Tips for a bass newbie

  • Thread starter Thread starter thebigcheese
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famous beagle said:
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I'm just saying that, IMO, the original poster probably wasn't talking about things like EQ as "effects."

People (well most people do, you don't) qualify things like EQ and Compression when they talk about "effects" because they're not really thought of as other effects usually, because their purpose is to usually remain transparent and invisible. When they are used in a way where they're meant to be heard, then most people would say that they are acting as effects---things like the phone-sounding vocals with all mids, for example.

Anyway, you're basically saying that everything is an effect, which I don't think is in the spirit of the original post at all.
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No more pissing contest :) I'd like to interject that I was not, in fact, including EQ as an effect (considering it's built into the bass). Compression is a little different, because it is often used on bass, so that's good to know (I sort of already knew that, though, from recording classes). I was mostly talking about distortion or other strange things people might do (the guy in Muse does some strange things).

Just remember: a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. So let's try to avoid getting into too many technicalities here :)
 
thebigcheese said:
No more pissing contest :) I'd like to interject that I was not, in fact, including EQ as an effect (considering it's built into the bass). Compression is a little different, because it is often used on bass, so that's good to know (I sort of already knew that, though, from recording classes). I was mostly talking about distortion or other strange things people might do (the guy in Muse does some strange things).

Just remember: a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. So let's try to avoid getting into too many technicalities here :)
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Right.

In that case heres my take on fx that can sound fantastic on bass:-

1. EQ (look bear with me here!)
2. Compression (mild to mental, it all has a place)
3. Limiting (Pretty much a must have for digital recording)
4. Gating (noise 'reduction' or as an effect, play whole tones then side chain the hihats and gate of them, play with the attack to make the bass out of phase with the hats)
5. Ducking (duck the bass sidechained from the kick to create frequency space for both)
6. Overdrive (uber popular for rock,punk, well anything aggressive)
7. Distortion (see above)
8. Fuzz (Anyone remember The Silverfish, or Mudhoney?)
9. Envelope Filters/Phasers (go straight to PFunk, do not pass go do not collect £200)
10. Chorus (A world of jazz baby. Interestingly a lot of goth/new wave bass sounds relied on chorus very heavily)
11. Phasers (back in the funk vibe. Also can be really nice for electronica inspire sounds. Absolutely fantastic after a heavy distortion or overdrive though. Massive)
12. Flangers (Somewhere between phasers and chorus in their application. For a very distinctive sound try one after distortion, set the mod speed to 0, then play with dpeth and feedback to change the tone, can be another electronica gem this)

Mix all the above together at pretty much the same time to achieve Bootsy Collins levels of bass fx mastery:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS5DLL9TlqM

From this article on Bootsy:-
http://www.bassplayer.com/article/william-bootsy-collins/Jul-05/10770

<QUOTE>
Classic Mothership Connection Tour gear
Custom Space Bass (built by Larry Pless), Alembic F2-B preamp, Crown 300 power amp, Mu-Tron III envelope filter, Morley Wah/Fuzz, Electro-Harmonix Big Muff distortion, Oberheim Echoplex, Mu-Tron Octave Divider, MXR Digital Delay, two Cerwin-Vega speaker stacks, each consisting of a 1x18, a 1x15, and a 1x12 + horn

Current gear
Space Bass, custom F Bass, Alembic F2-B preamp, Alembic Super Filter, Roland Space Echo, MXR Digital Delay, Pro Co Rat II, Electro-Harmonix Big Muff distortion, DOD Thrash, DigiTech Grunge, DigiTech Whammy Pedal, Boss BF-3 Flanger, DOD Envelope, two Mu-Tron IIIs, Electro-Harmonix Bass Micro Synthesizer, two Crown Micro 5000 power amps, two Crown Micro 3600 power amps, eight custom-made cabinets with Electro-Voice speakers: two 4x18s, two 4x15s, and four 8x10s
</QUOTE>

Doint know of many people who really outdo Bootzilla on fx mastery. They may have more, but they dont use them better.....
 
Also, check out Larry Graham in Sly and the Family Stone for a great fuzz bass sound.
 
51m0n said:
Well that is misinformation and damnably poor misinformation at that. If that is having a pissing contest then so be it...:eek:
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The pissing contest is over whether or not EQ is an effect. If you turn a tone knob on your bass or your amp, you've EQed it. Is that an effect? Some would say no, others might say yes. Who cares? The guy was obviously not considering EQ as an effect. You do. I say again: who cares? There is no absolute here to consult. Those who do not consider EQ an effect will not change their minds no matter how much you beat them about the head and shoulders or how much contentious verbage you launch from your computer. It is a matter of opinion, and so is whether one cares for effects on bass, and by effects I mean time modulation, phasing, delay, distortion, that sort of thing and not EQ, because everything is EQed, one way or another.

Just how many angels can dance on the head of that pin, anyway? ;^)
 
ggunn said:
The pissing contest is over whether or not EQ is an effect. If you turn a tone knob on your bass or your amp, you've EQed it. Is that an effect? Some would say no, others might say yes. Who cares? The guy was obviously not considering EQ as an effect. You do. I say again: who cares? There is no absolute here to consult. Those who do not consider EQ an effect will not change their minds no matter how much you beat them about the head and shoulders or how much contentious verbage you launch from your computer. It is a matter of opinion, and so is whether one cares for effects on bass, and by effects I mean time modulation, phasing, delay, distortion, that sort of thing and not EQ, because everything is EQed, one way or another.

Just how many angels can dance on the head of that pin, anyway? ;^)
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Fine. You can think of this however you like.

I'd just like to know when is a signal processor an effect and when is it not an effect in your opinion?

Does it matter if its small in size, onboard or outboard, or rackmounted, or within an amp, or used heavily or used subtly?

Does it have to be a modulation to be an effect in your opinion? Is that a distinction you can make? If so where do the boundaries lie?

Is an EQ an effect? If not is a filter an effect? If a single filter is an effect then how can an eq not be an effect since it is several filters which may or may not have overlapping frequency bands?

When is dynamics processing an effect? When you can hear it? Does the device know that it is heard or perceived in any way and that this in some way changes it's status from dynamics processor to effect??

Please explain. Really, because I want to understand these boundaries you are applying to effects versus signal processing, which are effectively opposite to everything I've learnt or been taught in 20 years of sound engineering....

Is this just a question of semantics in the end?
 
51m0n said:
Fine. You can think of this however you like.

I'd just like to know when is a signal processor an effect and when is it not an effect in your opinion?

Does it matter if its small in size, onboard or outboard, or rackmounted, or within an amp, or used heavily or used subtly?

Does it have to be a modulation to be an effect in your opinion? Is that a distinction you can make? If so where do the boundaries lie?

Is an EQ an effect? If not is a filter an effect? If a single filter is an effect then how can an eq not be an effect since it is several filters which may or may not have overlapping frequency bands?

When is dynamics processing an effect? When you can hear it? Does the device know that it is heard or perceived in any way and that this in some way changes it's status from dynamics processor to effect??

Please explain. Really, because I want to understand these boundaries you are applying to effects versus signal processing, which are effectively opposite to everything I've learnt or been taught in 20 years of sound engineering....

Is this just a question of semantics in the end?
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Of course it's semantics. That is precisely my point; there is no absolute reference. I am not applying any boundaries at all (and BTW I have been doing sound engineering for nearly twice your 20 years), quite the contrary. Use EQ (or anything else, for that matter) or not, according to what it does to the sound and whether it does what you want. It makes absolutely no difference whether you call it an effect or not.

The whole point of my ranty thing was that it's silly to go to the mat over whether EQ is or is not an effect. The guy who said that effects are bad for bass or whatever it is that he said (and BTW I don't agree with him on that point in any sort of absolute sense) was obviously, from his context, not considering EQ. It was silly to drag EQ into the argument and begin pummeling him with it because it had absolutely nothing to do with his premise. He was talking about signal processing and you were arguing semantics; you were not even engaging him. It was a completely disconnected argument. It seemed to me that you were trying to win an argument by invoking a technicality rather than by discussing the point he asserted.
 
Speaking of EQ, I've been trying to listen more closely to bass lines lately and I've noticed that it seems like a lot of mixes have all the fret/string noise cut out, but the bass still sounds nice and full (for instance, on the Blink-182 track "The Fallen Interlude"). Are they just putting a low shelf on the bass, or is there more to it than that?
 
ggunn said:
Of course it's semantics. That is precisely my point; there is no absolute reference. I am not applying any boundaries at all (and BTW I have been doing sound engineering for nearly twice your 20 years), quite the contrary. Use EQ (or anything else, for that matter) or not, according to what it does to the sound and whether it does what you want. It makes absolutely no difference whether you call it an effect or not.

The whole point of my ranty thing was that it's silly to go to the mat over whether EQ is or is not an effect. The guy who said that effects are bad for bass or whatever it is that he said (and BTW I don't agree with him on that point in any sort of absolute sense) was obviously, from his context, not considering EQ. It was silly to drag EQ into the argument and begin pummeling him with it because it had absolutely nothing to do with his premise. He was talking about signal processing and you were arguing semantics; you were not even engaging him. It was a completely disconnected argument. It seemed to me that you were trying to win an argument by invoking a technicality rather than by discussing the point he asserted.
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Pffft whatever....
 
Speaking of EQ and regardless of whether one regards it as an effect or not (BTW: I do) I have found an active compared to a non-active bass to be superior for tonal manipulation for recording purposes. Getting "that" tone on bass is for me one of the most challenging aspects of recording. Invariably I tweak the on board EQ on the bass, sometimes radically before getting a tone that is present and cuts through. Of course what is "present" varies dramtically according to the tonal landscape set up by the other instruments. I feed the bass through a tube pre and then into the recorder direct only adding some compression come mix down. Without the advantage of more differentiated tonal control beyond that offered up by the pots (and maybe pickup depending on your bass) the task would be even more challenging than it is.

K.
 
well, my suggestion is to practice with a metronome a ton. there is no substitute!
 
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