Turd-Polishing: Telecaster Style

  • Thread starter Thread starter TelePaul
  • Start date Start date
OK, I don't know, so I'm just throwing this out as a possibility? Are the Stew Macs the exact ones you've got, or just similar and you're showing them as an example? Is it possible that you've got saddles that are supposed to fit an MIA bridge, or an Asian import bridge, and those won't fit a MIM bridge? Like I said, I'm just suggesting a possibility. That bridge is original to the guitar, right? And you bought it new, so ther's no chance of it being an aftermarket bridge? I'm not even remotely a guitar tech-type, but that just looks too far off to be a nut spacing problem. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
 
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It almost looks like the low E saddle is so far back that it's hitting the screw at the bottom, which is shoving the low E saddle to the right - which is pushing all of the other saddles over, especially the high E.

Not sure how you would correct that without either moving the low E saddle forward (and screwing up the intonation) to clear the screw....or moving the screw placement somehow...or adjusting the whole bridge placement.
 
notCardio said:
OK, I don't know, so I'm just throwing this out as a possibility? Are the Stew Macs the exact ones you've got, or just similar and you're showing them as an example? Is it possible that you've got saddles that are supposed to fit an MIA bridge, or an Asian import bridge, and those won't fit a MIM bridge? Like I said, I'm just suggesting a possibility. That bridge is original to the guitar, right? And you bought it new, so ther's no chance of it being an aftermarket bridge? I'm not even remotely a guitar tech-type, but that just looks too far off to be a nut spacing problem. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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Hey man. Those ones on Stew Mac are the exact ones I bought. It's possible I have saddles made to fit a MIA bridge, but I didn't know there was any difference. Original bridge too.

I did a little bit of Googling and it seems my initial concern about the righter-most saddle being flush with the wall of the bridge may be ill-founded. I don't want to confuse this concern with other issues people have raised about the intonation saddles, but check out some of these:

The guitar as it looks straight from the factory; note the gap between the Low E saddle and the left bridge wall, and the fact that the High E saddle is flush with the right bridge wall.

http://www.fender.com/uk/products/search.php?partno=0135300367

Again:

http://www.stringsdirect.co.uk/images/0001/5446/a6.jpg

And again:

http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/images/large/TB-0033-002.jpg

It seems the holes at the base of the vintage bridge are drilled off-centre as standard?
http://www.fender.com/uk/products/search.php?partno=0135300367
 
Couple of things TP,

Those saddles do look a bit to wide for the bridge plate. It looks like the top E is being pulled over as a result of the saddles being too wide, that may be an illusion though. From memory the MIM Hwy series are designed for fender vintage parts not sure what you have there. No need to buy off of Stew Mac give me a PM and I'll be able to point you to suppliers here in the UK or Ireland that will save your time and money.;)

What I was getting at with the neck alignment was discussed in a thread over at TDPRI not so long ago. Have a read and see if it makes any sense.

Does 32-20 still have the original saddles for you to post a comparison shot of? Essentially though these are two related but independent issues. You need to tackle them separately starting with the neck alignment then the string should sit where it needs to on the neck. You may need to chuck the original saddles back on to check the neck alignment.
 
muttley600 said:
Couple of things TP,

Those saddles do look a bit to wide for the bridge plate. It looks like the top E is being pulled over as a result of the saddles being too wide, that may be an illusion though. From memory the MIM Hwy series are designed for fender vintage parts not sure what you have there. No need to buy off of Stew Mac give me a PM and I'll be able to point you to suppliers here in the UK or Ireland that will save your time and money.;)

What I was getting at with the neck alignment was discussed in a thread over at TDPRI not so long ago. Have a read and see if it makes any sense.

Does 32-20 still have the original saddles for you to post a comparison shot of? Essentially though these are two related but independent issues. You need to tackle them separately starting with the neck alignment then the string should sit where it needs to on the neck. You may need to chuck the original saddles back on to check the neck alignment.
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Thanks man, yeah I still have the vintage saddles - dunno how 32-20 will feel about setting up again! So you're saying there is a neck-alignment issue?
 
I have been in this situation before and I have learned one thing:

An all original used mexican made strat or tele is a $150 guitar.

An upgraded used mexican strat or tele with better pickups, a cold rolled steel trem block, the best tuners, very good saddles, better quality tone and volume pots, and $100 worth of new pickups...is STILL a $150 guitar.
Remember your first loss is your best loss because you never come out "throwing good money after bad" so to speak.
Take whatever loss or profit you can and move it on down the line...as is.. and buy something you like.

My 2 cents.
 
TelePaul said:
Thanks man, yeah I still have the vintage saddles - dunno how 32-20 will feel about setting up again! So you're saying there is a neck-alignment issue?
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I really don't know TP I'm just throwing things out there for you to explore based on my experience and the info you have given. If it were me I'd do this.

Take off the strings and put the old saddles back on. Restring and compare the string spacing to those you have posted here. My guess is they would be slightly less. It looks like you have a 10.8mm spacing set on there and the vintage are 10.5mm. Just a guess though.

Having done that I would get a long straight edge and find out exactly where the centre line on the neck points in relation to the bridge and saddles of choice. Any mis-alignment needs to be taken care of by loosening the necK plate screws and resetting the neck pocket position. Sometimes you can do that without too much bother some times you may need a small shim, some times it needs plugging and re drilling. I would guess yours would be the first or second scenario.

The resulting setup shouldn't take that long as it would just be setting intonation and action assuming any truss rod and fret dressing was done in the first instance. Once all that is done and it is playing nice you can set the pickup height etc.
 
muttley600 said:
I really don't know TP I'm just throwing things out there for you to explore based on my experience and the info you have given. If it were me I'd do this.

Take off the strings and put the old saddles back on. Restring and compare the string spacing to those you have posted here. My guess is they would be slightly less. It looks like you have a 10.8mm spacing set on there and the vintage are 10.5mm. Just a guess though.

Having done that I would get a long straight edge and find out exactly where the centre line on the neck points in relation to the bridge and saddles of choice. Any mis-alignment needs to be taken care of by loosening the necK plate screws and resetting the neck pocket position. Sometimes you can do that without too much bother some times you may need a small shim, some times it needs plugging and re drilling. I would guess yours would be the first or second scenario.

The resulting setup shouldn't take that long as it would just be setting intonation and action assuming any truss rod and fret dressing was done in the first instance. Once all that is done and it is playing nice you can set the pickup height etc.
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Thanks Mutt, I know you can't say for certain without having the guitar in front of you, and I appreciate the effort you're going to to troubleshoot this for me.

As it stands, I can't do anything about the nut and to be honest, I wouldn't be comfortable playing with the neck alignment. I'll leave both of these to a luthier, if it transpires that this is where the problem lies.

What I can do is assess the impact of vintage saddles. While the string-spacing issue has always been present, it won't do me any harm to fit a new set of saddles, even if it's just to eliminate this as a possible cause. With that in mind, if you could PM me the names of some of those dealers you mentioned, that would be great. Just to confirm, I'm looking for 10.5mm saddles, right?
 
Telepaul,

If you try to do the neck alignment as Muttley suggested and don't get it right, it will be the same job for the luthier as if you hadn't played with it. That assumes you don't try #3 on your own.
 
TelePaul said:
Thanks Mutt, I know you can't say for certain without having the guitar in front of you, and I appreciate the effort you're going to to troubleshoot this for me.

As it stands, I can't do anything about the nut and to be honest, I wouldn't be comfortable playing with the neck alignment. I'll leave both of these to a luthier, if it transpires that this is where the problem lies.

What I can do is assess the impact of vintage saddles. While the string-spacing issue has always been present, it won't do me any harm to fit a new set of saddles, even if it's just to eliminate this as a possible cause. With that in mind, if you could PM me the names of some of those dealers you mentioned, that would be great. Just to confirm, I'm looking for 10.5mm saddles, right?
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What happened to the ones you pulled when you replaced them? Why not just slip them back on or just eyeball them to get an idea of any differences.
 
muttley600 said:
What happened to the ones you pulled when you replaced them? Why not just slip them back on or just eyeball them to get an idea of any differences.
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They're manky, which is why I bought new ones in the first instance
 
jimistone said:
I have been in this situation before and I have learned one thing:

An all original used mexican made strat or tele is a $150 guitar.

An upgraded used mexican strat or tele with better pickups, a cold rolled steel trem block, the best tuners, very good saddles, better quality tone and volume pots, and $100 worth of new pickups...is STILL a $150 guitar.
Remember your first loss is your best loss because you never come out "throwing good money after bad" so to speak.
Take whatever loss or profit you can and move it on down the line...as is.. and buy something you like.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...

In a lot of ways, jimistone is dead on.

It seems like the only reason to hold on to this guitar would be if it felt good when playing, and with the string spacing issue unresolved it would be hard to say.

Buying a good guitar from the get-go is key, but we've all made purchases that didn't quite live up to the expectations we had.

I have a bastard-caster Strat. It's not worth the total value of parts, but it sounds great and works every time. I'm getting ready to do the same with my Tele (mid-80's MIJ Squier). It has always felt comfortable, but the pickups just don't deliver what I want.

If you really dig the guitar, do the work with the understanding that you'll never get your money back out of it.
 
I was in the same situation a couple years back. I had picked up a nashville tele when they were still affordable ($400). It was a serviceable and reliable guitar, but it just didn't meet my expectations. I installed a brass 3-barrel bridge from stew mac and some american series tele pick ups in the neck and bridge positions. Then I had the frets leveled and nut adjusted by my local tech. Aterwards, it was a much better playing and better sounding guitar. I eventually added a hipshot b-bender so that I wouldn't have to take my american nashville bender to gigs and such. So I took a $400 guitar, added $200 in parts + labor and then another $130 to turn it into a bender. It's still definately a cut below my american nashville, but I can say that I really have no issues with the guitar anymore.

If I had to do it over again, I'm not sure if I'd go that same path or not. It's kind of hard at that price point because you basically get what you get. With the money spent on upgrading, you end up with a better guitar...but usually not as good as a better made instrument. However, when all is said and done, as long as you're not spending the near the same amount of money as you would originally have for getting a better made instument in the first place, it can be a good option. I guess it all depends on what you're personal break even point is once everything is considered as a whole.
 
Thanks for that guys, and cheers Jimi, you're probably dead right in many respects. I do kinda feel that this might be a lesson I have to learn for myself. I'd also like some assurance that if something happened to one of my prized guitars that there's a tech in the vicinity who I can trust.

I'd just like to get the guitar playing well - my biggest issue right now is that the guitar doesn't feel right, and I think this is solely down to the badly cut nut. I'm not too fussed about how it sounds, because there are quite a number of variables to take into account before ordaining a tone 'good', but I've heard great things about Bare Knuckle.

So i'm going to move this on if possible - I'll hopefully be ordering the pickups next week and would like some new saddles, even just to eliminate the possibility of misalignment at the bridge. How do these look as replacements? Closer than the String Saver barrels I have on in the pic?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Telecaster-Tele-...QptZUK_Guitar_Accessories?hash=item1e5a21015c
 
TelePaul said:
Thanks for that guys, and cheers Jimi, you're probably dead right in many respects. I do kinda feel that this might be a lesson I have to learn for myself. I'd also like some assurance that if something happened to one of my prized guitars that there's a tech in the vicinity who I can trust.

I'd just like to get the guitar playing well - my biggest issue right now is that the guitar doesn't feel right, and I think this is solely down to the badly cut nut. I'm not too fussed about how it sounds, because there are quite a number of variables to take into account before ordaining a tone 'good', but I've heard great things about Bare Knuckle.

So i'm going to move this on if possible - I'll hopefully be ordering the pickups next week and would like some new saddles, even just to eliminate the possibility of misalignment at the bridge. How do these look as replacements? Closer than the String Saver barrels I have on in the pic?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Telecaster-Tele-...QptZUK_Guitar_Accessories?hash=item1e5a21015c
Click to expand...

The only way you can asses whether they are right is to work out what the string spacing was on the original. You can do thsat by putting the original ones back on. It doesn't matter if they are manky because you are not keeping them.

Once you know what the original string spacing is go get something the same.

Failing that send me details of the guitars year of construction, model number and finish and I'll tell you what and where to get set that will be the right size.

Incidentally there is no reason why this cannot easy be turned into a decent playable and enjoyable instrument. One thing I would say is keep anything you swap out as when and if you do trade in you will want to strip out the upgrades before hand.
 
TelePaul said:
Thanks for that guys, and cheers Jimi, you're probably dead right in many respects. I do kinda feel that this might be a lesson I have to learn for myself. I'd also like some assurance that if something happened to one of my prized guitars that there's a tech in the vicinity who I can trust.

I'd just like to get the guitar playing well
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That's cool. I have polished some turds in terms of putting money into cheaper guitars myself. I had fun doing it and experimented in ways that I would not experiment on a more expensive guitar.
There's nothing wrong with fixing up a MIM tele and you can get good results. I was just saying that it's worth as much now as it will be after you fix it up and a better route ...money wise...might be to sell it and buy one that already feels right to you.
I've lost money on every fixer upper I've ever sold.
 
muttley600 said:
The only way you can asses whether they are right is to work out what the string spacing was on the original. You can do thsat by putting the original ones back on. It doesn't matter if they are manky because you are not keeping them.

Once you know what the original string spacing is go get something the same.

Failing that send me details of the guitars year of construction, model number and finish and I'll tell you what and where to get set that will be the right size.

Incidentally there is no reason why this cannot easy be turned into a decent playable and enjoyable instrument. One thing I would say is keep anything you swap out as when and if you do trade in you will want to strip out the upgrades before hand.
Click to expand...

Hey Mutt. I'm a bit confused. The saddles are of the American Vintage 6-Saddle configuration. I know this, but why can't I just go buy them from the shop you linked to above?
 
TelePaul said:
Hey Mutt. I'm a bit confused. The saddles are of the American Vintage 6-Saddle configuration. I know this, but why can't I just go buy them from the shop you linked to above?
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Because some sets are designed for a 52mm string spacing and some sets are designed for a 54mm spacing, some have 55mm. There are other string spacings that fender have used but those are the most common. I'm pretty much certain you need the 52mm but I can't be sure without more info.

You need to find out what your guitars intended string spacing is and fit a set that the same or narrower.
 
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