Tube combo amp

[Kingofpain678]

I just listened to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqDMX--Fw5Y and I thought it sounded like a very usuable tube amp. Reminded me of a Supro...
the speaker is probably the rottenest component, there is something about a 12" for guitar that seems right... but that's easy to remedy if you'd even want to. It sounded quiet too.

Cool amp - I can't believe I like a Peavey amp! I've probably heard more horrible gear from Peavey than any other company but they always had some great products too like Black Widow speakers and Decca amps. I can't imagine their basses are too bad if Brian Bromberg uses one.

yeah i cant image the speaker could be very good but its ok though im thinking of getting a 1x12 celestion V30 and maybe building a whole new enclosure or something. either way that amp wont be staying stock for long.

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

It's a decent little amp and short money. Buy the fuckin' thing already.


lou

 

[ocnor]

It's a decent little amp and short money. Buy the fuckin' thing already.


lou

It's only a decent amp if you are strictly a blues player and prefer that harsh, muddy, bloated distortion tone [which seems to be popular around here]. If like me you prefer a 'rock' tone ala Scorpions, Judas priest, Velvet Revolver, etc... then the Royal 8 munches donkey extremities. It's being discontinued for a good reason.

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

It's only a decent amp if you are strictly a blues player and prefer that harsh, muddy, bloated distortion tone [which seems to be popular around here]. If like me you prefer a 'rock' tone ala Scorpions, Judas priest, Velvet Revolver, etc... then the Royal 8 munches donkey extremities. It's being discontinued for a good reason.

So instead of being a bitch about it how about suggesting an alternative for the same money?


lou

 

[ocnor]

So instead of being a bitch about it how about suggesting an alternative for the same money?


lou

So I'm a bitch because my opinion differs from yours and I prefer articulate rock tones to bloated blues tones? IMO there are no decent sounding low wattage amps in that price range. If I had to have a low wattage amp the only ones that I would consider would be these:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Blackstar-HT-Series-HT-5H-5W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-787010-i1434795.gc

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Marshall-Haze-MHZ15-15W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-581909-i1445504.gc

http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--LNYL5T112

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

So I'm a bitch because my opinion differs from yours...

Nope.

...and I prefer articulate rock tones to bloated blues tones?

Nope. Not that either.

IMO there are no decent sounding low wattage amps in that price range.

You're a bitch 'cause you didn't say that in the first place.


lou

 

[ocnor]

You're a bitch 'cause you didn't say that in the first place.


lou

Nobody was asking about that.

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Nobody was asking about that.

Good point.

Not a huge deal. Good amps aren't cheap. Some cheap amps are okay.


lou

 

[MajorTom]

All the little single ended 5 watt, low priced amps that I have tried and owned, with 1 exception, all sound pretty bad, and apparently suffer from the exact same problem - The output transformer they put in them is way too small and has excessive core saturation. It "chokes" the output from the tubes resulting in poor sound quality.... and I mean really poor. They sound like a really bad compressor. A too-small output tranny in a tube amp is analogous to putting a garden hose on a fire hydrant. Personally, I would much prefer most any SS amp.

The BF Fender Champ I used to have suffered from that, although to a much lesser extent.

The Blackheart Little Giant combo I had did not suffer from that at all, but IMO, it was kinda the opposite - it lacked the good kind of compression that you get with tubes, and it was high-endy; in a word I would call it harsh.

I replaced the output transformer on one of these amps, an Epiphone Galaxie 10 (predecessor of the Valve Jr.), with a Hammond (about $45.) and it was a night and day difference. At least twice as loud, with headroom, much clearer; it went from being a piece of junk toy to a giggable amp. Increasing the filter caps also helps in these amps, resulting in more defined bass. Heyboer and Mercury Magnetics also make replacement OT transformers for these small amps.

 

[MajorTom]

All the little single ended 5 watt, low priced amps that I have tried and owned, with 1 exception, all sound pretty bad, and apparently suffer from the exact same problem - The output transformer they put in them is way too small and has excessive core saturation. It "chokes" the output from the tubes resulting in poor sound quality.... and I mean really poor - extremely muddy. They sound like a really bad compressor. A too-small output tranny in a tube amp is analogous to putting a garden hose on a fire hydrant. Personally, I would much prefer most any SS amp.

The BF Fender Champ I used to have suffered from that, although to a much lesser extent.

The Blackheart Little Giant combo I had did not suffer from that at all, but IMO, it was kinda the opposite - it lacked the good kind of compression that you get with tubes, and it was high-endy; in a word I would call it harsh.

I replaced the output transformer on one of these amps, an Epiphone Galaxie 10 (predecessor of the Valve Jr.), with a Hammond (about $45.) and it was a night and day difference. At least twice as loud, with headroom, much clearer; it went from being a piece of junk toy to a giggable amp. Increasing the filter caps also helps in these amps, resulting in more defined bass. Heyboer and Mercury Magnetics also make replacement OT transformers for these small amps.

As far as the gain, 1 preamp + 1 power tube can provide a surprising amount of distortion, hard rock...maybe, but metal, no.

In my experience, an 8" speaker mic'd can sound huge. It will not, however, move enough air to provide much low end to your eardrums, they always sound small.

 

[ggunn]

All the little single ended 5 watt, low priced amps that I have tried and owned, with 1 exception, all sound pretty bad, and apparently suffer from the exact same problem - The output transformer they put in them is way too small and has excessive core saturation. It "chokes" the output from the tubes resulting in poor sound quality.... and I mean really poor - extremely muddy. They sound like a really bad compressor. A too-small output tranny in a tube amp is analogous to putting a garden hose on a fire hydrant. Personally, I would much prefer most any SS amp.

The BF Fender Champ I used to have suffered from that, although to a much lesser extent.

The Blackheart Little Giant combo I had did not suffer from that at all, but IMO, it was kinda the opposite - it lacked the good kind of compression that you get with tubes, and it was high-endy; in a word I would call it harsh.

I replaced the output transformer on one of these amps, an Epiphone Galaxie 10 (predecessor of the Valve Jr.), with a Hammond (about $45.) and it was a night and day difference. At least twice as loud, with headroom, much clearer; it went from being a piece of junk toy to a giggable amp. Increasing the filter caps also helps in these amps, resulting in more defined bass. Heyboer and Mercury Magnetics also make replacement OT transformers for these small amps.

As far as the gain, 1 preamp + 1 power tube can provide a surprising amount of distortion, hard rock...maybe, but metal, no.

In my experience, an 8" speaker mic'd can sound huge. It will not, however, move enough air to provide much low end to your eardrums, they always sound small.

I was with you on all that until I got to the line about the filter caps. The filter caps are there to remove 60Hz ripple voltage from the DC power supply to the tubes; how would increasing their (uF value? voltage rating?) change the definition in the low end?

 

[legionserial]

sounds good so far. i have another question though, is there anything wrong with using heavier overdrive or distortion pedals with tube amps?

im thinking some of the boss pedals, like the DS-1 or MT-2 or something similar

My personal opinion is that distortion pedals sound like ass compared to good amp distortion. If you're on the scope for a new amp, try to get one with the tone you like, rather than trying to botch it by adding a distortion pedal, which to my mind just adds tin, fizz and noise.

I've seen people, especially in metal, and for seemingly no good reason, throw a metal zone in front of an amp that already has more than enough distortion for the job. Last time a guy I know came over for a jam, he wanted to stick his metal zone in front of my 5150. I have no clue why. I told him that should he choose to proceed with his ridiculous endeavour, the metal gods would grow angry with his defilement of the (un)holy tone, and smite him with all their might.

An overdrive pedal on the other hand, in conjunction with a tube amp, can be pretty cool if your going to use it to give the tubes a little push, rather than just adding a layer of distortion.

 

[MajorTom]

I was with you on all that until I got to the line about the filter caps. The filter caps are there to remove 60Hz ripple voltage from the DC power supply to the tubes; how would increasing their (uF value? voltage rating?) change the definition in the low end?

When you look at it on an oscilliscope, the DC from a rectifier of a power supply looks like a dotted line; a short duration of current, followed by a short duration of no current. What a filter cap does is supply current to fill in the gaps. It charges up during the period of current, and then discharges in the "gap" to supply current. I guess it yields more headroom because more capacitance yields more current thru the "gaps", and therefore a higher amount of current on the average is available to the tubes. Since low freq's suck more current than high freq's, it would make sense that increasing the amount of current available to the output tubes would affect the low end.

Anyway, increase the capacitance value - "vintage" value is 22uf, "modern" value = 44 or higher. The vintage value gives a "looser" low end, less headroom. It is an accepted fact, its not just my opinion, or from my limited experience. The Vox AC30CC, and a few other amps have a switch on the back panel for that, I think on the Vox they call it a smoothing switch with the 2 positions labeled "modern" and "vintage". In one position it is 22uf, in the other it is 44. An amp tech told me that the single ended amps can benefit with a value even higher than the usual 44 or 47 uf, like 60 - 100. For push pull amp, I get the impression that anything over 44 or 47uf doesn't yield much if any difference. I added a 47 in parallel to the existing 22 in my Galaxie for a total of 69 - it did not make anywhere near as much change as the new O.T. transformer did, but it was a pretty significant increase in headroom and "tighter" low end.

 

[Lt. Bob]

all of you guys are pretty funny.

Look ...... there's a reason that there are so many different responses on what makes a good amp or guitar.
It's because different things work for different people.

For example, I personally loath modelers. I have specific reasons which I could articulate but for the purpose of this discussion let's just stipulate that Lt. Bob hates 'em .... and I have about a dozen of the damned things and the closest to being acceptable is my Rocktron but I don't really like it that much either.

But does anyone ever see me say "Modelers suck balls?"
Nope ..... and that's because I've seen quite a few guitarists get good results. They don't work for me but that's just for me. Everyone else has to make up their own minds.
I'm getting a Mesa Mark V and I've had numerous people at this board and several others come up with all kinds of reasons why that's a bad choice.
But I figure after 45 years of playing and 13,000 gigs I can probably make up my own mind.
Also ...... some of this comes down to knowing how to use your gear. If you turn an amp on and immediately go, "That sounds like ass" you're likely not gonna go thru much effort to figure out how to get a decent sound out of it.
But I've done recordings with my Epi Valve Jr. (admittedly a dark, kinda murky sounding little POS) where I've gotten nice clean "fendery" sounding rythms and nice sustainy leads out of it ...... usually with a pedal to help.
I didn't use it because I didn't have anything else .... I currently have 14 tube amps.... all nice ones with the exception of the Valve Jr ..... so I have a lot of choices. But the VJr sits there plugged in and I can usually get what I want out of it so why bother?

To say that you personally don't like something and the reasons why is a legitimate and useful answer.
To instead, declare something as a terrible amp because you, from your throne of know-it-allness, don't like it is just declaring yourself as arbiter of what's good.
Personally, anytime I see responses like that I just go on auto-ignore. It's like when Light declares anything that's not a basic tube amp is shit. He has his reasons for feeling that way but he's so biased in his opinion that it's worthless for a lot of younger players even though I know he knows his shit. I know the school of playing that he comes from where you plug straight into an amp and get the sounds that that amp can do better than anything else. I do that for some gigs. But I have other gigs where I need a buttload of pedals and channel switching etc.
Not every hat fits every head.
Amps are a personal thing and I don't think they lend themselves well to absolutist statements.

 

[cephus]

I have one of these and have recorded a bunch of things with it, including some crunch. I really like it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Peavey-Classic-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item25570acb84

 

[ranjam]

Remember waaaaaaaaaaaay back;

im thinking of picking up a peavey valveking royal 8 tube amp tomorrow. it has an 8 inch speaker and i think like 1 preamp tube and 1 power amp tube, but i have a few questions...

1). are there any disadvantages to miking up an 8" speaker vs. a 12" speaker?
2). with only one 12AX7 and one EL84 is that gonna give me enough gain for some hard rock and metal tones?

For the cheap price, he'll learn first hand, and not be pulled in all directions with conflicting opinions. Sure, there won't be much low end, and a lot of upper mids/highs and thin saturation, for reasons everyone else has already stated. But hey, it may sit in the mix well and give him the desired results. Is that so wrong? It won't be great, but it may be what he wants. He'll need a pedal for the extreme metal tones, so add that to the price. Still cheaper than a $700 Marshall Haze or a $1K Laney.
Hey, if you want some low-end, clean headroom, and better tonal options, look for a used Classic 20. In the same price range. I've recorded great tones with a Classic 30, but that's more $$$.

 

[Light]

Personally, anytime I see responses like that I just go on auto-ignore. It's like when Light declares anything that's not a basic tube amp is shit. He has his reasons for feeling that way but he's so biased in his opinion that it's worthless for a lot of younger players even though I know he knows his shit.

To be sure, I can be a bit hyperbolic at times, but if you look at my advice to the OP in this and other threads, I've told him that what I like probably isn't what he needs, and I advised him in another thread that what he is looking for would probably be best served by something on the lines of a Mesa, which is just about my least favorite amp out there.

On another note, I may keep my amp simple, but I've made a lot of little modifications, and the way I use it I don't get anything like the sounds you would probably expect, and I would contend that with my volume control and my boost, I have every bit as much tonal variety as you Mark V, I just don't have it at the push of a foot switch.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[cephus]

I believe in the psycho-acoustic effect. If you get a good deal on some amp, it may end up making you think it sounds better than it does. When you think it sounds good, you play better. When someone else hears you play through it, they say "damn! That shitty little amp sounds good!"

I have always liked trying to make junky guitars and amps sound "damn!" I am very critical of top shelf equipment. When i "check out" someone's boogie or marshall or whatever that they are really proud of, I think I am less than impartial. I've never heard anything to covet. I am proud of the tone that I get from my junky guitars and amps. Especially as recorded through my junky microphones and computer or when I'm playing at some lousy beer joint at the shitty end of town.

So, if the $99 peavey version of a valve jr looks cool and you think it would be fun to beat on for a while, go for it. I seriously doubt that it would record appreciably worse than if you spent $1k - unless boutique equipment gets you discernibly turgid. I have always been surprised at how good small speakers can sound, especially in the right room.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I believe in the psycho-acoustic effect. If you get a good deal on some amp, it may end up making you think it sounds better than it does. When you think it sounds good, you play better. When someone else hears you play through it, they say "damn! That shitty little amp sounds good!"

I have always liked trying to make junky guitars and amps sound "damn!" I am very critical of top shelf equipment. When i "check out" someone's boogie or marshall or whatever that they are really proud of, I think I am less than impartial. I've never heard anything to covet. I am proud of the tone that I get from my junky guitars and amps. Especially as recorded through my junky microphones and computer or when I'm playing at some lousy beer joint at the shitty end of town.

So, if the $99 peavey version of a valve jr looks cool and you think it would be fun to beat on for a while, go for it. I seriously doubt that it would record appreciably worse than if you spent $1k - unless boutique equipment gets you discernibly turgid. I have always been surprised at how good small speakers can sound, especially in the right room.

I'm right with you on this man.
I'm king of the cheap guitars ...... I've had hundreds and some worth 6 figures nowadays but currently I don't have anything special and actually several Epis my wife bought me for gifts and some home builts and a couple of Xaviers.
They all sound great when I get them set up right and I don't have to worry about some drunk crashing into them.

The main reason I want the mark V is versatility ..... it will make it easy for me to go from country twang to classic rock to metal at the flip of a switch or two.
As a full time hired-gun ....... I play wildly different styles of music, often in the same night so I want one rig that can do it all.
But I totally agree with you about the psycho-acoustic effect.
As a piano tuner I can say with certainty that you hear very differently from day to day depending on how you feel.
I have seen many reports of people in blind testing not being able to tell audiophile amps apart but when they knew which was which, then all of a sudden one would sound 'warmer' or whatever.
People don't like to believe they could imagine a difference because of this but hearing is really all in your brain so it's not unreasonable to think that the brain could process it differently if influenced by psychological preferences.

 

[Lt. Bob]

To be sure, I can be a bit hyperbolic at times, but if you look at my advice to the OP in this and other threads, I've told him that what I like probably isn't what he needs, and I advised him in another thread that what he is looking for would probably be best served by something on the lines of a Mesa, which is just about my least favorite amp out there.

On another note, I may keep my amp simple, but I've made a lot of little modifications, and the way I use it I don't get anything like the sounds you would probably expect, and I would contend that with my volume control and my boost, I have every bit as much tonal variety as you Mark V, I just don't have it at the push of a foot switch.

and hopefully I made it clear that I respect your knowledge and point of view.
I didn't phrase it as carefully as I could have but I want to be clear ..... I know that you know your shit.

And I do know that school of playing and have spent years at a time where I approached it the same way ..... guitar plugged direct into amp ...... that's it.
However, as I explained in the above post, as a hired gun doing wildly different genres every night, I've come to the decision that I need more variety out of my amp so I don't have to use different ones every night.
For instance ..... with the V I can run one channel at 90 watts and get super pristine clean with tons of head room and I can have another channel set for 10 watts and dimed out.
You can't do that with just the knobs on the guitar.
Of course, with pedals you can come close and I have a great pedal board.
But I can free up some space on my board for more modulation fx if I don't need my 4 different distortions. I don't want a bigger pedal board plus I want a rig that'll do everything with no pedals at all if I need to.
So for me that Mark V looks like the ticket.

But my main point for youngsters just getting into tube amps is kinda the same as cephus's ....... there's nothing wrong with getting a cheapy to learn on and if you don't just dismiss them as crap ..... then you can get something usable out of them with a little work usually.