Unopened Sticky and Non-sticky tapes wanted for research at the Library of Congress

[miroslav]

Tim...you just trying to stir something up or do you actually have a point to make?

1. The guy never posted his name or *official* LOC contact info.
2. Beck called it a scam before I did...so why are you just quoting me?
3. I already said that to be fair to the OP, his IP checks out as belonging to the LOC...but that doesn't necessarily mean anything....and the manner in which the OP is requesting *free* unopened/unused tapes, doesn't come off as very official...aka "legit".
4. The OP hasn't made any effort as yet to be more detailed/official.

AFA a box of SSS tape "being like gold"....???
Maybe you do....but I don't have the power that would allow me to just look at a box of *unopened/unused* tape, and deduce it has SSS, and that therefore I won't need it and can afford to ship it out to some guy.
Is there anyone here who can...?
Of course, if you have a case of tape, and some of it is SSS, one might *assume* all of it is...but honestly, how many people here wouldn't at least give the reel a one minute spin just to be sure...before tossing it or giving it away...?

So like...how many unopened/unused tapes are you sending him?

 

[miroslav]

If I had any unopened reels I sure wouldn't give them away.

That was my point. The cost of NOS unopened/unused tape is not any less (sometimes more) than current production tape....which ain't cheap.

I have no problem with any LOC study to identify/categorize SSS tapes...but unless I knew 100% that some of my unopened/unused tapes had SSS...I would not give them away.
That said...at this "late" hour in the world of analog tape...how much will the study benefit tape users?
I mean, good luck finding decent NOS tape out there to even buy these days...especially unopened/unused...so the study may only end up being mainly of historical value by the time it's completed. I think the tapes that people already have in their possession...most know what is SSS and what isn't...'cuz they've used it.

Oh...I actually scored about 2 cases of NOS EMTEC 911 1/4" tape on 7" reels a couple of weeks ago...and I have a case of 7" EMTEC 468, and also a few cases of 911 on 10" reels and a case of EMTEC 468...
...and you better bring a gun.

Original BASF/EMTEC tape in NOS condition, is almost as rare as hen's teeth.


I do have about 6 reels of older 2" Ampex 456 with SSS....anyone want them?

 

[Lt. Bob]

unless I'm mistaken if you bake them properly you can use them fine for a month or two. And then you can bake them again ..... once again I might be wrong but that's what I seem to remember. For sure I've read that if they're baked correctly they behave just like good tape for a while.

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...though not sure if you can bake them over and over endlessly...? I think Ampex claimed you could, but most people suggest you bake them...transfer whatever is on them...and then move on.

I think for tracking to tape and dumping to DAW...you could make good use of SSS tapes if baking brings them back to life...
...but not for long-term storage. I mean, I wouldn't take the chance in the hopes that one day re-baking them would make the tracks usable. From what I've read, the baking effect only holds for about a month or two.....

One of the reasons I have not tossed my SSS tapes is that I figure at some point if I really have nothing left...I'll break out the food dehydrator and bake me up a couple of reels.

 

[Lt. Bob]

no .... you absolutely wouldn't want them for anything long term.
But if they work for say, a month..... and I've read it's more like a couple of months ... you could use them to record something as long as you knew you could finish and transfer it within that time period.

 

[miroslav]

no .... you absolutely wouldn't want them for anything long term.
But if they work for say, a month..... and I've read it's more like a couple of months ... you could use them to record something as long as you knew you could finish and transfer it within that time period.

Yup....DITTO!

That's kinda why I'm hesitant to toss the half-dozen 2" Ampex 456 tape I have with SSS...if needed, I figure I could shake-n-bake a reel, do a session, and then transfer to DAW before the SSS comes back.
Tape is just too expensive to toss these days. One reel of new 2" is like $250 or more, depending on the brand/formulation.
I've picked up a bunch of used tape on eBay for less than 1/5th of that per reel....so far, most of it is still pretty usable.

 

[Beck]

That's the tricky thing about understanding sticky-shed and baking. Ideally you use what you know to avoid sticky-shed completely for new recording, but if you have an older recording that needs to be rescued and transferred you have baking as a recovery solution. There's even a seller on eBay selling old "One-pass" tape that cautions the buyer to bake before using. That's a complete misunderstanding of the baking process. It's not really to make bad tape good again for new recording. It will never be quite as sonically good as tape without sticky-shed and sticky-shed tape is harder on tape decks. By the time it's showing the obvious signs again it's already put a lot more wear on your heads and the rest of the transport than good tape would. So you bake a tape once to recover music on it and then you toss it. That's what baking is all about, but somehow that point is being lost as the information is passed along.

 

[Lt. Bob]

That's the tricky thing about understanding sticky-shed and baking. Ideally you use what you know to avoid sticky-shed completely for new recording, but if you have an older recording that needs to be rescued and transferred you have baking as a recovery solution. There's even a seller on eBay selling old "One-pass" tape that cautions the buyer to bake before using. That's a complete misunderstanding of the baking process. It's not really to make bad tape good again for new recording. It will never be quite as sonically good as tape without sticky-shed and sticky-shed tape is harder on tape decks. By the time it's showing the obvious signs again it's already put a lot more wear on your heads and the rest of the transport than good tape would. So you bake a tape once to recover music on it and then you toss it. That's what baking is all about, but somehow that point is being lost as the information is passed along.

cool ........ good to know.

 

[miroslav]

So you bake a tape once to recover music on it and then you toss it. That's what baking is all about, but somehow that point is being lost as the information is passed along.

Yes, on some websites, there's info passed around that suggests you can just keep baking the tapes and it implies that once baked again, they are as good as can be for that 1-2 month time period.

The odds of me ever reaching for an SSS tape are pretty slim. I have plenty of non-SSS tapes, and there's nothing on those SSS tapes that I need to transfer/keep. I just thought that as an absolute last resort....at some point...if I had nothing but and SSS reel and needed to record...then baking/recording/transferring would be the only option, but it really is a VERY long shot.

The one thing I have been wanting to do with some of the SSS tape, is to spool it off the reels and use it in some kind of photo shot...maybe for an album cover or something.
I already have a large garbage bag full of a couple of 1/2" reels worth of tape that had SSS. I spooled them off about 2 years ago and the bag is out in my shed. Now I have the 6 reels of 2"....so I think it will end up being part of some photo shot. Something like those play-lands they have at the burger joints for kids...the ones with all the sea of small balls that kids can jump into....but only using several reels of tape. Maybe fill up a room with all the loose tape, just cover everything with it...


I wonder how that Nu Finish experiment is coming along......?

 

[breitung1]

Request clarification:

To Clarify:

Lt. Bob basically has it right.

I'll be talking about the process I use at the American Institute for Conservation conference during the second week of May in Albuquerque if anyone is in the area. To add some legitimacy to the request, you'll find that i gave a similar talk at the Infrared and Raman Users Group conference a few weeks ago in Europe. The title, etc. is listed here. Session 7, 12:10 PM.
ub (dot) edu (forward slash) IRUG10BCN (forward slash) PROGRAM (dot) pdf

A few comments:
- I'm interested in analyzing the tapes that users (you) have identified as degraded as well as the Library - hence, my list looking very similar to yours.

- The LC collection is of recorded tapes. It is not possible to identify the make/model of the tape from the box of an opened tape. - hence, using the Library's current collection for anything but determining whether my methods for identifying degradation work on the Library's collection, is not possible. My goal is to produce a database of data that can be accessed via the web and used free of charge to non-destructively identify degraded tape before playing on *any* collection. An added benefit will be to identify chemical markers (either general or make/model specific) that can be used to understand and advise treatment, identification, and storage strategies.

 

[miroslav]

Thanks for some of the clarification.

You have to understand that Internet forums get hit with tons of spam & scam...so few people will take at face-value someone's legitimacy off of their single post that they make on a first time visit, containing no specific POC info or official details (website links, etc).

So it's nothing personal.

Still not sure how many folks will part with any of their unopened/unused reels just based on someone asking for them...but maybe you can take it one step further and actually post some LOC contact info and address where to send it at the LOC...and at least that will legitimize your request completely for anyone still skeptical.

I think you might get folks to send you *known* SSS tapes that they have already attempted to use and thus discovered the SSS...but again, reels have become expensive and NOS reels almost extinct...so we all tend to cling to what we have.
That said...I'm sure if the LOC offered some kind of reimbursement for tapes sent, people might be more willing to part with some of their stock.

Good luck with your study!

 

[Tim Gillett]

I really hadn't thought of the money aspect. If I had any unopened reels I sure wouldn't give them away.

No and neither would I, and I doubt the researcher would expect anyone to part with them except for market value.

Cheers Tim

 

[Tim Gillett]

Tim...you just trying to stir something up or do you actually have a point to make?

It's now obvious to all the guy was genuine from the beginning. You should have done your homework and found that out yourself. A simple search was all that was needed. I did the search. Why didnt you? You're supposed to be a moderator. Who moderates you?

As usual, no apologies. Twist it around and blame somebody else. You've been well trained.

 

[miroslav]

Sorry...it's not my "homework" to scour the Internet off of someone's forum handle just to see if I can make a legit connection.
It's up to the poster to provide their legitimacy if it's important to the topic... especially when coming into a forum as a new member, with a single post...and requesting that people send him their tapes.

Don't be such a contrarian just to keep stirring the pot........

 

[moresound]

Also - if you know of other sources (besides ebay, etc.) or places I should post this request, please let me know.

Thank you kindly -

You can try these guys - Gearslutz.com

 

[bdenton]

Well, you guys sure make the community look good...

Did the guy say he wanted them for free? In fact, he said, "if you know of other sources (besides ebay, etc.)" Last time I looked, most folks on eBay weren't there to give stuff away.

But hey, who cares about those early Les Paul tapes that could well be a part of the LOC collection? Who wants to listen to that shit anyway?

I see the usual suspects are continuing to drive this place downhill...

 

[miroslav]

Well, he didn't exactly offer to pay either...did he?
I said a couple of times that if the LOC was willing to reimburse people for the going prices of NOS tapes...some folks might consider it.

But what I really would like to know is how many tapes all of you who are "for" the OP's proposition are planning to send him...???

Oh...and what's the "early Les Paul tapes" got anything to do with it???
If they are on SSS tape...this study isn't going to "save them" (though the real early tapes actually didn't exhibit SSS).

I love how folks like to pop into a thread....JUST to give the pot another stir.....

 

[bdenton]

Well, he didn't exactly offer to pay either...did he?
I said a couple of times that if the LOC was willing to reimburse people for the going prices of NOS tapes...some folks might consider it.

But what I really would like to know is how many tapes all of you who are "for" the OP's proposition are planning to send him...???

Oh...and what's the "early Les Paul tapes" got anything to do with it???
If they are on SSS tape...this study isn't going to "save them" (though the real early tapes actually didn't exhibit SSS).

I love how folks like to pop into a thread....JUST to give the pot another stir.....

The OP came in and made a polite and businesslike request, which included a reference that made it very easy to check out his bona fides. There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to treat him the way some here treated him. That's just a matter of common courtesy.

The only analog tapes I have are some old cassettes from my PortaStudio days, but if I did have any tapes that met the specifications I would be happy to donate a reel or two.

I have no idea whether or not the LOC has any of Les Paul's tapes, or what vintage they are if they do. But he is a well-known pioneer of multi-track recording, and I would be surprised if the LOC did not have some of his tapes in their collection. And some of the knowledge gained from this research could well result in the preservation of tapes in archival facilities other than the LOC.

I didn't just "pop in"...I've been a member here since 2001, and I have learned a lot from some of the people here. And while I don't now visit as often as I sometimes have, I do try to come here from time to time to try to pass along what I have learned from others. When I do come here, I simply hit the "New Posts" and read anything that catches my eye.

In this instance I saw a reasonable request, and a lot of really "jag off" replies. Which is exactly what everyone else who visits this thread will see. Including those who pay the bills here...

 

[sweetbeats]

I'm really, really disappointed by the tone of some of the posts in this thread.

Nobody says anybody has to take something at face value but that doesn't mean its necessary to be a complete jerk about it.

I feel like some are just shooting their wad before actually reading through somebody's post (and I'm specifically referencing the OP's original post).

Yep...its anybody's right to read what he/she wants and write what he/she wants, but there was a time that the sort of flaming posts I've seen in this (and other) thread just wouldn't have hit this forum.

Lame.

To the OP, not that it matters to you, but in case it does, I know I'M sorry for some of the inhospitable responses.

 

[miroslav]

The OP came in and made a polite and businesslike request, which included a reference that made it very easy to check out his bona fides. There is absolutely no excuse for anyone to treat him the way some here treated him. That's just a matter of common courtesy....

We get a lot of "business" type requests/post from 1st time posters, and most ARE treated with skepticism by the majority of the membership. Heck...I've seen members go absolutely bonkers over suspected spam on these forums many times.
I don't think anyone in this thread was over the top or being mean to the OP....just cautious (not counting some of the political BS that was removed).

Not sure what "jag off" replies anyone made...other than Tim coming in and calling some people "idiots"...which certainly set a very "friendly" tone right off.
Most of the replies suggested that the OP verify his request with something more than a "please send me tapes" type of post. He finally did come back, and I think he was treated quite fairly and made aware that we do get a lot of spam & scam on forums...so it was nothing personal (or did you miss that part?).

I think he would come off much more credibly from the git-go if he actually posted his name and gave a LOC address and contact info if indeed all of this was for an *official study by the LOC*...don't you think so?
Which IMHO would have been a true "business like" request.