Two mics I wish somebody would make.

Innovations

Innovations

New member
Both are takes on a PZM.

First, The Disk Mic.

This would be a large plexiglass disk with a small high quality capsule (most likely electret) mounted in the center. It would be a boundary mic with the plexi disk acting as the boundary. In addition the disk would act to reflect sound back at the musician, possibly eliminating the need for monitors in many situations and thus helping reduce feedback and bleed as a result. This could be used for backup singers and also a good choice for brass, which tend to blow sound everwhere except back at the musician.

Second, The Piano Mic.

This would be a long black cloth belt, perhaps with some elastic to keep it snug. Along the back side of the belt would be three quality capsules (again most likely electret) all mixing into one output. Strap the belt around the lid of the piano and tada! The piano is miced across the whole range of keys with a single channel on the board. Moreover it could be used both for permanent installation (since the lid can be closed and a cover put on with the mic still attached) yet also easily tossed into a kit for remote recording (quick setup with no need for a mic stand). It also would solve the question of how do you install a PZM on the bottom of the lid of a piano without marring the finish.

Discuss...are they workable? Marketable?
 
Innovations said:
Both are takes on a PZM.

First, The Disk Mic.

This would be a large plexiglass disk with a small high quality capsule (most likely electret) mounted in the center. It would be a boundary mic with the plexi disk acting as the boundary. In addition the disk would act to reflect sound back at the musician, possibly eliminating the need for monitors in many situations and thus helping reduce feedback and bleed as a result. This could be used for backup singers and also a good choice for brass, which tend to blow sound everwhere except back at the musician.
Click to expand...

That's really just a PZM, or any small electret mic, mounted on a piece of plexi. The question is, how much value is there in the mic company fabbing the plexi? And how large, how expensive to ship, etc. when you can just go into a local glass shop and have them cut whatever you want for cheap.

It's also kinda like the usual approach to a Jecklin disc, minus the fleece, and with the capsule right on the plexi rather than 8cm away. I don't think anybody sells a cheap Jecklin, probably for the simple reason that to make something commercially acceptable, the price goes up a lot higher than the DIY project.



Second, The Piano Mic.

This would be a long black cloth belt, perhaps with some elastic to keep it snug. Along the back side of the belt would be three quality capsules (again most likely electret) all mixing into one output. Strap the belt around the lid of the piano and tada! The piano is miced across the whole range of keys with a single channel on the board. Moreover it could be used both for permanent installation (since the lid can be closed and a cover put on with the mic still attached) yet also easily tossed into a kit for remote recording (quick setup with no need for a mic stand). It also would solve the question of how do you install a PZM on the bottom of the lid of a piano without marring the finish.
Click to expand...

DPA do something like that with a long stereo bar. I had one guy tell me he fabbed his own mount with an adjustable shower curtain rod. That said, the elastic idea is interesting. With three capsules and a single output, you would lose control of the mix, which could be a problem according to the stick position of the lid.

As for mounting a PZM, gaff tape!
 
mshilarious said:
That's really just a PZM, or any small electret mic, mounted on a piece of plexi. The question is, how much value is there in the mic company fabbing the plexi? And how large, how expensive to ship, etc. when you can just go into a local glass shop and have them cut whatever you want for cheap.

It's also kinda like the usual approach to a Jecklin disc, minus the fleece, and with the capsule right on the plexi rather than 8cm away. I don't think anybody sells a cheap Jecklin, probably for the simple reason that to make something commercially acceptable, the price goes up a lot higher than the DIY project.
Click to expand...
Well, sometimes I would rather not have to build the thing myself, and have it look professional rather than kluged together. The answers to a nicer way than gaff tape to mount the microphone to the plexi and the plexi to the mic stand, handle the cords, etc. are worth some money.

DPA do something like that with a long stereo bar. I had one guy tell me he fabbed his own mount with an adjustable shower curtain rod. That said, the elastic idea is interesting. With three capsules and a single output, you would lose control of the mix, which could be a problem according to the stick position of the lid.

As for mounting a PZM, gaff tape!
Click to expand...
The shower curtain bar would have been across the box, not against the lid. The DPA kit is just under a thousand dollars. As for the three into one idea I guess you could have each capsule with its own output but only requiring one channel on the mixer would be a real benefit in remote recording and live sound. The loss of high end when the lid was lifted high could be made up with eq just as easily as having to adjust the volume of three separate channels. Finally I would just love to see the face on the music director when I put a big piece of gaff tape on the underside of the grand piano lid. (Not to mention what would happen if it let loose during the performance!)
 
Innovations said:
Finally I would just love to see the face on the music director when I put a big piece of gaff tape on the underside of the grand piano lid. (Not to mention what would happen if it let loose during the performance!)
Click to expand...
Yes, gaffer's tape will sometimes fall off if the mic is heavy; that's why I always recommend putting some staples in as well. :rolleyes:
 
Could you build proof-of-concept implementations of this?

Being able to create these cheaply is an important first step before marketing it.

That being said, these sound like cool ideas, and I'd like to see pictures if you can get them made.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Could you build proof-of-concept implementations of this?

Being able to create these cheaply is an important first step before marketing it.

That being said, these sound like cool ideas, and I'd like to see pictures if you can get them made.
Click to expand...

Actually, I'm not too bad as a seamstress :o
 
I figure for the piano mics you could run all 3 through a multi-stranded cable and terminate each one with its own XLR connector. Then you would have control over the mix.
 
PhilGood said:
I figure for the piano mics you could run all 3 through a multi-stranded cable and terminate each one with its own XLR connector. Then you would have control over the mix.
Click to expand...

The wire from the second to the third one could just be a normal mic cable.
 
I figure you take about 6' of nonflexible, durable fabric, something like you'd use for a bag strap or something. About 2" wide. You sew a short length of the same material on top of that, every 1', which creates a little pouch you can use to slide lapel-sized capsules into. Sew straps of thinner elastic, say 1/4" wide, 1" long, the opposite direction every foot, offset 6" from the capsule pouches. Those are for routing cables.

Then you sew an appropriate-length band of elastic that is flexible enough to accommodate large grands and small baby grands, and maybe even an upright lid (although that is a sucky way to mic an upright), and form a loop with the mic-holding strap.

Et voila, you have a totally configurable piano mic strap! :cool:

Next time Mom goes to the fabric store, I'll have her have a look. I don't have a big fabric store near me, just specialty quilt shops. I can sew up a prototype pretty quick once I get the material.

I have a quilt on display right now at the local quilter's guild annual show, link here (I am not a guild member):

http://www.roanokeisland.com/index.php?name=visArtsSeries

My quilt is probably in the back corner, underneath a couple other quilts, but it's there! :p
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Could you build proof-of-concept implementations of this?

Being able to create these cheaply is an important first step before marketing it.

That being said, these sound like cool ideas, and I'd like to see pictures if you can get them made.
Click to expand...
I said I wished somebody would make them, not that I was going to try to undertake them myself.

Neither of these require anything in terms of technology, simply in terms of packaging.
 
mshilarious said:
I figure you take about 6' of nonflexible, durable fabric, something like you'd use for a bag strap or something. About 2" wide. You sew a short length of the same material on top of that, every 1', which creates a little pouch you can use to slide lapel-sized capsules into. Sew straps of thinner elastic, say 1/4" wide, 1" long, the opposite direction every foot, offset 6" from the capsule pouches. Those are for routing cables.

Then you sew an appropriate-length band of elastic that is flexible enough to accommodate large grands and small baby grands, and maybe even an upright lid (although that is a sucky way to mic an upright), and form a loop with the mic-holding strap.

Et voila, you have a totally configurable piano mic strap! :cool:
Click to expand...
The material you are talking about is belt webbing. You describe very close to what I was thinking. The only difference is that I was thinking you would accompdate different sized lids using a buckle and holes, just like a pants belt, or use velcro. You would still include a short elastic length just to keep it constantly snug.

The thing I like about the piano mic idea is that it has uses both for permanent setups as well as remote recording
 
PhilGood said:
I figure for the piano mics you could run all 3 through a multi-stranded cable and terminate each one with its own XLR connector. Then you would have control over the mix.
Click to expand...
I still like the option of only needing one channel on the board, particularly when using it for remote setups. Maybe they could build it with three xlr's and then bundle in a 3-into-1 adaptor for cases when you need to preserve channels.
 
Innovations said:
I still like the option of only needing one channel on the board, particularly when using it for remote setups. Maybe they could build it with three xlr's and then bundle in a 3-into-1 adaptor for cases when you need to preserve channels.
Click to expand...

Sounds like too much potential for phase cancellations that you can't undo if you don't have the three original tracks. Not to mention proximity effect. Plus who plays a real piano these days anyway? Where's the market?
 
I took a Radio Shack PZM, took the element off the metal backing plate and put in the middle of a 2'x2' piece of plexiglass. I also swapped the capacitor and changed it to take a 9v battery. I also put a balanced XLR on the end. Stuck it up on the wall in our jam room and the recordings where great.
 
Shadow_7 said:
Sounds like too much potential for phase cancellations that you can't undo if you don't have the three original tracks. Not to mention proximity effect. Plus who plays a real piano these days anyway? Where's the market?
Click to expand...
And what is all this about special mics for kick and toms? Nobody plays real drums anymore either!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top