Time aligning

[VSpaceBoy]

So do you guys adjust your OHs to your close mics?

I'm listening to something I tracked last night and I keep feeling like I'm losing tightness out of the snare and kick from the OHs. Seems like I could scoot them up a hair and align them with the snare. WDYD?

 

[slidey]

can't say that I do..........I tend to put things (mics) up & change them if it doesn't sound right to me

I must admit I've never measured things like that at all.....................maybe I should.....................but all I can say is I can't argue with my sound

 

[BigRay]

http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/products/channelstrip/CSGB/TimeTech.shtml

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Thanks for the replys. Thanks for the link BigRay, thats a great read!

 

[littledog]

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If I like the sound of the drums, I never bother. If I don't like what I'm hearing and I suspect phase is an issue, I'll try it.

A lot of times it makes things worse. Although having all the peaks line up on your sound waves on each track would seem like a good thing, sometimes that slight delay between the overheads and the close mics gives some extra dimentionality to the sound.

By the way, I usually consider the overheads to be the reference point, since that is what I use for the bulk of my drum sound. If I move anything else, I move them to match the overheads, not the other way around.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

By the way, I usually consider the overheads to be the reference point, since that is what I use for the bulk of my drum sound. If I move anything else, I move them to match the overheads, not the other way around.

I agree with the OHs being the builk of the sound, but it seems if your close micing guitar and bass/keys direct, that it would sound tighter overall to bring the OHs up than vice versa. Just a thought. This also is assuming that every member of the band is playing nuts on.

 

[slidey]

I agree with the OHs being the builk of the sound, but it seems if your close micing guitar and bass/keys direct, that it would sound tighter overall to bring the OHs up than vice versa. Just a thought. This also is assuming that every member of the band is playing nuts on.

a live band all in the same room???.....................a different animal indeed, one that I'm not fully aware of

I'd say that having the instruments well balanced & amps etc etc positioned strategically to cut down (as much as possible) on the amount of spill one has to deal with would be half the battle

 

[littledog]

a live band all in the same room???.....................a different animal indeed, one that I'm not fully aware of

I don't think that's what he I think he was referring to whether the band was locked into the close mics or the overheads in their cue mixes. Probably the difference is going to be too small to affect overall band timing, but if the overheads are providing the bulk of the sound, that would seem to be true in the cue mixes as well.

 

[scorpio01169]

i tend to do it different mostly cause i record metal band and that tight kick and crack of the snare are important so i get them right and then i work on the toms then i bring up the o hs' just enough to get that sizzle.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

I don't think that's what he I think he was referring to whether the band was locked into the close mics or the overheads in their cue mixes. Probably the difference is going to be too small to affect overall band timing, but if the overheads are providing the bulk of the sound, that would seem to be true in the cue mixes as well.

Yes you are correct.

It sounds like you arrive at the same conclusion as I did.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

i tend to do it different mostly cause i record metal band and that tight kick and crack of the snare are important so i get them right and then i work on the toms then i bring up the o hs' just enough to get that sizzle.

Yea, I have some heavier songs that I may try that same thing on. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Freeform]

i occasionally time align things if the drums start to sound really phasey, but hopefully i've been careful enough tracking that i don't have to.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

If I want a tight, focused, new type sound, yes I'll time align all tracks to the snare, even toms/kick. Subtle, I know, but over all the tracks it adds up.

If I want a vintage, live, natural, indie type sound, I will not change any time delay. Except possibly the under-snare mic if there is one.

I have found that time aligning can really help the sound of a kit in a lot of cases too.

I too reference to (an) overhead, which ever one's snare hit happens latest in time. Or actually I'll choose what ever is the latest track, but it's always an overhead since they are the farthest away. That way I have to slide the waves to the right, instead of having to delete time from the beginning of the waves and slide them left.
What you use as reference is actually all relative. What you have to do is decide what you want the main focus of your kit to be. And align all (or just the overheads) to that.

 

[RAMI]

The most I ever have to do is flip the snare.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

Hey guys I just wanted to let you know.. I read up on comb filtering from that link BigRay supplied (thanks!).
Again great read for anyone who hasn't.

Anyhow, last night I zoomed into the tracks and could visually see how and why combfiltering creates a problem. Its cool to visually see it vrs trying to hear something you are not sure what sounds like. So I bumped up my OH's to match and all I can say is wow. I expected to hear the snare sound more tight. Well, it actually went from sounding thin and poppy to thick and meaty. Didn't really effect the tightness as much as I thought it would though. Same with the cymbals.

Wow. I didn't expect it to sound so different.

So then I had a look at my guitar track that was doubled and panned. Same thing. Huge difference in sound. I never would have thought to check the samples like that to make sure the waveforms arent cause a phase problem.

Just wanted to share.