Tips for a bass newbie

[MikeTheSurfer]

That setup wasn't Flea's. It's Geddy Lee's.

Nevertheless, you don't have to hack your bass to get a signal into different channels. Split it right after it leaves the bass, and pump it through two channels.

I always do this when recording. I activate two channels to record, each with a different tone quality, and then pan each slightly left or right. I still keep the bass in the middle, but you can hear the separate sounds blending together.

 

[thebigcheese]

Well, in the excerpt you posted, you would have to hack them. I mean, sure I could just EQ them later. Why would you split it to two channels when you could just duplicate the track, though? If it's just being split, I can't imagine there would be any timing differences (as opposed to, say, doing a DI and miking an amp at the same time).

 

[51m0n]

The bass usually(but not always ) follows the bass drum

Sorry thats just huge over simplification and generalisation.

In almost no popular recorded music since the fifties has the bass actually slavishly 'followed the bass drum'. Not in jazz, funk, reggae, rock, ska or pop it hasnt. This is rubbish. Its would be far more accurate to state that bass represents the meeting point between the drummer (pulse) and the harmony. Dont forget the bass has final say in the harmony after all, change the note the bass plays against any given chord and you completely change the chord. For instance if a guitarist plays A minor and the bassist elects to play an F under it the harmony is now an FM7 chord.

As far as effects go, don't bother. I see a lot of guys with pedal boards and stuff, and to be honest, It usually sounds like ass. The effects you hear being used in the studio don't transfer well to the stage. Think of it this way...what kind of effects can you put on a kick drum?

And again a nonsense. Are the following effects used in studios? Compression, EQ, Modulation (chorus, flanger), Filters (envelope etc). All are very very commonly used on bass - both live and in the studio and do not have to sound like ass. Oh and last time I did live FOH sound there was a mass of EQ, compression and gating on the kick! And it sounded fantastic thank you. Just avoid reverb and delay, they will rarely help you.

After nearly 20 years of playing and sound engineering (both live and in the studio ) it never ceases to amaze and astonish me how little some people know and understand the true role of bass in music.

Sorry to sound harsh but I will site you 20 songs where the bass doesnt "follow the bass drum" for every one you can find that it does.

 

[thebigcheese]

Well, to be fair, I was just listening to some fairly recent rock songs the noting how it was mostly following the kick drum, at least for parts of the song. I think it was The Mars Volta, actually... I do agree, however, that the bass can totally change the tune. Some bands will have the guitar just hitting the same chord while the bass changes notes. It's pretty nifty.

I got the J-Station today ($70 on eBay, woot!) and I was noticing that some of their bass patches have chorus on them. Not enough to really hear, but it produces a nice sound, depending on what you might use it for. As a side note, you can get some really nice tones out of that unit, so thanks for the tip, Anfontan.

I understand why I would mostly avoid delay (it seems kinda silly to have on bass), but I don't want reverb, either? I would think that, at least once recorded, I would want to add a little something to flesh it out and fit it "in the room" with the other instruments.

 

[51m0n]

Well, to be fair, I was just listening to some fairly recent rock songs the noting how it was mostly following the kick drum, at least for parts of the song. I think it was The Mars Volta, actually... I do agree, however, that the bass can totally change the tune. Some bands will have the guitar just hitting the same chord while the bass changes notes. It's pretty nifty.

I got the J-Station today ($70 on eBay, woot!) and I was noticing that some of their bass patches have chorus on them. Not enough to really hear, but it produces a nice sound, depending on what you might use it for. As a side note, you can get some really nice tones out of that unit, so thanks for the tip, Anfontan.

I understand why I would mostly avoid delay (it seems kinda silly to have on bass), but I don't want reverb, either? I would think that, at least once recorded, I would want to add a little something to flesh it out and fit it "in the room" with the other instruments.

I dont disagree that there are places that that is what the bass does do in songs. I didnt say it doesnt do that, I said that to say it mostly does that, and thus to effectively right off the bass as merely there to follow the kick whilst imparting some pitch info to said drum in most music is not the case.

As you said it did that in parts of a Mars Volta song, but not all. Because it just doesn't only do that. Really. One of the tracks where the bass really does spend alot of time supporting the kick for instance is The Meters' track Fire On The Bayou, but, and its hugely important, between following the kick there are some of the tastiest funk fills ever played, not over the top, not a lot of notes, but all the funkier for it. To some people it may just be following the kick drum, but that is simply not the case, those fills change that bass line from supporting the kick to being one of the most tasteful funk lines ever recorded.

As for reverb, bass suffers dreadfully due to the difficulty most hi-fis (and lo-fis) have reproducing it. It usually, and your ears will be trained from the vast majority of recordings you have heard to believe that this is gospel, needs to sound very tight to have the punch required to project through all the other instruments effectively. Reverb will tend to drop it into the background. Now very very sparingly in certain types of recording of certain types of music you can get away with a touch (and I mean a touch) of reverb on the bass, but you'd better make sure it has a high pass filter either on it or built into it or the bass will descend into mush. Same with a kick drum. Just never eq kick and bass the same, or they will compete in the mix and one will always be too loud.

Most people consider (even in this day and age) that bass is what they hear around 80Hz to 120Hz. Well the fundamental pitch on an E string on a bass is about 41Hz, and the fact is very very few systems can accurately reproduce that low. Sub-bass is a very often misused word. We hear down to 20Hz, not very effectively but we do. So almost all the 'subs' you hear are not effectively tuned low enough to be true subs. The lower the frequency the more power you need to balance it against the mid range that our ears are attuned to. Rather than produce real earth moving subs manufacturers give the effect of subs and our brains fill in subharmoics for us to a degree.

In fact its quite hard to find mainstream bass amplification that does a really good job down around 35-40Hz, and when you get on to 5 strings and drop tunings then to get any kind of reproduction of the fundamental at any volume you need to start investing in seriously boutique equiptment.

That just isnt going to help reproduction of your recordingfor almost everyone listening to it however.

Bass also can extend above the frequencies of guitars - yeah a load of people on here may well be about ot jump with claims of 'oh no it doesnt', but here's a thought, when did you last find a guitar amp with a pro quality tweeter in it? Well surprise for you, nearly all modern bass guitar enclosures that are not specifically designed with a vintage sound have a hi quality bullet tweeter in them (not a piezo). This is because the harmonic content in fresh new bass strings extends above the frequencies that paper cones can effectively reproduce. Thats what makes the zingy tone that is a part of so many bass sounds. Take it away by removing the tweeter and using old strings and you are left with a Motown thud, fine in the right place but not right for a huge amount of modern music.

Finally bass changing the chord whilst the guitars dont happens a lot. It is very nifty as you say. The bass can either completely change the chord, or change the inversion of the chord. This is not new. Bach was an absolute master of this technique. In fact he wrote some of the best basslines ever. Check him out some time!

 

[51m0n]

In terms of real world advice for a budding bassist. After years learning & teaching I'd suggest the following pointers:-

1. Do not play hard with your right hand. Bassists tend to take advantage of the huge power in their amps to be loud, this helps with economy of motion, which will in turn help endurance speed and precision. Get Michael Manring's video on playing - he really shows how little right (and left) hand effort should be used. Plus he is a monster (check him out on youtube)

2. Sit down with your bass. Adjust you strap so it is helping support your bass in position to play. Now stand up. The bass should be in the same position. This is the right place to have your bass if you want to get on with the business of playing. Lowering it (lengthening the strap) does several things. It forces your LH thumb to roll over the top of the neck drastically minimising the stretch you have available with your left hand. It forces you to bend your left wrist alot. This is a really really bad thing. Just dont do it.

3. Fret with the least pressure required to hold down a string

4. Musical time is 'bendy'. No really, every groove has a swing, learn to hear and analyse that swing. Then learn to reproduce it.

5. Practice daily. Even if only for ten minutes at a time.

6. The best time keeping tool is a metronome. It doesnt swing. To be able to play against a metronome and swing/groove, set it to click on 2 & 4, you provide 1 and 3 internally. This is hard to master. It is a very very good thing to be able to do.

7. Try and learn one new groove a week from a favourite song - not the whles song necessarily. Do not use tab - ever. Learn by ear. Then get the score.

8. Learn the notes on the neck - properly. To do this write them out, then without looking at the neck or the paper you wrote them out on play in the first position all the natural notes across the four strings and bacl. So start on E string, E, F, G; A string A, B, C; D string D, E, F; G string, G, A, B, C. Move to second position. Say the note names out loud as you play the note. Repeat with all the scales (that was C Major). In one month you will know the neck...

9. Get a good teacher to check over your technique and give your more pointers...

Enjoy!

 

[ggunn]

3. Fret with the least pressure required to hold down a string

And fret each note as close up behind the fret as you can get, nearly on top of the fret.

 

[51m0n]

One more thing.

The classic 'smiley face' eq on bass. Sounds great on your own, is useless in a mix. Bass pitch info is on those mids, lose them and you've lost the plot...

 

[51m0n]

And fret each note as close up behind the fret as you can get, nearly on top of the fret.

+1 absolutely!

 

[thebigcheese]

And fret each note as close up behind the fret as you can get, nearly on top of the fret.

Well, I know basic fretting stuff, like I said, I've been playing guitar for a while now. I've been avoiding scooping out the mids anyway because I don't like how it sounds. I like being able to hear all of my bass. I paid good money for a nice one, I'm not going to just cut it out

I think I'm pretty squared on the timing thing, too. I don't even know where my metronome is anymore. I've been playing drums so long I don't even stop to think "1 and 2 and..." anymore, unless I'm really stuck on timing (and even then, it usually just confuses me).

The tip about the strap is good, though. I'd been playing with it lower because it was comfortable for my right hand down there, but I guess I could bring it higher. Don't want to look like a dweeb on stage 'Course, I'd need gigs first anyway...

I definitely still need to do the note learning stuff. I've been a real slacker about music theory (never needed it for drums), but that's a subject for a different time. I've already posted here about that

 

[famous beagle]

Sorry thats just huge over simplification and generalisation.

In almost no popular recorded music since the fifties has the bass actually slavishly 'followed the bass drum'. Not in jazz, funk, reggae, rock, ska or pop it hasnt. This is rubbish. Its would be far more accurate to state that bass represents the meeting point between the drummer (pulse) and the harmony. Dont forget the bass has final say in the harmony after all, change the note the bass plays against any given chord and you completely change the chord. For instance if a guitarist plays A minor and the bassist elects to play an F under it the harmony is now an FM7 chord.




And again a nonsense. Are the following effects used in studios? Compression, EQ, Modulation (chorus, flanger), Filters (envelope etc). All are very very commonly used on bass - both live and in the studio and do not have to sound like ass. Oh and last time I did live FOH sound there was a mass of EQ, compression and gating on the kick! And it sounded fantastic thank you. Just avoid reverb and delay, they will rarely help you.

After nearly 20 years of playing and sound engineering (both live and in the studio ) it never ceases to amaze and astonish me how little some people know and understand the true role of bass in music.

Sorry to sound harsh but I will site you 20 songs where the bass doesnt "follow the bass drum" for every one you can find that it does.

Well, to be fair, I don't think most people really consider EQ and compression in the same "effects" realm as others like modulation effects (chorus, flanger, etc., which you did mention), disortion/fuzz, delay, etc. While effects are heard on bass, I'd say your argument that they are very, very common is a hard one to back up.

Compression and EQ, sure .... they're probably used on almost 99% of bass tracks, but modulation effects and filter effects are far less common. Sure they crop up occasionally, but occasionally is much different than "very, very common."

I agree that I think people were being a little too militant when saying to "forget about effects" period. There's no reason that you can't experiment and try things out. Some killer tones can come out, such as Larry Graham's fuzz tone with Sly. But I think they were just trying to say, it's usually kind of a novelty when effects are used on a bass---not always, but usually. The prototypical "bass sound" that most people think of when they hear the word "bass guitar" is an uneffected one (yes it will have compression and EQ though).

 

[51m0n]

Well, to be fair, I don't think most people really consider EQ and compression in the same "effects" realm as others like modulation effects (chorus, flanger, etc., which you did mention), disortion/fuzz, delay, etc. While effects are heard on bass, I'd say your argument that they are very, very common is a hard one to back up.

Compression and EQ, sure .... they're probably used on almost 99% of bass tracks, but modulation effects and filter effects are far less common. Sure they crop up occasionally, but occasionally is much different than "very, very common."

I agree that I think people were being a little too militant when saying to "forget about effects" period. There's no reason that you can't experiment and try things out. Some killer tones can come out, such as Larry Graham's fuzz tone with Sly. But I think they were just trying to say, it's usually kind of a novelty when effects are used on a bass---not always, but usually. The prototypical "bass sound" that most people think of when they hear the word "bass guitar" is an uneffected one (yes it will have compression and EQ though).

Absolutely, most bass sounds in pop dont have hugely heavily effected bass. But its more prevalent than you think, especially if you walk out of mainstream pop land (which I might add relies on EQ and compression totally).

Compression is an in-line effect. Its an effect. You said yourself its on 99% of recorded bass. It is quite often used as a part of a signature sound (think Tony Levin woth Peter Gabriel).

Chorus is an effect, its additive. Its been used on countless jazz recordings (and all derivatives of jazz fusion) especially on fretless (Pino Paladino anyone?). Not to mention a huge amount of 80's Goth bass was just drenched on chorus (hmmm The Cure...).

Like it or not EQ is an effect, probably the most powerful effect we have at our disposal. I'd bet money that the vast majority of electric bass parts recorded in the last 20 years has been eq'ed.

Distortion/overdrive. OK anybody here ever heard an Ampeg SVT through an Ampeg 810? Well if you've heard most rock bands touring then actually you have. And in full flow they are the 'industry standard' overdriven bass sound, on literally millions of sold records. If anyone isn't sure about distortion on bass still, have you never heard of Motorhead?? Where have you been?????

Heard of Muse? Just fx all over the bass. Really, tonnes and tonnes of it.

What about the grand daddy of all highly effected bass sounds, Bootsy Collins in his P-Funk days? You don't think you've heard that on a record, well you almost definitely have, since p-funk have been sampled to death by huge numbers of hip hop acts, George Clinton made sure of it since he got royalties, thank you very much. Funk bass is all about filters and modulation effects (chorus, flangers,phasers, envelope filters), often mixed with overdrives. Flea from the Chili's is very partial to overdriving a DOD FX25 envelope filter (Sir Psycho Sexy anybody...). In fact he prefers the sound when said unit is running with a nearly worn out 9volt...

Oh and then there are Exciters, which you can be quite sure get used on bass, especially some recorded slap bass stuff.

Really any suggestion that bass is not commonly and generally effected in some way is truly a nonsense. And redefining what is an effect to suit your argument doesn't win an argument.

 

[thebigcheese]

Mmmm, Muse... like I said before, some of my favorite distorted bass tones. I think the J-Station has the Ampeg SVT on it, actually... I'll have to play with that setting.

 

[famous beagle]

Absolutely, most bass sounds in pop dont have hugely heavily effected bass. But its more prevalent than you think, especially if you walk out of mainstream pop land (which I might add relies on EQ and compression totally).

Compression is an in-line effect. Its an effect. You said yourself its on 99% of recorded bass. It is quite often used as a part of a signature sound (think Tony Levin woth Peter Gabriel).

Chorus is an effect, its additive. Its been used on countless jazz recordings (and all derivatives of jazz fusion) especially on fretless (Pino Paladino anyone?). Not to mention a huge amount of 80's Goth bass was just drenched on chorus (hmmm The Cure...).

Like it or not EQ is an effect, probably the most powerful effect we have at our disposal. I'd bet money that the vast majority of electric bass parts recorded in the last 20 years has been eq'ed.

Distortion/overdrive. OK anybody here ever heard an Ampeg SVT through an Ampeg 810? Well if you've heard most rock bands touring then actually you have. And in full flow they are the 'industry standard' overdriven bass sound, on literally millions of sold records. If anyone isn't sure about distortion on bass still, have you never heard of Motorhead?? Where have you been?????

Heard of Muse? Just fx all over the bass. Really, tonnes and tonnes of it.

What about the grand daddy of all highly effected bass sounds, Bootsy Collins in his P-Funk days? You don't think you've heard that on a record, well you almost definitely have, since p-funk have been sampled to death by huge numbers of hip hop acts, George Clinton made sure of it since he got royalties, thank you very much. Funk bass is all about filters and modulation effects (chorus, flangers,phasers, envelope filters), often mixed with overdrives. Flea from the Chili's is very partial to overdriving a DOD FX25 envelope filter (Sir Psycho Sexy anybody...). In fact he prefers the sound when said unit is running with a nearly worn out 9volt...

Oh and then there are Exciters, which you can be quite sure get used on bass, especially some recorded slap bass stuff.

Really any suggestion that bass is not commonly and generally effected in some way is truly a nonsense. And redefining what is an effect to suit your argument doesn't win an argument.

Again, though, I'll bet you that for every one song you can name with an effect other than compression and EQ, I can name 100 without it.

 

[famous beagle]

Absolutely, most bass sounds in pop dont have hugely heavily effected bass. But its more prevalent than you think, especially if you walk out of mainstream pop land (which I might add relies on EQ and compression totally).

Compression is an in-line effect. Its an effect. You said yourself its on 99% of recorded bass. It is quite often used as a part of a signature sound (think Tony Levin woth Peter Gabriel).

Chorus is an effect, its additive. Its been used on countless jazz recordings (and all derivatives of jazz fusion) especially on fretless (Pino Paladino anyone?). Not to mention a huge amount of 80's Goth bass was just drenched on chorus (hmmm The Cure...).

Like it or not EQ is an effect, probably the most powerful effect we have at our disposal. I'd bet money that the vast majority of electric bass parts recorded in the last 20 years has been eq'ed.

Distortion/overdrive. OK anybody here ever heard an Ampeg SVT through an Ampeg 810? Well if you've heard most rock bands touring then actually you have. And in full flow they are the 'industry standard' overdriven bass sound, on literally millions of sold records. If anyone isn't sure about distortion on bass still, have you never heard of Motorhead?? Where have you been?????

Heard of Muse? Just fx all over the bass. Really, tonnes and tonnes of it.

What about the grand daddy of all highly effected bass sounds, Bootsy Collins in his P-Funk days? You don't think you've heard that on a record, well you almost definitely have, since p-funk have been sampled to death by huge numbers of hip hop acts, George Clinton made sure of it since he got royalties, thank you very much. Funk bass is all about filters and modulation effects (chorus, flangers,phasers, envelope filters), often mixed with overdrives. Flea from the Chili's is very partial to overdriving a DOD FX25 envelope filter (Sir Psycho Sexy anybody...). In fact he prefers the sound when said unit is running with a nearly worn out 9volt...

Oh and then there are Exciters, which you can be quite sure get used on bass, especially some recorded slap bass stuff.

Really any suggestion that bass is not commonly and generally effected in some way is truly a nonsense. And redefining what is an effect to suit your argument doesn't win an argument.

And I'd be interested to see how many people think of EQ as an effect.

 

[51m0n]

Again, though, I'll bet you that for every one song you can name with an effect other than compression and EQ, I can name 100 without it.

Oooh thats a challenge mate.

I think you made a big mistake not including tube overdrive!

Please reconcider, since you just left me virtually every album from before 1980 in the following genres, rock, blues, funk, prog, awww heck everything. And an awful lot recorded after then. Not to mention all the other polish that gets put on these days in terms of aural exciters. What about limiters, they arent quite compressors you know, and in this digital age almost all bass lines get limited either down to disk or as part of the mastering process along with the rest of the mix. Then there is multi band compression, again a different beast from standard compression. Do we have to lump all dynamics processing in here or do you just mean strict compression, cause those pesky engineers like to gate things to keep it quiet too you know, or is it just to make a mockery of some of those statements you've made, I'm not sure.

I still win here too the I think.

In fact I doubt you could find more than the tiniest handful of commercial recordings of electric bass with no processing other than eq and compression. The fact that you cant tell is irrelevant to me. Fact is it is that hard to make bass sound good in a mix context without this kind of effects processing that it is always done.

And I'd be interested to see how many people think of EQ as an effect.

What is the definition of an effect then?

Is it not a circuit or process that takes a sound and changes it in some way, usually with various parameters that can be adjusted by the user?

Look like it or not eq is an effect. As is compression.

You can try all you like to redefine that, but you need to go back to sound engineering 101 and visit the list of inline effects in there. They include specifically eq and compression, also included are gates, limiters, overdrive/distortion, and exciters, filters such as lopass,highpass,bandpass etc. Also ringmodulators according to some people.

I dont give a monkeys how many people on this site or worldwide like to think of eq or compression as an effect, any more than I care what they think should go into an omelette (just eggs, no milk if you must know - bit of cheese if you must).

The fact remains they are effects, maybe people dont realise that. I dont care, now some of them may bother to go and check up their facts - they' will find that I'm right.

And since they are effects in their own right, I stand by what I said originally.

OK lets make this simple for those who still think I'm wrong.

Go to www.turnkey.co.uk look in the studio section. Now click on 'signal processing'. That would be effects to you, since effects process signals. The list of types of effect (signal processors) is as follows:-

Channel Strips (16), Compressors (51), Enhancers (4), Equalisers (22), Gates (6), Mastering Processors (21), Outboard Expansions (9), Reverbs & Multi Effects (28), Vocal Processors (7)

Oh look Compressors and Eqs are so important they get their own sections, reverbs and modulation/multifx just get bunged together.


Have I convinced you yet???

OK go to:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processor

I quote:-
A signal processor, in the realm of digital audio, is a device that modifies an audio signal, either electric or digital. It can be a piece of electronic hardware or computer software. A basic example of a signal processor is a high-pass filter, which removes low frequencies from a signal.

Traditionally signal processors were electronic circuits that affected analog signals. In digital audio, signal processors can be software that alter digitized audio information. The term Digital Signal Processing (DSP) usually refers to the processors that are involved in calculating the effect a digital signal processor will have on an audio file. For example, HD Accel cards by Digidesign (a leader in professional digital audio technology) contain processors that calculate the changes to a digital audio signal.
/END QUOTE

What do you think they include under this definition of devices that affect sound???

Here we are:-

* Equalization
* Filters
* Reverberation
* Delay
* Dynamic processing (compression, expansion, limiting, noise gating)
* Noise reduction

So once again eq, and dynamics get their own sections. So does reverb. And more correctly than you probably realise modulation is grouped alongside and inside delay, since most chorus/flange modulation effects are delay based.

Do you believe me yet???????????

Sorry but your continued refutal of the facts is not properly informed. Please read up on this stuff a bit then come back with a comment...

 

[ggunn]

Sorry but your continued refutal of the facts is not properly informed. Please read up on this stuff a bit then come back with a comment...

Pissing contest!!! ;^)

 

[51m0n]

Pissing contest!!! ;^)

If you like. But to be honest I commented originally when someone said 'Dont use fx on bass it sounds like ass' and when I pointed out a) a list of cases where this was demonstrably not true and b) that fx is a wider criteria than someone else thought and that virtually all bass has fx on it, they promptly try to redefine fx based upon a popularist view not in any backed up. Rather than the actual facts.

Well that is misinformation and damnably poor misinformation at that. If that is having a pissing contest then so be it...

 

[famous beagle]

If you like. But to be honest I commented originally when someone said 'Dont use fx on bass it sounds like ass' and when I pointed out a) a list of cases where this was demonstrably not true and b) that fx is a wider criteria than someone else thought and that virtually all bass has fx on it, they promptly try to redefine fx based upon a popularist view not in any backed up. Rather than the actual facts.

Well that is misinformation and damnably poor misinformation at that. If that is having a pissing contest then so be it...

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I'm just saying that, IMO, the original poster probably wasn't talking about things like EQ as "effects."

And most people don't consider EQ as an effect. Whether you like that or not, or whether it's what the dictionary says or not, I think you have to admit that's the truth.

In your definition, pretty much anything in line with the signal would be an effect. Even plugging direct into the board, you're still going through a preamp, which is going to color the sound.

And you're calling "tube overdrive" an effect? In that case, please tell me how could anybody playing through any kind of an amp do so without using "effects?" Also, don't forget, there's EQ on them there amps, usually, so that's another effect.

Answer me this. Why do you very often hear people say things like, "That's just my Strat and Deluxe with no effects. There's a bit of compression, but that's it."

People (well most people do, you don't) qualify things like EQ and Compression when they talk about "effects" because they're not really thought of as other effects usually, because their purpose is to usually remain transparent and invisible. When they are used in a way where they're meant to be heard, then most people would say that they are acting as effects---things like the phone-sounding vocals with all mids, for example.

Anyway, you're basically saying that everything is an effect, which I don't think is in the spirit of the original post at all.

 

[51m0n]

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. I'm just saying that, IMO, the original poster probably wasn't talking about things like EQ as "effects."

And most people don't consider EQ as an effect. Whether you like that or not, or whether it's what the dictionary says or not, I think you have to admit that's the truth.

In your definition, pretty much anything in line with the signal would be an effect. Even plugging direct into the board, you're still going through a preamp, which is going to color the sound.

And you're calling "tube overdrive" an effect? In that case, please tell me how could anybody playing through any kind of an amp do so without using "effects?" Also, don't forget, there's EQ on them there amps, usually, so that's another effect.

Answer me this. Why do you very often hear people say things like, "That's just my Strat and Deluxe with no effects. There's a bit of compression, but that's it."

People (well most people do, you don't) qualify things like EQ and Compression when they talk about "effects" because they're not really thought of as other effects usually, because their purpose is to usually remain transparent and invisible. When they are used in a way where they're meant to be heard, then most people would say that they are acting as effects---things like the phone-sounding vocals with all mids, for example.

Anyway, you're basically saying that everything is an effect, which I don't think is in the spirit of the original post at all.

Well sorry, but I still disagree.

EQ is an effect. Always has been. Its a way in which to deliberately process a sound. Its use is often subtle true, but it is not transparent or meant to be transparent. When frequency mixing very heavy handed use of cutting eq can be used to 'slot' instruments together in a mix. You know this. The psychoacoustic effect is to 'clean' the mix up. Does the fact that the end listener is unaware of the nature of the processing make it any less pertinent. No.

Same with compression. Acknowledgment by the end listener or awareness of the processing by the end listener is not required for signal processing to have taken place. Deliberate thought through carefully applied signal processing. It is no different from the choice to add a subtle doubling or chorus that the end listener may not actually perceive beyond psychoacoustically. Does that mean theat when used like that its not an effect but some other thing. No thats preposterous nonsense.

Answer me this. Why do you very often hear people say things like, "That's just my Strat and Deluxe with no effects. There's a bit of compression, but that's it."

Because people are utterly ignorant IMO. You want just the strat. Really. Stick your ear on it. You want to record it flat then yes get the best reference DI you can find. No effects at all. Otherwise it isn't 'just mys strat' is it. Why is this hard to understand???

Tube overdrive still counts in that case either way since it requires people to willing pus an amp into overdrive as a choice regarding the quality of the sound. Spend some time on talkbass actually conversing with bassists fanatical about tone and you will find they fall into (very roughly) two main camps. Tube and not tube. And tube guys love the response from their amps when pushed into overdrive. However slightly. Yet no one is ignorant enough to assume that you cant run a tube amp clean, and it sounds fantastic. I was referring to the wilful use of the amp to run in an overdriven state. By your own qualification that must be an effect since it is not transparent at all!