a little, but monitoring from right out front you don't get that smoothing effect.

Anyway, long story short, if you want a cleaner clean sound (and, personally, I prefer clean sounds with a little grit to them), either turn down the amp or if you have a gain knob on your clean channel, turn that down somewhat.

 

[bardogodspeed]

This is not from the amp, because I was plugged in direct. It first happened with a mic'd amp, so I went direct to try to narrow down the problem.

And it's not clipping, first person who tells me that gets slapped! just kidding. I made absolute sure I had my levels good. It's a frequency thing, but why?????

 

[DrewPeterson7]

This is not from the amp, because I was plugged in direct. It first happened with a mic'd amp, so I went direct to try to narrow down the problem.

And it's not clipping, first person who tells me that gets slapped! just kidding. I made absolute sure I had my levels good. It's a frequency thing, but why?????

Sorry man, but if that's not your amp that's providing a bit of grit, then you're definitely slightly overdriving your preamp on your interface. It's not digital clipping, but it's clipping nonetheless.

Your description of your method - "turn it up until the clip light comes on, then back it off slightly until it stops" - makes it sound like you're running pretty hot at the preamp. And while digital clipping is all or nothing, analog clipping is a bit more gradual. Try turning your preamp down and, if need be, turning the guitar back up on your DAW if you need more volume.

I record nowhere NEAR the point where my preamp clips - I use a M-Audio ProFire 2626, and it has two LED indicators, a green one to show that a signal is coming into the pre and a red one for when it clips. At the levels I generally record at, the signal coming from my amp through the mic is rarely enough to hold a steady green LED indicator, much less come anywhere close to red. I think I generally peak around -18 to -20db when it hits my DAW, which is more than enough in 24-bit; during mixdown, I'll have most of the tracks around unity and have my master bus peaking at maybe -6 to -7db, which is just fine for a mix.

Anyway, long story short, it sounds like the low end of your guitar's signal is slightly overdriving the preamp of your converter.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

This is not from the amp, because I was plugged in direct.

Can you cut everything but the guitar out of the equation? There is an amp sim with reverb on the mp3 you posted. I can't tell if the problem is with the guitar/interface or an overloaded level being sent to the plugins.

Post a clip of guitar->interface->faders at zero plugins removed->render

See if that still has the static. Then we know it's somewhere in the guitar or preamp. If that recording doesn't have static, then you're probably overloading a plugin.


What I can tell you from the MP3 you posted is that you are recording too hot. Maybe hot enough to cause your problem, maybe the problem is elsewhere. But you will run into headroom problems for certain when mixing.

My guess right now is you are overloading a plugin.

 

[bardogodspeed]

@DrewPeterson: thanks for your reply. My description of "backing it off a little" was a while back, since then I have turned the preamp way down and am still getting this effect. But you could be right, that I am clipping at the preamp level. The problem is that I can't set the level of the guitar in the DAW; when setting the recording source to "USB Audio Codec", the input level on the DAW disappears - you have to set it at the preamp level. So when I try to record with the interface level set really low, I'm barely getting a waveform to register. Is there something else I can do? Like normalize this tiny little waveform into something I can actually hear? If that is the problem, it just doesn't seem right that I would have to record with the levels set so low on the interface that the resultant waveform on the DAW is a tiny little thing that I can barely see or hear. ?!?!

@Chibbi: I don't think I had anything running, but I may have forgotten to turn off some of the VST's I was running. I will record another snippet tonight and make sure I have everything set to 0. But I should mention that this problem first happened without any sims running, it was only by running some that I was able to slightly lessen it.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

So when I try to record with the interface level set really low, I'm barely getting a waveform to register. Is there something else I can do? Like normalize this tiny little waveform into something I can actually hear? If that is the problem, it just doesn't seem right that I would have to record with the levels set so low on the interface that the resultant waveform on the DAW is a tiny little thing that I can barely see or hear. ?!?!

Again, I generally track with peaks at -18 to -22 db, give or take. That's pretty quiet, much quieter than a commercial CD (which is kind of the point - pro studios aren't mixing down at the same level as a finished mastered recording). What the waveform looks like is absolutely irrelevant. What matters is how it sounds.

If you need more volume while tracking up, turn up the output on your monitors.

 

[bardogodspeed]

Thanks Drew. I will try recording very quiet. If I'm doing this though, what is the point of me even having a preamp? I thought they were for boosting your levels that simply plugging into your soundcard you wouldn't get. Or does it actually provide quality that you wouldn't get with a typical onboard soundcard? Should I just return this USB interface and plug direct into my shitty laptop sound card?

And once I record this tiny little waveform, even if I turn the volume on the DAW all the way up (which sounds like shit because then it will be hissing), it's still not loud enough. So do you recommend normalizing the waveform or something?

This all just seems ridiculous. I thought I'd be able to record a visible waveform, maybe at 70% height, that I can actually hear when I playback, with no clipping. I don't understand why this has to be so complicated.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

My description of "backing it off a little" was a while back, since then I have turned the preamp way down and am still getting this effect. But you could be right, that I am clipping at the preamp level.

Also keep in mind that many preamps have both an input and an output level. If this is the case with yours, you could very well be clipping in the analog domain after the input stage and then lowering the already clipped signal at the output stage before A/D conversion resulting in a recording that sounds clipped but never turned on a clip light in the DAW.

Check to see if your preamp has an output setting and keep it at zero (no gain, no cut).

The problem is that I can't set the level of the guitar in the DAW; when setting the recording source to "USB Audio Codec", the input level on the DAW disappears - you have to set it at the preamp level.

That shouldn't be a problem. Just set it at the preamp.

So when I try to record with the interface level set really low, I'm barely getting a waveform to register. Is there something else I can do? Like normalize this tiny little waveform into something I can actually hear?

Now we're getting at the problem. Your recording should look like a tiny little wave and will probably play back 3 times quieter than a finished CD. This is normal. Just turn your monitors up until it is loud.

If that is the problem, it just doesn't seem right that I would have to record with the levels set so low on the interface that the resultant waveform on the DAW is a tiny little thing that I can barely see or hear. ?!?!

Keep in mind how many other things have to be added to you guitar to make a song. Fraction of full + fraction of full + fraction of full + fraction etc = Full.

If the waves of the individual tracks were already near capacity, you would have full + full + full + full +etc = trouble.

Have you tried turning up the volume on your monitors?
Remember, it needs to be about 3 times louder than it would be for a finished song.

@Chibbi: I don't think I had anything running, but I may have forgotten to turn off some of the VST's I was running.

If your guitar can reverberate straight off of the pickups, I want one! I'm gonna guess there was a plugin or two.

 

[bardogodspeed]

Thanks Chibbi. This is all starting to register. It's just that I do have previous DAW recording experience, and I never experienced this problem before. True, we weren't recording bigass 90% waveforms, but we could at least see and hear them without normalizing or turning the monitor speakers way up. Still seems strange.

So I ask you, what is the point of me buying this USB Audio Interface? (I am using ART Dual Pre). I thought they were for giving you a bit of a "boost" that your onboard card wouldn't be able to provide. Or is it that they give you better quality, and in what way? I am recording only one track at a time - so an interface used to accept 8 inputs for recording drums is irrelevant to me.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Thanks Drew. I will try recording very quiet. If I'm doing this though, what is the point of me even having a preamp? I thought they were for boosting your levels that simply plugging into your soundcard you wouldn't get. Or does it actually provide quality that you wouldn't get with a typical onboard soundcard? Should I just return this USB interface and plug direct into my shitty laptop sound card?

The electrical signal off of a mic is so tiny that you can't record anything usable at all without a preamp. Even boosting a guitar to -18 is a large amplification. And yes, built-in soundcards do have microphone preamps. No, the quality won't be the same.

And once I record this tiny little waveform, even if I turn the volume on the DAW all the way up (which sounds like shit because then it will be hissing), it's still not loud enough.

Don't turn up in the DAW. Don't it up anywhere in the digital realm. Turn it up on your analog amplifier connected to your monitor speakers, or if you have powered monitors turn it up on whatever you have controlling their volume.

So do you recommend normalizing the waveform or something?

No. You will run into the same headroom problem when mixing.

This all just seems ridiculous. I thought I'd be able to record a visible waveform, maybe at 70% height, that I can actually hear when I playback, with no clipping. I don't understand why this has to be so complicated.

Don't worry about what it looks like. It will probably be a thin strip that takes up 20% of the space. Visuals don't matter. Besides, DAWs can zoom the view of the y-axis.

It's really not complicated. Set the preamp somewhere near -18 and record.

 

[Chibi Nappa]

Thanks Chibbi. This is all starting to register. It's just that I do have previous DAW recording experience, and I never experienced this problem before. True, we weren't recording bigass 90% waveforms, but we could at least see and hear them without normalizing or turning the monitor speakers way up. Still seems strange.

It's not just one particular DAW. Any digital recording will be this way. It's simply the nature of adding together parts and not overflowing the container that holds the mix.

So I ask you, what is the point of me buying this USB Audio Interface? (I am using ART Dual Pre). I thought they were for giving you a bit of a "boost" that your onboard card wouldn't be able to provide. Or is it that they give you better quality, and in what way? I am recording only one track at a time - so an interface used to accept 8 inputs for recording drums is irrelevant to me.

It's not about how loud it can get, it's about how well it can get loud.

Regular amps are the same way. A $50 amp might be able to push a set of speakers to their limit, but a $500 amp might be able to push those same speakers to the same volume with better sounding results.

Likewise it is not only about the number of inputs. I already had an interface with 16 preamps and I still happily parted with an insane amount of money for an additional 1-channel mono preamp because I like the sound so much.