These lyrics are bothering me...

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Eric J

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This song might have too much ideas in it, I don't know...
But overall it says what I want to say.
It makes a rather difficult point, about your youthful idealism getting tempered by reality... And it's specifically NOT supposed to be gloomy and dirge-ful.

Here's a really rough idea of how the song is supposed to go, but I can't finish it up until I resolve the point of view problems. It's even too rough for the MP3 clinic! There are vocal phrasing problems.

All My Hope Is Gone

And here's the words:

Well you can save the world
You go and go girl,
Set up your fair trade
to buy your coffee appropiately
And when you rant and rave at the big corperations
Trying to expose their third-world operations,
You're still surprised when no one seems to care?

Come on kick up your feet,
Sit down have a cup of tea,
Have some St. John's Wort,
-I'll put the kettle on,

CHORUS: All my hope is gone, etc.

Well I saw you on TV
You made the news again it seems
You couldn't quite hear what you said,
But they had a good shot of your bleeding head
And your friend was there with his hair dyed purple,
And two pounds of metal hanging from his nipples,
They had a good shot of you thrown into the paddy wagon

And I was safe at home,
Just a cheering you on,
just a cheering you on,
-With the TV on

Cause all my hope is gone, etc.

BRIDGE:
And I could not get to sleep last night,
The news was on I watched it all night,
It went on and on, it went on and on

And I don't even worry about nuclear war,
though it's twice as likely as ever before,
it goes on and on, it goes on and on....
Hey you made the BBC

Hey, you wanna see
I got newspaper clippings from '83
They're getting kind of yellowed with age,
But once upon a time we made the front page
Well me and my friends we refused the cruise
Fought the good fight as young people do,
Did you see the one where we showed up old Joe Clark?

That was back when we tried
Before our hopes all died,
Protests in the park,
-it's all condos now

All my hope is gone, etc



By The Way: Joe Clark is a real Canadian politician who we really did emberass at a political event. We were trying to get him to ban the testing of the Cruise Missile here in Alberta in the 80's. I called him Old Joe Clark in the song in honor of the old folk song.
 
Nice lyrics! I see your sentiment clearly- I deal with a lot of activists here in Portland, OR that remind me of "her" in the song, while I tend to behave a little more like the singer.

OK, so the critiques: there aren't many. I haven't heard the song 'cuz I'm at work (almost time to go! :) ) but I see what you are saying about the perspective thing.

"Well I saw you on TV
You made the news again it seems
You couldn't quite hear what you said,
But they had a good shot of your bleeding head
And your friend was there with his hair dyed purple,
And two pounds of metal hanging from his nipples,
They had a good shot of you thrown into the paddy wagon"

Change to "I couldn't quite hear what..." and it resolves the question of who "you" is.

And (again I haven't heard it yet) maybe change "thrown" to "going"?


I LOVE the reference to St. John's Wort tea! For those of you who don't know, it is about the best herbal remedy for depression. ;) LOL!

I really like this song and I'm looking forward to listening to it when I get home.

Very good work- at least in the eyes of someone who is familiar with that territory.

Chris
 
Hey Eric, I would like to just say one thing to you. at worst it will help you look at writing songs a little different or you could just forget you ever heard it.

I was just reading in this other post, about how people write lyrics that mean nothing and that they do this intentionally which is true, or at least the intentional part is true. See actually, when you write a song about "nothing" it is always still about something. You want to know what that something is? Ok, that something is you, the person who wrote the song. Every song is about the person who wrote the song by default. It is about the person who wrote the song even more than it is about characters or events with in the song. The Charactors and "points of views" within songs are really just the fragmented pieces that when put together = you, the person who wrote the song.

In that way the stories, people and places within a song all refer to the different aspects of yourself much like all the charactors and places in a dream are all you. The Bottom line is that I am speaking to you from a psychological standpoint. In a dream all the charactors that are in your dream are all you by default because they are created in your head and they refer to the conflicting differences of opinions that are within your self. In this way a song that you create is really no different than a dream.

So what does this mean to you? I don't know you'd have to ask yourself..... But what I think it means is that you should try thinking of writing songs that are not so traditional in manner with things as points of view and such. Points of view can be flipped around and explored and ultimately mutalated. The fact that you are worried about the point of view issue implies to me at least, that you have other points of views that you would like to explore. Why worry about conforming to traditional standards, explore the other points of view. The people who came up with the traditional methods of writing songs didn't understand what a song is in a scientific and psychological manner and now you do.
In my view that gives you the right to write songs anyway you please as long as you remember that what all your songs are really about is just YOU and whether you like it or not that is the truth!

- Evan

by the way your song is good, i like the language, also feel free to rip the two songs i posted apart, thats what they are there for.
 
I don't want to start a big long pointless discussion, BUT...

I think I might have misspoke (written) about not being happy with the point of view. There are other issues that the song is trying to obliquely talk about. I was mostly worried about the words sounding too trite or forced.

I think if you look at the words to the song, it is precisely and overtly from my point of view. The me and I in the song is most definitely me the songwriter.

I have personal theories about songwriting, that have very little to do with the theories of Nave. Personally, my songs are very conciously from what I see and observe. One technique I use is to take parts of me that I am not very proud of, and display them overtly.

This particular songs main thrust is that is supposed to be about people who protest and get media coverage for their own glory, rather than, or maybe not soley, the cause that they are espousing. Posers, gloryhounds, attention seeking youths, every kind of movement has them. I am writing from my personal experience in these matters, and from what I saw in other people doing the same thing.

What I was worried about in this song is the number of things I was bringing up by implication only, while keeping a straight narrative that anybody might relate to if they tried. That's what I think songwriting is about, for me.

The issues that I was trying to imply in this song:
- media coverage of protesters focussing on the freaky people rather than the issues
- being all sanctimonius and holier-than-thou in your youth, then abandoning it later
- that real political activists don't care if you get media coverage
- futility and burn-out that results from attempting to take head-on the powers that be
- the foolish fact that we were fighting the cruise missile so beloved of the US military
- the fact that I didn't become a realpolitical activist

As far as literary and story-telling techniques binding you - that's up to you. If you want to make personally meaningful non-linear non-narrative word poems, go ahead. It's hardly a new idea - I think Gertude Stein was doing what you are talking about 80 years ago. Or James Joyce, or countless reams of many poets or writers from the last two centuries. Go for it, nave.
 
Nave: interesting thoughts. I probably would have posted something like that as a new thread.

Eric: OK, I'm home with a fast connection and its now too late to work on my own stuff so..... some suggestions:

"Trying to expose their third-world operations" is rough as it is on the song, but it could fit. Try singing "try-ing-to-ex-pose-their" as eigth notes "third-world" as quarter notes, and "op-er-a-tions" as quarter notes again. It fits really well to my ears.

"Sit down have a cup of tea"- Start this phrase 1/8 note earler- so that "down" is on the beat. It rocks because it lilts with the beat if you add an "and" in there, see?

sit DOWN and HAVE a CUP of TEA.

Leaving the "and" out works just as well.

"And I don't even worry about nuclear war"- try shortening it to

"I don't even worry 'bout nuclear war"

In the rythm of the lyrics, you have room to say "1983" if you want, I think that would sound better than dragging out the "83"

Try "before all our hopes died". Flows a little better to my ears.

I hope that is the kind of feedback you were looking for otherwise...all my hope it gone. :D

Take care,
Chris
 
Yes Mr. Shaeffer, that is more what I had in mind!

And I thank you for taking the time to listen to the song.
I know it's pretty rough, especially the end bit, the riffing guitar at the end is a few measures out of place, and that's what you get for not editing carefully!

The vocal phrasings are VERY helpful, and all good suggestions. Am trying them out as I write this.

And I think it does help that you know of the type of people that I am writing about.

By the way, just because I haven't commented on your posts doesn't mean that I am not looking at them and evaluating your lyrics. I generally only post when I've got something useful to say. So far there hasn't been anything that I felt I needed to add to the other posts. But I do read most things on here!
 
the lyrics are good!
shout-out also to Chris and nave, you are very constructive reviewers and your good contributions also helps other songwriters.
I think i understood what nave means. A song is always from a personal view, since there is no absolut subjectiv human reporter. Even if you tell a story of a different person, it will be the story seen with your eyes.
 
Eric, I don't think your idea of song writing is all that different from mine. You state that you "consciously" write your songs and often use take off points that start with things about yourself that you are unhappy about. To consciously write a song is the point.

Eric, maybe you misunderstood what I said. What you said, is is exactly my point about song writing. My point is that people are always creating these songs and saying this one is about this or that with this charactor and this plot and so on and so on etc etc..... What I think some people perhaps not you, but some people need to realize is that songs are always about you: the person writing the song. For example you told me the topics about your song in your last post. Your song is less about those topics and more about your feelings of those topics. So, it's more about you then anything else. So, I think people should be "consciously" and "overtly" use them selves as the starting point of a song, as you said you are when writing a song.And if that is your way of writing songs I commend you in your efforts.

Other people should be more truthful to themselves in their songs instead of creating these fantasies that they are living out in songs. Instead of writing fantasies, people should get to the heart of the matter which is themselves. For example, a fantasy song could very well mean that the person wishes to escape from their own life or perhaps live more on the edge or maybe just be some body else. Whatever the reason maybe what these people should do is be conscious of the fact of WHY they are writing a fantasy song. Instead of writing a fantasy song maybe what they should write about is why they want to write a fantasy song. What is so wrong or dull in their own life that is compelling them to resort to a fantasy as some sort of escape. That is the real issue and that would make for a much more compelling story if you ask me.

And Eric maybe I concentrated too much on point of view in your song when that was just one thing that I was trying to say. I realize that people have been writing songs and poems that are more free form for a long time, what boggles my mind is that even after people come before you and blast through major traditional barriers, based on biases, that people always still seem to cling to tradition. Perhaps The reason is because they are scared that if they don't conform that they will not gain acceptence and so biases become a sort of saftey net. Biases are based on fear.

BTW, from my point of view no song is ever too complicated. People are complicated and no matter how you look at it, a song that has been overly simplified inorder to conform to traditional standards is not an authentic and accurate self expression. It does not do justice to the beauty and complexity of the human mind and condition to overly simply songs just so they conform to some 19th century idea of what a song is. I think that that is my major argument.

Struberg, Hello, you are correct the song is always from the song writers point of view. But the charactors within a song are more than that. They are charactors that the song writer is living vicariously through. They may be people they dislike or people they want to be. Even when writing a song about someone you dislike or hate overtly that person is you. There are theories and of course they are ONLY theories that say that the reason people hate other people is because the person they hate represents a part of themselves that they have difficulty reconciling with. In other words if you overtly hate someone the reason you hate them is because deep down inside they remind you of yourself. They are just theories but I think they hold a lot of water.


-Evan Keogh
 
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