tone and volume controls on a strat

[olfunk]

hi there, i am getting a no-name strat soon, and i am going to change the pickup selector from 5way to 3way, as i don't need a 5way, and if they got by with 3way in the 60s then i can. i was wondering if it would be possible to change one of the tone knobs to a volume, and then turn the other tone knob to a master tone knob. simplified: neck volume > middle volume > master tone.

is this possible?

 

[ez_willis]

How many pickups?

 

[Outlaws]

hi there, i am getting a no-name strat soon, and i am going to change the pickup selector from 5way to 3way, as i don't need a 5way, and if they got by with 3way in the 60s then i can. i was wondering if it would be possible to change one of the tone knobs to a volume, and then turn the other tone knob to a master tone knob. simplified: neck volume > middle volume > master tone.

is this possible?

I am sure a lot of people in the sixies had a 3 way, but if you have a 5 way then I think you have a few more bragging rights.

 

[punkin]

Dude...you're old!

 

[Sirnothingness]

Don't you have a bridge pickup on it? Or did they not have those in the 60's?

 

[Light]

Well, the reason they started using 5-way switches is because players wanted them and were sick of trying to balance the switches in-between positions. Really, the definitive sound of the Strat all comes from those in-between positions. That is where the classic Strat "quack" comes from. Try it before you change it, because you will probably prefer the five way switch.

As for the volume and tone controls, that is easily done. The volumes go in series before the switch on the hot signal (the white wire on most Fender style pickups). Just move the wires around a bit. It should be obvious what goes where. The tone control will be a parallel connection to ground, with a cap (usually a .022 uF on a Strat) somewhere between the switch and ground. The cap can be either before or after the pot. And of course, as has already been pointed out, you would have no volume control on the bridge pickup. Now, that may be what you want, buy I would certainly miss it. Then again, you may use a volume pedal, so you may not care. Up to you, I suppose.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Dani Pace]

A 5 way switch can be wired in several interesting ways, typical is 1-bridge pu, 2-bridge & middle, 3-middle, 4-middle & neck, 5-neck. This is easily changed if you are at all handy with a soldering iron. Changing from a single volume/dual tone controls to a dual volume/single tone dosen't take much more work, you might even be able to use the same pot (remove the cap and the location of the + wire to the center pin on the pot, I said might, I'm not sure.) It can be wired so when in switch position 1 the volume control clocest to the bridge will control the bridge pu, 2 would have the control clocest to the bridge on the bridge pu and the other volume control on the middle pu, 3 would have the clocest control on the middle pu, 4 would have the clocest control on the middle pu and the second on the neck pu, 5 would have the clocest control on only the neck pu. A friend of mine has a Jackson set up to do this, I'm not sure if the switch had to be changed or if it was just rewired but I do know it can be done. Do a search for alternate guitar wireing diagrams, there is a good possibility you can find a schematic or diagram that shows you exactly how to do it. Check http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm for some ideas and an explanation of wireing, you may even find what you are looking for there. Good luck and I hope you find the combination that suits you.

 

[olfunk]

cheers guys!!!! especially light and dani pace. dani pace - that sounds pretty complicated! light - you mentioned that if i did what you said, i would have no control over the bridge volume, is there a way where, i could control the neck and bridge but not the middle, as i wouldnt be using that nearly as much. would this all change the tone? oh and how easy is it to change from 5 way to 3 way?

 

[Light]

I guess it is time for a bit of a discussion of the basics of guitar electronics. They are pretty simple to understand, for the most part, so you should be able to understand it no problem.

First, it is important to understand how a potentiometer works. Pots are also called variable resistors, which probably makes it easier to understand what they are doing.

In the diagram, the red track is a carbon track. This track is a resistance between the two red terminals. The blue terminal goes to a wiper that touches the carbon track. You move its position with the shaft of the control. the resistance between the blue terminal and the red terminals is relative to the position of the wiper.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

So, a volume control shunts a part of the signal to ground. The most basic form of guitar wiring would be a single pickup with a single volume control. The most common way to do this, and the way it is done on VAST majority of instruments, is to have the pickup hooked up to one end of the track, and the other end hooked up to ground. The wiper is conected to the output.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

The above method of volume control, which could be called output to ground, has a problem, however, when used in multiple volume control situations. On a Les Paul, for instance, when you use both pickups, both pickups respond to either volume control, so you do not get the ability to blend the pickups as precisely as some might prefer.

So, there is another way to wire a volume control, which is used on multiple volume instruments where you want the ability to blend the level precisely. The most common example of this is the Jazz Bass. This could, I suppose, be called pickup to ground. In this, the pickup is conected to the wiper, the output is conected to the end of the track opposite ground.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

So volume controls are placed in line with the signal, or in series. Tone controls work differently. The are placed in parallel. The cap will pass frequencies above a certain cut off point (which is value dependant, with the cut off being higher on higher value caps). In a tone control, these frequencies get blead to ground, thus making the sound darker as you turn the control down.

Edit: Oops, I actually got this one backwards. The pickups should go to the other side of the track.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[ez_willis]

In the diagram, the red track is a carbon track. This track is a resistance between the two red terminals. The blue terminal goes to a wiper that touches the carbon track.

I don't think we have the same kind of pots in our guitars.

Can you identify this?

 

[Light]

A switch, in its simplest form, simply picks up the signal from either side of the switch. Actually, there are even simpler switches which can switch two conections either on or off. This is called a single pole/single throw switch, or a spst. You can add throws to this, so that you can switch the output between two inputs (or one input between two outputs). It would then be a spdt, or single pole double throw. A Les Paul uses a spdt switch, and though the mechanics are a bit more complex, it works pretty much exactly like the diagram. It does have a middle possition, which is just a stop where it makes contact with both sides of the switch. This gives you both the pickups at the same time.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

I don't think we have the same kind of pots in our guitars.

Can you identify this?

I'm not talking about pot-HEADS, dope fiend!




Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[Light]

Fender style switches are dp3t switches (double pole, triple throw). The only difference between 5 and 3 position switches (or at least the ones which come stock in Fender guitars) is the number of detents used. These can be wired in a LOT of different ways, but basically each pole works as a separate switch, with all of them operated by the same lever. If you want to see a bunch of different ways to wire them, check out the Seymour Duncan website.

The important thing is, all of these things can be used as building blocks. You can use them in any order you want. If you have a volume control before a switch, it will only effect the pickup it is connected to (or at least, it will mostly effect that pickup). A tone control can be added where ever it needs to go. If you only want to put it on one pickup, then you put it before the switch. If you want it to effect all the pickups, you put it after the switch.

If you want to draw up what you want, go ahead. Post it, and I'll be happy to let you know if it will work. Check out Seymour Duncan's web site to look at the schematics. Passive electronics are not, for the most part, rocket science. Give it a try.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[olfunk]

wow, thanks a lot for all that!!!