Tracks outta time ???

[aciddart]

Musko, I use a USB soundcard, so there is always a small amount of latency, making my additional tracks out of sync on playback. But there is a simple fix. Just right click on the newly recorded block, then select "Wave Block Properties." In the box you will see "Time Offset." Adjust the smallest incremental number to a smaller value.

For instants: I use 30 fps SMPTE to measure time, so let's say I record a solo on another track at 00:02:37:26 of the song, but it's out of sync on playback. I then change the Time Offset for that wave block to 00:02:37:25, give a quick listen and if it's still off, I go back and take it down one more number to 00:02:37:24 -Bingo, it's in sync. Then I save that track into my multi-track session, and from then on it's always in time whether I dub more takes onto it, or whatever. It just moves the new wave block in time relation to the drum/rythym track to compensate for the latency. I've never had to change it by more than 3 numbers.

I didn't see any mention of this in the thread, so I thought I'd mention it.

Good luck! -A

 

[Musko]

Thanks for that, Acidart--but isn't there a way you can stop that from happening altogether? Doesn't it drive you bananas to have to adjust every time?

And thanks again, Manning. I'll get rid of all other PCI devices and let y'all know how it turns out.

dm

 

[manning1]

ok - musko. i'll wait for your report.
also - one point. are you sure you have everything set up right in the delta control panel ?
one thing i would do is contact pg tech support, they are very helpfull and also maybe maudio and make sure your delta is set up right in its control panel.
peace.

 

[aciddart]

Musko, funny you should mention that... about bananas ... because as soon as I posted that I had this mini revelation: Just because that's what I've been doing doesn't mean it's the ultimate solution! I thought there must be an easier way, so I dug a little deeper, and I've found it!

Under Options>Device Properties on the Wave In tab there is a box for Multitrack Latency where you can enter a value in milliseconds. I found my value by trial and error, which turned out to be 5 milliseconds. Now everything records in sync without having to do the Time Offset thing on every track... Hmm... Kinda sounds like the way it should have worked in the first place!

To be dirt honest, I'm completely new to all the gear in my home studio. So even though I used to engineer back in analog times, this is a different can of worms and makes me newbie. I knew I wanted a USB interface for the portability and the fact that you can keep it away from computer and monitor noise. But I also knew it would have more latency. I just assumed that the Time Offset thing was a necessary evil- Even though it was a pain.

I was wrong! Seems dumb now, not to have thought of it before... After all, that's why they have direct monitoring on USB interfaces; to compensate for the latency you would otherwise hear while dubbing tracks. Obviously it must be accounted for on playback! The above method is working perfectly without all that other screwing around!

I'm totally with Manning1 on getting your computer running as fast and clean as possible, and I've applied many of his tips. But my USB interface is inherently latent (5ms ain't awful though) and this has completely solved the problem. Give it a try, and if you get a chance let us know! -A

 

[lpdeluxe]

You don't have to use trial and error. You can record something with a spike attack (like the hand clap from a drum machine) on Track One, then record it from there onto Track Two, and compare where the peaks are. Subtract one from the other, convert to milliseconds, and enter it in the "latency" field.

 

[aciddart]

Hi lpdeluxe. I thought of that while I was trying to set it up. I figured that even though 5 ms sounded perfect, it must actually be some small percentage greater or less than this. I used sequenced woodblock hits that I recorded on my drum track for a count in. Like you say, the best way would be to record those onto another track and measure the difference. However, to do that through the interface you have to take the output of the soundcard and run it to one of the inputs. In my case, doing this creates a feedback loop, so it wasn't possible.

My interface has midi so I guess the work-around would be to record a midi track and the use that to trigger one of the synths or drum machines onto another track. Would it be correct to assume that the midi latency will be exactly the same as the audio??? It would have to be, wouldn't it?

I can say that the 5 ms is working perfectly and I can't percieve any timing difference at all. And get this... In the CEP help regarding multitrack latency... It actually says to set this up using trial and error!!!!! They give an example of 7 ms, but I tried it and you can add decimal to the whole number. I'm with you about wanting a more accurate figure. -A

 

[lpdeluxe]

It happens that it's very easy with my setup to record from a playback to a new track, but the fact is, that as long as you are within a sort of "tolerance zone" it won't make much difference once you get it to where it sounds in time.

 

[Musko]

Okay--now it gets bad. I spoke with an awesome tech who knew right away that the Delta was in the wrong PCI slot--even though there were apparently no conflicts. It should be in slot 2 on my Asus board (master bus slot, I take it). So, I did that, AND I removed my other sound card and my modem. So the only stuff in there now is the Delta and the video card. Delta is now on IRQ 10; video card IRQ 11. That's hunky dory. Now no conflicts show; before , I had the following conflicts:

IRQ 3 VIA USB Universal Host Controller
IRQ 3 VIA USB Universal Host Controller
IRQ 3 CM18738/C3DXPCI Audio Device

But...things are not fixed. I have everything set up properly (I think) in Delta and Cool Edit. I make certain that both are set to 48 or 44.1 (that they match), that Delta is set to Independant; I've tried every DMA buffer size in Delta. I still get pops and clicks, though not as badly as before. In fact, they are more pronounced when I try to add tracks in Cool Edit. I still have jitters and latency in Cool Edit. No latency in Power Tracks, but pops and clicks.

I'm wondering if it is something to do with by BIOS set up. If CPU setting is 100, should DRAM be the same? What is DRAM? If my installed sticks of 256 (x2) are both 133, does that matter? If I have 512 of installed RAM, do I enable or disable onboard memory (64MB)? Could it be my settings in Cool Edit? I'm using version 1.2--can someone tell me what all buffer settings (all settings, in fact) should be?

Frustrated,
dm

 

[Musko]

I also have all updated drivers for Delta and VIA chipsets. So that's not it.

 

[manning1]

musko.
did you say you have a video card in a pci slot ?
please clarify - this is important . also tell me the brand - also important.
did you talk to maudio yet ? or pgtech support ?
thnx.
also which awesome tech did you talk to ? at maudio ?
do you have the model number of your motherboard ?
meybe an old box ?
i need to check some things out. thnx.

 

[simonlusco]

Timing stuff

I ahve just been reading your message board. I have successfully been running audition 1.0 on an older machine perfectly for many months. After having an upgrade my tracks are not in sync together either. I have clicked the dialogue box (correct drift) and even this did not help last night. I had this problem previously and corrected it by changing the options/settings/(Can't remember what its called but does anyone know how to cure this problem better?

 

[tonsofpcs]

If you can [and know how COMPLETELY, and feel comfortable doing so, and have done so before, and know how to prevent IRQ change conflicts in Windows 2000/XP], you may want to set the bios to force IRQ 10 to that PCI slot.