To track mono or stereo that is the question...

[Cyanide-Depende]

I track everything in stereo, but then again, I use alot of stereo effects, even on vox

 

[LeeRosario]

Sometimes it's hard enough just to get one mic on a tom.
Though I guess the overheads pretty much have the same effect to what Katz is saying.

well see, not just the overheads, but the importance of the room in combination with the overheads.



Without a good room and making good use of that room, you can't hope to achieve that stellar depth everyone gets frustrated in trying to achieve.

That's the essence of what katz's is saying.

 

[slidey]

well see, not just the overheads, but the importance of the room in combination with the overheads.



Without a good room and making good use of that room, you can't hope to achieve that stellar depth everyone gets frustrated in trying to achieve.

That's the essence of what katz's is saying.

THE ROOM IS SO IMPORTANT for the sound of the kit & the depth that people try for. I have been recording acoustic drums for approximately 6 years & have achieved some good sounds (that are always improving). However my all time fav drum sounds (2 in particular) where recorded with two mics, & of my own production one of my favourites was done with four mics, a D112, 2xC1000s & a C3000

So yeah dude's if your room sounds naff then there's a fair chance it won't record well (sometimes I deliberately go for a nasty/trashy sound). It all comes with being familiar with the spaces one has to record in & what rooms sound like in comparison with the next room

it's never ending I could pull my hair out thinking about the endless possibillties but I'm going bald as it is

 

[famous beagle]

Accoustic guitars really come to life in stereo, Most keyboards have a stereo out. Drums should always be at least in stereo if not in multiple panned positions. I would tend to agree that lead vocals and bass guitar, are usually better centered (mono) but there are even exception to this rule. IF YOU HAVE THE TRACKS? record stereo.


Dom

This is ENTIRELY subjective. Drums should always be in stereo? Says who? You? I know it's conventional, but that's not a rule. I happen to think some recordings by a group of musicians known as the Beatles sound pretty good. Have you heard any of their recordings by chance?

 

[famous beagle]

This whole subject is really just a matter of taste. Just because someone's a bigtime producer/engineer with tons of credits doesn't mean their advice is golden to everyone. Bob Rock is certainly a huge name, but I usually hate the sound of his projects.

And regarding the whole stereo vs. mono thing, realize this:

Going for a more "natural" sound is kind of pointless, when you consider how unnatural the close-miking process already is. When was the last time you were able to hear someone singing nice and clear over a dimed out Marshall or Fender Twin? Or when can you hear a fingerpicked acoustic over a drumset? There's not much "natural" about recording. We try to give the impression of it by panning and such, but there's not really even anything in the natural world to compare it to if you think about it.

Maybe if you're recording chilled out music like ... I don't know ... I guess the Cowboy Junkies would be a good example. I've heard that they record everything live into one stereo mic. But when you start adding loud drums and electric guitars, etc., "natural" pretty much goes out the window.

So I say, record what you want. If it makes a neat sound that you like, keep it. There shouldn't be any steadfast rules (because they'll only end up broken at some point anyway).

 

[Dumby]

Bob Katz is a fucktard.

Actually, I reread it and he gives the example of a "pair of bongos." I can certainly see recording those with two mics, and panning them so there is a little space between them. Still, many other instruments can be tracked in mono. Perhaps Mr. Katz has more experience dealing with recording and mixing than most (all) of us and can wants to have more tracks to play with at mixdown. That's fair. However, tracking something in stereo or with multiple mics, if you are going to pan it (especially hard panning) can result in dramatic changes in the sound of the track (due to more noticeable comb filter/phase issues) which may suck. Clearly, some stuff (piano, acoustic guitar, keyboards, harp, choirs, etc.) may sound better in stereo. I just don't buy that everything needs to be recorded in stereo. Especially vocals.

C'mon now...who wouldnlt' triple track the bongos nowadays...seriously

 

[Mistral]

You guys are all in the stone ages.. I track in surround.





..ok, not really

 

[brendandwyer]

Sometimes I throw the drums in a dumpster and smash them with a hammer, and then throw the microphones in and mash them up too. I get a pretty good result.

 

[Mistral]

Oh, you must be in an emocore band. That would sound better than the vast majority.

 

[brendandwyer]

I also throw sides of beef in their and trap neighborhood cats so they spray urine on the set. It brings out subtle overtones you just don't get with dog shit.

 

[CoolCat]

Tracking and Mixing kept seperate

I've found tracking dry(no board eq) and in mono helps for me, not that you can't have two mics on a bongo or acoustic guitar going on to differnt recorder-channels. But all channels are straight up when tracking.

this works for me as it also prevents song-burnout imo. thanks to BMWERKS for this insightful, troubleshooting tip for my issues.

Mono tracking not only forces the frequency crowding early on, requiring to work a bit harder at getting complementary sounds to start with (with via mics and placements, instruments etc.)
but it really helped with maintaining a better focus on the original performance than getting "too busy" trying to mix/eq/pan while tracking which caused me burnout.
At least from a DIY type recording situation...a studio staff of one!

And I find, as many have said, if you can get it ok in Mono, when you push that stereo button and start panning its a wonderful buzz!

Its great, the song is down much quicker, then put the instruments away TRACKING is over,
have rum/coke or iced tea and play Mixing dewd.. eq, press the stereo button and pan, add effects and in my case make it still sounds like ASS!!!
Haven't made much advancement in the Mixing stage as it takes actually "doing it" to improve.

But I don't get song burnout anymore while tracking in mono/dry!
Thanks again B!

 

[brendandwyer]

Sure, you could do it that way, if you don't have a dumpster & beef

 

[CoolCat]

Around here Dumpsters are a luxury.
We usually just throw dog shit at each other.

Then we are in the mood for emocore music.

Its not good to get feese's in your mouth as it can make you sick.

I'm much older now and only video tape others desecrating on their instruments and smashing microphones with hammers.

As for the Beef, just my 2 cents as I'm only an HR not a professional Recording and Mastering Engineer, but I would think Beef would be more of an absorber in the 700 to 3Khz, however as it dries it will harden so it will then become more of a Dispursion/Reflection entity affecting the higher freqs.

once the maggots start up it changes again, so its not really a LONG TERM thing.

Once we had dog shiot thrown all over our studio and it was fhkng great and the singer was singing EMOCORE stuff and someone started calling the groupies MAGGOTS.

 

[brendandwyer]

Wierd! Beef is actually good as a bass trap, however it does smell terrible after a 36 hour session.

EMOCORE. haha, i was in an EMO band and we were so emotional i had a dumpster installed in the practice space. I then hired a traveling circus of cat juggling gypsies to take residence in said dumpster. During practices, they would hurl cats at us. The cats were trained to urinate on our instruments, therby giving us our signature *sound.

We never had groupies, but we definately got maggots on the sides of beef hung in the corners as bass traps.

At one point, we were playing a live show in Vancouver and through the wafting curtains of bong smoke, Rapchinovski (the head of the cat juggling gypsy clan) began throwing knives instead of cats. You see, we had had a bit of a falling out the previous night (whilst eating goulash) over the finer points of our contractural obligations. He was angered that the beef in the studio was being wasted as sound absorbtion when it could have been ground up along with *spent cats and sold to local chinese restaurants. We were having a contractural rift at that point. Emo ceased being tepid, boring, over emotive, and bland, and became, annoying, lackluster, rank, and maggoted.

Long story short, we ate the cats, sold the beef, killed the gypsies, and started a glamrock band. Unbekownst to us, glamrock had died twenty years before emo was born. Dang.

 

[CoolCat]

At one point, we were playing a live show in Vancouver and through the wafting curtains of bong smoke, Rapchinovski (the head of the cat juggling gypsy clan) began throwing knives instead of cats. You see, we had had a bit of a falling out the previous night (whilst eating goulash) over the finer points of our contractural obligations. He was angered that the beef in the studio was being wasted as sound absorbtion when it could have been ground up along with *spent cats and sold to local chinese restaurants. We were having a contractural rift at that point. Emo ceased being tepid, boring, over emotive, and bland, and became, annoying, lackluster, rank, and maggoted.
.

yeah, Rapchinovski was waaaay ahead of his time. Wow, what a story you actually almost got stabbed by him throwing knives..awesome.

I had heard rumors he had a short temper especially when eating goulash.
It was some article in DOGSHIT magazine.

It was kind of a shame RIP came along right when Ozzy was biting heads off bats heads and throwing hundreds of dead-cats all over the stage, overshadowing his great fits of knife throwing.
Thats why it pays to be rich like Ozzy, they can afford hundreds of cats outshining the band that can only afford 1 or 2 dead-cats to be thrown around on stage.

Gosh I hadn't heard Rapchinovski's name mentioned for a long time! frkn retarded.

I always liked his track DEAD-CATS in the DUMPSTER and DUMPSTER RAGE and of course THROWING KNIVES.

But getting back to the MONO question...

Does anyone TRACK, MIX, and MASTER using ONLY ONE SPEAKER??
Wouldn't this be "real mono"?

Never realized this before,duh!
this is why Guitar Center sells monitors as "each"!
I always wondered why they did that...interesting.

I currently have been using two speakers when doing MONO.

 

[brendandwyer]

Haha. we sort of ruined this thread eh? (or made it outstanding, i don't know the difference anymore)

 

[Garik]

to make the story short!

You are hungry and going to get some food.
You see a burger you really want,but you are afraid it won fill you up,
so you get 2 of them just in case
and if one fill's you up,just toss the other one(track in this case) or share it (butger in this one)with someone
it never hurts to have 2 rather than one

Man i'm hungry

 

[CoolCat]

there's alot of beef to this thread.

I've tried a recommendation of using a mic split into
1) Outboard Preamp/Channel strip into Track 1
2) Inboard Preamp Track 2
It was mentioned from old Motown article someone posted.

I think I read Ripchinovski has MONO, it may have been someone else.

 

[brendandwyer]

He does, its the kissing disease. I don't know if you know it but Mr. R is into beastiality.

He agrees with splitting the mic into two channels though. He believes that the more options recorded during tracking the better. Provided you have enough channels. If you are using a four track, better start submixing!

Too much beef, we gotta start grilling. WHOA THERE GOES A KNIFE