Track Count : What am I missing???

[David Katauskas]

I've read a few posts in the recent past where the track count just boggles my mind. When I do a regular rock/metal tune with maybe a few accoustic pieces, I might end with 15 tracks tops:

2 - elect gits
3 - acoustic gits
5 - drums
1 - bass
3 - vocal
14 - TOTAL

Then I read about mixes that have 40 or even 60 tracks. What's up with that? Is there something fundamental that I'm missing?

 

[scrubs]

Yeah, fluff.

Heavily layered guitars, background vocals, etc. take up lots of tracks. Various percussion elements (shakers, bongos, etc.) can also add to the track count, as will the obsessive miking of the top and bottom of every piece of the drum kit. Keyboard/MIDI beeps and boops also add up, even if they're only present for a few seconds of the tune. Oh, and cowbell. That's at least 6 tracks right there.

 

[jonnyc]

Well when i record its usually 8 tracks minimum for drums, 4-6 for electric guitars, 2 bass, and as many as it takes for vox, sometimes 10 tracks, i'm usually pushing 25 to 32 tracks

 

[dgatwood]

Well when i record its usually 8 tracks minimum for drums, 4-6 for electric guitars, 2 bass, and as many as it takes for vox, sometimes 10 tracks, i'm usually pushing 25 to 32 tracks

8 tracks for the drums per take x 3 takes, doing a fast crossfade between takes when one part of one take sounds better than that part of another. Three or four lead vocal tracks, same deal. Same for each other instrument, etc. It's really easy to exceed 32 tracks. In general, only a fraction of those are actually making any sound at any given time, of course.

This is, of course, one of the disadvantages of tracking yourself. If you have no time budget, you'll tend to retrack it to death, where you probably wouldn't if you were paying by the minute....

 

[7string]

Yeah, fluff.

Heavily layered guitars, background vocals, etc. take up lots of tracks. Various percussion elements (shakers, bongos, etc.) can also add to the track count, as will the obsessive miking of the top and bottom of every piece of the drum kit. Keyboard/MIDI beeps and boops also add up, even if they're only present for a few seconds of the tune. Oh, and cowbell. That's at least 6 tracks right there.

WHAT?!?!?!! Shakers? Bongos? Beeps? Boops? Top AND bottom on every drum? Shit, I need more mics...

Not to mention Shakers, bongos, beeps & boops!

Oh, and uh... what's 'fluff?'

 

[LemonTree]

and once you get all the tracks down there's always the option of bringing your effects returns back to individual traks to give you full EQ, etc. Things mount up pretty quickly

 

[LemonTree]

Oh, and cowbell. That's at least 6 tracks right there.

only 6 for cowbell?

 

[Mark7]

and once you get all the tracks down there's always the option of bringing your effects returns back to individual traks to give you full EQ, etc. Things mount up pretty quickly

Hmm, unless you're actually recording the effected tracks onto their own tracks to be mixed in with the dry tracks later, I think you'll find that's channels

 

[LemonTree]

channels it is Mark! Very early and not enough coffee here

 

[STAT1STICK]

I've read a few posts in the recent past where the track count just boggles my mind. When I do a regular rock/metal tune with maybe a few accoustic pieces, I might end with 15 tracks tops:

2 - elect gits
3 - acoustic gits
5 - drums
1 - bass
3 - vocal
14 - TOTAL

Then I read about mixes that have 40 or even 60 tracks. What's up with that? Is there something fundamental that I'm missing?

I'm a n00b of sorts and up until recently, I have only used a max of 16-18 tracks in a song. On my latest production, I'm pushing 30 and that doesn't include vox. I guess my suggestion is to start small and work your way up. It's not going to be easy to maintain a song containing 20+ tracks but in time you will get the hang of it.

One thing that really works for me is to find a track that you want to keep as your "base" (usually drums). Whenever you change something in the song, try to relate the change to your base and work around that. That gives me a sense of structure without the need to pull out my hair.

Good luck!

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I guess my suggestion is to start small and work your way up. It's not going to be easy to maintain a song containing 20+ tracks but in time you will get the hang of it.

I would actually suggest exactly the opposite.

As my techniques have refined, I have cut way down on the number of tracks required to get a good mix. Nowadays if I have a standard 5-piece rock combo with full vocals, if I wind up with more than 18-20 tracks total before mixdown, I know I'm doing something the wrong way and usually then step back and rethink the session.

There are two reasons track counts have gotten higher these days; an excessive dependance on a large number of microphones placed badly instead of a smaller number of microphones used wisely, and, the emergence of hip hop, which often needs huge amounts of layering on the vocals to make up for the sonic sparsity of the instrumental arrangements.

G.

 

[scrubs]

Oh, and uh... what's 'fluff?'

It's one of these, I believe:

 

[RAMI]

I have a 24-track and have never exceeded using 16. And that's only because the song had persussion and a few more back vocal tracks than usual. I usually use 14 tops. For a 4 or 5 piece band, any more just means they're doubling stuff. I've yet to hear a home recording that sounds good if too many tracks were used. The best home recordings I've heard took the approach of less is more. And the biggest mistake most home recorders make, in my opinion, is to use too much everything...tracks, compression, reverb. Sure signs of inexperience.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

A typical production for my is about 32-40 tracks. I've had as many as 80 tracks on other songs. More tracks, however, doesn't equal "better"; ultimately it's the song, artist, sound, time limits, and goals in mind that ultimately dictate how many tracks end up being recorded.

How it typically breaks out for me is:

Drums:

Kick
Snare (98% of the time only top mic, on rare occasion bottom mic too)
Toms (gotten as many as 6 channels here)
Overheads (2)
Room (can get as many as 3, but typically 2)
High Hat (about 50% of the time)
Ride Cymbal (about 10% of the time)
Kick trigger
Snare trigger
Tom triggers (can get as high as 6)

Bass:

Typically I take a DI and mic on the bass amp. Had close and far mics on the amp before as well.

Guitar:

Typically one close, one far mic. Sometimes I'll have 2 close mics, or 2 close mics and a far mic. One time I had 3 amps and 7 mics setup.

This is where you can get into a ton of tracks because if I have 3 mics up on the amp and we run 4 tracks... right there you have 12 channels of audio!

Vocals:

I'll comp down vocals, but I've seen projects where I doubled the main vocals and all the background parts as well. I've seen as many as 20 vocal tracks on stuff before when it was all said and done.

Keyboards:

These can stack up to be 2-5 channels on some songs. Depends. Probably 80% of the time there are none.

Additional samples, noises, audio, etc:

Tracks for background noises and other audio bits can sometimes add a few more tracks to the mix.

 

[RAMI]

Yes, but you know what you're doing, judjing by anything I remeber reading from you. Also, though I may be wrong, you're not a home studio, are you? Most HOME recordists should stick to way less than that.

 

[Fenderville]

You only need two tracks a good band with good songs and one mic...

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Wasn't it David Lee Roth who said that if you can't do it with your one amp per person and a single light bulb, you can't do it at all?

 

[Robert D]

Wasn't it David Lee Roth who said that if you can't do it with your one amp per person and a single light bulb, you can't do it at all?

I think that was one condom per person and a single groupie. Of course now it's and a single hooker.


My standard template is 26 tracks ( I was always short a couple of tracks in the old days), but what I end up using varies from 8 to 32, depending on the arraingement.

-RD

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

Yes, but you know what you're doing, judjing by anything I remeber reading from you. Also, though I may be wrong, you're not a home studio, are you? Most HOME recordists should stick to way less than that.

Nope, not in a home studio (anymore). I have a ProTools HD 4 rig, Control 24, 96 IO, 2 96i's, some Vintech 473's, some ISA 428's, some UA 8110 preamps, etc.... It's a fairly well equipped studio.

He was just wondering how the track counts could get that high. I don't expect a home recordist to remotely be able to handle that type of track count (or plug in count for that matter).

 

[RAMI]

I dig.


(Did I just say "dig"?)