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dmbfan1981
New member
what should I know about a tube mic? I assume a tube mic will really warm up vocals, but does it connect the same way ( with an XLR with phantom power? ) is it usually a better sounding condenser? Thanks.
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Big Kenny
New member
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craigmorris74
New member
They use XLR, but generally no phantom. MOST cheaper condensers that retail for less than $1000 don't warm up anything, just impart strange peaks throughout the frequency range (often in the upper midrange which makes them sound harsh). In general, a $300 tube condenser will sound much worse than a $300 solid state condenser. (unless you know how to modify and replace the main components).
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cusebassman
Freakin' sweet
I bought a Rode K2 a couple weeks ago, and I'll say, it is still a bright microphone, but with the right preamp, it will sound great. I had a Behringer Tube Utltragain, which made the thing sound extremely harsh on the high-end, but the M-Audio DMP-3 made all the difference. So, make sure you are using a decent, transparent preamp with it. The K2 is 700 new, so it does fall below 1000, but I think it definitely outperforms perhaps what the last post referenced, in 300 dollar tube mics.
As for warming up vocals, etc., I honestly don't think it makes a lot of difference. I went for the K2 because I like Rode mics, and it was the next step up in the line from what I have been using (the fact that it was tube-based didn't sway the decision one way or the other). I think I'm going to go check out the thread that was suggested above now... Just my two cents
As for warming up vocals, etc., I honestly don't think it makes a lot of difference. I went for the K2 because I like Rode mics, and it was the next step up in the line from what I have been using (the fact that it was tube-based didn't sway the decision one way or the other). I think I'm going to go check out the thread that was suggested above now... Just my two cents
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recordingpro
New member
What do you mean by the term "warm"?dmbfan1981 said:
pohaku
New member
dmbfan1981 said:
Tube mics all sound different -- just like other mics. You really have to try them to determine if they have the sound you want. Some are very "hi-fi" with just a trace of character imparted by the tube (eg, GT-44), others may have more tube influenced sound (eg, GT MD1a). Most require a separate power supply (that is sold with the mic), although at least one runs off of phantom power (e.g., AT-3060). You will still need an xlr connector to your preamp. Tube mics don't necessarily sound better than other condensers - some will and some won't - it depends what you are comparing them to. For example, I suspect I'd prefer a Neumann U87 to any of the low price tube mics out there. I personally prefer tube mics that permit you to replace or swap the tube yourself. Not all allow this (e.g., current model GT tube mics use a sub-miniature soldered-in tube).
That said, I do like the GT-44/AM-40 mic, which IMHO is a bargain for a very useful MD tube mic. There are lots of them out there used. I also like the older series GT mics (MD1, MD2, MD3 and their "a" model reissues). The AT-4060 is also very good. I have an older Gefell-Neumann tube mic (M582h) that I like a lot, but it is unlikely that you will run across one very easily - I sort of lucked into it. I have not used the MXL and other Chinese tube mics enough to offer an opinion, but others here on the forum no doubt have more experience with those. I think you really should choose by listening if at all possible. Good luck!
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XLR
______
Thank you for that. Sanity is good. Toobs are only warm in physical temperature.recordingpro said:
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Han
New member
I have three tube mics, a Neumann M149, an MXL V77 and an MXL V69M.
Only the V69M gets warm on the outside.
Only the V69M gets warm on the outside.
pikingrin
what is this?
How do you like your V69M? I haven't used mine yet, but by looking at the chart with the frequency responses on it, I'm a bit leary. That little peak around 10k scares me a little. I had a Behringer B-2 pro with a chart that (if I remember correctly) read about the same...Han said:
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craigmorris74
New member
Just curious, why would a 10K peak scare you?
pikingrin
what is this?
Pretty much because the Behri mic sucked. Granted, it was my first mic - on a VERY low budget - it seemed to be WAY too harsh and brittle sounding on everything that I tried. Even in a dead room, with a vocalist who sounded like (gag) that guy from creed. Deep voice still sounded like ass. I am going to fire it up tonight and see what she does, who knows, hopefully it'll be better.craigmorris74 said:
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Han
New member
pikingrin said:
The V69M is a tad colored, but in a pleasing way. The 10k peak is nothing to be worried about, the mic sounds clear and smooth on most sources.
The V77 is more neutral and it comes close to the expensive german sound, but unfortunately this mic is discontinued.
There's a misunderstanding about tube mics that should sound warmer than solid state mics. Tubes sound crystalclear and the sound of a microphone is the result of many components.
The famous Neumann U47 tube is a perfect combination of capsule, tube and transformer, swap the VF14 for a substitute and it sounds totally different.
Swap the PVC membrane for mylar and something the same happens.
But never forget that the indian is more important than the arrow. I've been listening to a recording that was sent to me by Bruce Swedien, a 128 kb/s MP3.
This was recorded on a hot summer night in august 1960 by Bruce with the Count Basie band.
And even this MP3 sounds better than most CD's from 2006. Bottom line: Bruce is a perfect indian.
(and the mics were perfect 46 years ago, not to mention the musicians)
Nate74
HR4FREBR
On the topic of "warmth," I think I remember a thread from ages ago (which I can't find now) where the quality of warmth as it pertained to electric guitar was beaten to death.
The executive summary went something like this: For a guitarist warmth means no harsh highs (5k and up), mild overdrive in the midrange (1k - 2.5k) with perhaps a bit of a boost and solid low end (<500Hz). In short, what my deluxe reverb is pretty good at.
Would a similar description fit for vocals? Or perhaps some variation on the frequencies in question?
The executive summary went something like this: For a guitarist warmth means no harsh highs (5k and up), mild overdrive in the midrange (1k - 2.5k) with perhaps a bit of a boost and solid low end (<500Hz). In short, what my deluxe reverb is pretty good at.
Would a similar description fit for vocals? Or perhaps some variation on the frequencies in question?
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cusebassman
Freakin' sweet
I suppose the frequency ranges might vary slightly, but I'd say I agree about the "warmth" sound... my Blues DeVille with a set of humbuckers gives that same tone, and I suppose I sometimes look for that in a vocal track, although usually I don't want either end (high or low) overly exagerated (esp. high... I suppose Id prefer 'warm' over 'harsh' or 'brittle')
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Big Kenny
New member
Warmth means nothing....
Seeker of Rock
Proud fucking American
Big Kenny said:
It means higher electric bills running the AC down here is So. Fla.
Nate74
HR4FREBR
Big Kenny said:
I'd like to agree, but sometimes you hear a track and that's the word that comes to mind.
Of course, the engineer in me wants to dig a lot deeper to understand what it is I'm hearing that envokes that description. I'd have to say it's as valid of a descripation as 'harsh', 'muddy' and 'ooky.' Well, maybe not 'ooky.'
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Minion
Blow Me !!!
Tube warmth (the sound not the Temp) that poeple talk about is generally 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion that sounds very pleaseing to the ear unlike the distortion created in solid state circuits...All audio circuits distorts the signal to a degree (usually a very ,very small degree) it is just that the distortion from Tube circuits actually sound good .....
This is what I understand as the "Tube Warmth" that audiophiles talk about....
This is what I understand as the "Tube Warmth" that audiophiles talk about....
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craigmorris74
New member
The great tube German tube pres had extremely high headroom and were very hi-fi. Not a lot of harmonic distortion going on. Makes me leery when starved plate devices talk about the only good thing about a tube is distortion.
However, some tube devices (and their solid state counterparts) can give a bit of a compressed sound that effects the sound in a way you might consider "warm". But what a dodgy word.
However, some tube devices (and their solid state counterparts) can give a bit of a compressed sound that effects the sound in a way you might consider "warm". But what a dodgy word.
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rippleFX
New member
2nd - yes. 3rd - no.
2nd order harmonic distortion can be "pleasing" to the ear, but 3rd order harmonic distortion is harsh and brittle.Minion said:Tube warmth (the sound not the Temp) that poeple talk about is generally 2nd and 3rd order harmonic distortion that sounds very pleaseing to the ear unlike the distortion created in solid state circuits...All audio circuits distorts the signal to a degree (usually a very ,very small degree) it is just that the distortion from Tube circuits actually sound good .....
This is what I understand as the "Tube Warmth" that audiophiles talk about....