Trying to decide on a new guitar amp... anyone hate Marshalls or have a better sugges

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pisces7378

pisces7378

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Hey,

I am in the market for a new amp. I have a friend that has a half stack 5150, and I have a friend that has a half stack Fender. I myself have had a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 (combo amp with 2x12" speakers.)

Now, I found the 5150 of my friend to be too "perfect". I mean, even the distortion sounded so electronic and full. It wasn't too thin or too heavey. The distortion just sounded like a Pantera or an Eddie Van Hallen record. (hense the endorcement).

Then the Fender sounded "too vintage." It was great for playing Rolling Stones or Eric Clapton songs from the 60's and 70's. But it lacked balls, and it was always feeding back (Whirrrrrr)

I have been looking at the Marshall TSL122 100 Watt, 3 channel valve combo. Here is a picture... http://www.marshallamps.com/images/products/tsl/tslc212.html

It is a combo amp with 2x12" speakers and has an optional 2x12" speak addition should I really want to have 4 speakers. I will not get the additional $400 speakers at first. I can't imagine a time when I will need 4 speakers. But I never know.

Anyway, the rig will cost me $1,500 new. What do you guys think? Anyone have any horror stories about Marshalls or have an other suggestions? I have basically just not found another amp that tickled my fancy the way this one has, but I am not married to it... yet!
 
Dude... I have never heard of those brands, models, or whatever they are.

Could you eleborate?
 
Why don't you snag yourself a used 50 watt 1x12" Marshall JCM 800 combo? It'll give you honest crunch, which is what it sounds like you're looking for (not as fizzy as the 5150, much nastier than a fender). You can get a model 4210 for $400-$500 used, in good condition.
 
Buy a Boogie, live happily ever after.

Marshalls do one thing EXTREMELY WELL

Boogies do everything extremely well

. . . or as a famous guitar player said to me one night - "If you've got their attention, you don't need a stack of Marshall gear"

foo
 
I'll second the boogies. Got a dual recto. It's freakin awesome.
 
boogies eat marshals for lunch, the gain in a double or triple rectifier is awesome, i like the double better than the triple but hey they both sound great. they are expensive though, you could check out the line 6 vetta combo it realy kicks major butt and i wouldnt buy anything before i tried it out they also make it in a 300 watt head that is just louder than all heck. anyway have fun shopping thats the enjoyable part and god bless flash
 
IMHO, I'd love to have a TSL. Partly because I already have a Boogie TriAxis and Quad. The TSL would add another tone to my arsenal. If I had to choose, I'd obviously keep the TriAxis or even the Quad, but that's based on taste.

It sounds like you like the tone and that's all that matters. The TSL is a good amp. As with any musical instrument, be sure you try the actual one you are purchasing before you buy it.
 
foo said:

Marshalls do one thing EXTREMELY WELL

Boogies do everything extremely well
Click to expand...

As the owner of a Boogie and a Marshall, I've gotta agree with Foo -almost. I think Boogies do every thing well, but what they don't do EXTREMELY well is that wide open power tube sound (ala Pete Townsend "Who's Next"). I find Boogies to be very pre amp oriented. You may find a Boogie to give you that "too perfect" experience that you had with the 5150.

I use my Boogie a lot more than I use my Marshall, but I'll never get rid of my Marshall. If you like that one, I say go for it. At 100 watts you may find you'll need an attenuator. Those Marshalls are loud!
 
fprod South

Great post man... Thanks. I just have some questions.

What is the Wattage thing all about anyway? Marshall has the TSL122 in a 100 Wat version and a 60Watt version. What does that "mean"? I mean I know what it mean obviously but what are the practical, in use issues that need to be addressed by having a higher or lower wattage amp?

I assume that a 100 Wat amp is simply louder than a 60 Watt amp, but since they have the same speakers wouldn't a 100 watt amp blow up the same speakers found in a 60 watt amp of the same shape and size?

Could you please go to the www.marshallamps.com website and take a look at the TSL122 100 Watt combo. It has a DI feature that I assume would let me direct in record with the sounds somehow by passing the amp. It also has some kind of reduction switch that says it makes the amp more over driven without being so loud. What is all this? As you can see I am no amp genius. I learned how to play on an Acoustic guitar and my mother bought me a peavey 2x12" spereo chorus amp about 10 years ago and that is all I have ever had. Never even thought about something new. Until now, and so I am having to decifer through a lot of jargon.

Any tips on wattage, DI features, reduction switches for overdriven sound with less volume.... or hell anything you think I might need to know would be greatly appreciated.

Please keep in mind that I use Shure SM-57s going into Focusrite ISA pre-amps going into a MOTU 24I/O into a Mac. And I record in a residential appartment complex. So window shattering noise is a bit of an issue. Really cool neighbors so it is not a HORRIBLE issue. But I want to have a good amp that will give great recording but will also sound like rolling thunder on stage as well.
 
I will third the post about Marshalls being a one-trick-pony. They do the "Marshall Sound" very well, but that's it.

I also agree that Boogies are great amp and much more versatile, but a little too .... "focused" sounding for me.

I hate to resort to tired hyperbole, but I think Riveras are the closest you can get to a Fender clean sound and Marshall crunch in one amp. I love mine.

http://www.rivera.com


Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
Re: fprod South

pisces7378 said:
And I record in a residential appartment complex. So window shattering noise is a bit of an issue. Really cool neighbors so it is not a HORRIBLE issue. But I want to have a good amp that will give great recording but will also sound like rolling thunder on stage as well.
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest a lower watt like 15-30, so you can really let it rip, and just mic it on stage, but you will NEVER ever EVER get a chance to crank a Marshall in an apartment. I vote for the TSL 100 Watt.

The 100 watt one has 4 power tubes, I think, if I remember, that switch they intalled cuts 2 tubes.

Blown speaker? The reason a Marshall sounds so good is because you are driving the speaker into oblivion.

More watts will give a cleaner sound at higher volumes.
 
I don't know the theory behind direct out recording. But I've tried it and don't think it sounds as good as micing the speakers so I don't do it.

It says it has a "Virtual Power Reduction Switch" that will bring it down to 25 watts. I'm guessing that's an attenuator - and 25 watts can still be pretty loud. I'd think too loud for apartment living. I don't know what happens if you run 2 attenuators.

Locus Larsen was right about watts (way I understand it anyway). Higher watt amps breakup at higher volumes. So you need to get unbelieveably loud to get a good overdriven sound with a 100 watt amp. Don't let the "gain" nob fool you, you gotta crank that "volume" nob or you'll be sounding like that 5150 only not as good.

He's also right about pulling some of the tubes - but check with the manufacturer. I think you're not supposed to do that with Boogies. I've done it with my Marshall and nothing has broken.

About blowing speakers - a 100 watt amp is only somewhat louder than a 50 watt amp. I suppose you're more likely to blow the speakers with the 100 watt amp, but the way watts are measured can be deceiving (100 watts is not twice as loud as 50 watts). I imagine the speakers it comes with can handle the amp.

You're probably fine with the 60 watt version for playing with most bands. It should be better for recording than the 100 watt. If you can pull a tube out (the 60 probably has 2 power tubes) and use the power reduction switch too then you'll be smokin' with a nice low wattage amp for recording - but I don't know that that's ok to do.

Good luck!
 
Do you really think that even with the switch thrown knocing the tubes down to two that the 100 Watt combo will be just too loud for appartment recording?

Ya see, I had that Peavey Stereo Churus 212 (2x12" combo amp) and it was running almost wide open at 9 1/2 and I could still barely make it over the drums, bass, second guitar, and vocals during rehersals. I don't remember how many watts it had. I don't remember anything about it's specs. I just remember that it had about 5,000 different un-usable chorus effects. I hated that amp, but it was my first "real" amp and it was all I had.

Now, 10 years later I am all grown up and have money of my own, and I want to buy a big fat overpiced, overdriven, overindulgant, rock machine. So the first image that popped into my head was Slash from Guns N Roses (not that I am trying to sound like that AT ALL!!!) running along the stage infront of about 30 Marshall Full stacks. I love the Marshall sound, and I love that this amp will definitely give me the push I need to not be swallowed up during live rehersals. But I am VERY worried about recording. I want the amp to sound huge and monsterous on the recordings, but I can't afford a disturbing the peace fine every two or three weeks.

So if you really KNOW a lot about amps and so fourth and their innerworking (i.e tubes, watts, voltage, DI, atinuators et cetera) then please tell me if you think the Marshall TSL122 100 Wat combo will give me all that I want but not bust out my windows during recording with the attinuator switch pressed in.

Thanks!
 
My 2 cents.. . .
If you know you like the sound of Marshalls, then the TSL
is probably going to be a good choice. However, you will likely need
a "Power Brake" (Marshall's attenuater) for recording.
I have a modified 100W (with a 50Wswitch) that I use
in my apartment. It's still too loud when I want a cranked
sound. I bought a Power Brake. . which was like $300 freakin'
dollars, but in the end I think it was a good investment.
It IS hard to justify a toy that does nothing but make you
quieter :- )

I think you should bring your guitar into a couple of stores and
compare the fender, Mesa and Marshall.

Now my dream amp (which is like $1870) is the Carr Slant 6.
I just can't seem to part with money. though (yet).
Good luck!
 
pisces7378 said:
Do you really think that even with the switch thrown knocing the tubes down to two that the 100 Watt combo will be just too loud for appartment recording?
Click to expand...

If you are going to crank the amp into power saturation, YES. Even a 25W amp is usually too loud for apartment recording. Generally, the only way to record a full open amp in an apartment is with an isolation cabinet.

Ya see, I had that Peavey Stereo Churus 212 (2x12" combo amp) and it was running almost wide open at 9 1/2 and I could still barely make it over the drums, bass, second guitar, and vocals during rehersals.
Click to expand...

50W is generally plenty at rehearsal. The biggest problem is not pointing the speakers at your own head. For example, you won't hear your own amp if it is sitting on the floor and you are standing in front of it (unless it is angled at your head). Placing a combo on a chair and angling it up towards your ears helps bundles.

Btw, if you can't hear yourself with a 50W amp at practice, your band is practicing too loud and you'd better be wearing ear protection to save your most valuable assets.

But I am VERY worried about recording. I want the amp to sound huge and monsterous on the recordings, but I can't afford a disturbing the peace fine every two or three weeks.

So if you really KNOW a lot about amps and so fourth and their innerworking (i.e tubes, watts, voltage, DI, atinuators et cetera) then please tell me if you think the Marshall TSL122 100 Wat combo will give me all that I want but not bust out my windows during recording with the attinuator switch pressed in.
Click to expand...

I'm not too sure how much the attenuator drops the volume, but it probably won't be enough. Also, I can't guarantee your tone will be the same with the attenuator enabled.

Like I said, recording with even a 25W amp at full blast is usually too much for an apartment. Decent apartment recording usually involves an iso booth or running an amp modeler direct.
 
Just a quick question...

If a 100 watt Marshall would be WAY TOO LOUD!!! inside, and a 50 watt Marshall would be perfectly fine and loud enough for rehersals, and we all know that amps get mic'ed at a show anyway... why in the hell does Marshall even make 100 Watt amps for? They seem pretty useless, if you guys are right.

Too loud for recording
50 Watts is enough for rehersal
A mic'ed 50 Watt at a show would be fine

Then what is the point of a 100 Watt amp?

Every single person on the Marshall site (Slash, Dave Mustane, Yingwe Malstein, Jeff Beck etc...) all go on and on about their bad ass 100 Watt amp. Well I know that Marshall wants them to say that because 100 watt amps are more expensive and they want people to buy them... but there has to be some reason for having a 100 Watt amp. What is it?

Oh yeah... and MITfusion boy... what is a Power Brake and where can I get one?

What do they do? Is it ok to use a "Power Brake" at the same time as the atinuator switch in Marshall amp? Do attimuator switches negatively effect the sound of an amp?
 
I have a 15 watt BluesJunior and could NEVER crank it in an apartment. But its loud enough for practice.

They make 100 watt amps because people at one point (and still do), wanted something bigger than what other people had.:D Seriouly.......I don't know. Its not a money making scheme.

A power brake take the signal (load) from the speak, reduces the volume in some scientific way, then outputs the proper load (8 ohm for example) to the speaker. The only part of the tone that should be affected would be that the speaker is not being driven as hard......which is half of your tone.......so, ya................


If you want an amp for recording in an apartment you should checkout what Lopp said. Get an isolation cab. Other wise you will have to get a seperate amp this is probably no more than 6 watts. Even then, you could be pushing the volume limits of where you live.
 
My first Boogie was 60 watts - I usually played a regular gig with the master on 2 1/2 or so.

I got it to 7 once - in the ice hockey stadium in Calgary.

All 100 watt amps are created equal - but some are more equal than others.


;)
 
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