the ultimate professional hip-hop studio

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CyanJaguar

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So, what differentiates a hip-hop studio from a regular studio?

I know that we wont have all that rock crap laying around the studio. Everything will be replaced by some hot keyboards (triton, motif etc)

Anyhow, what kind of setup and what kind of gear would you like to see in the ultimate professional hip-hop one stop shop?

I am doing this for a friend who is planning on opening one around here. He plans to go ProtoolsHD but everything else is up in the air.

I personally would go with a dual mac g5 with logic, but the dude is all about name and he says that everybody knows protools, so it is more of a marketing thing than actual workflow.

So, what kind of mics, preamps, monitors etc would you get if you had to set up a commercial hip-hop studio?
 
Gear for a top flight, for-hire, hip-hop studio

a real MC - just in case the cat on the mic sucks ass. I'm sayin, do your ears a favor. :rolleyes:

a real dj - you already know where I'm going with this, don't you?

a real producer - for obvious reasons.

a real engineer - even more obvious reasons...

a real fly bitch who's a funky-assed drummer.

an old, dope, cuban percussionist.

ps2 & x-box connected to the internet & gaming services courtesy of the house.

and make sure SOMEBODY can make sweet potato pie, pound cakes, coffee, and fresh juice drinks & shakes...

check your mailbox, i pm'ed you some recipes...


djfd
 
I got the pm... I thought you were joking about that. Why dont you post it here so that everybody can join the discussion. you make some extremely good points.
 
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I am curious about what differs in a hiphop studio. I have only ever been in a band oriented studio before. I would never go the pro-tools route but like everything in hiphop "brand name" is the status quo
 
altruist,

I am curious as to why you would not go protools.


I think the differences between a mainstream studio and a hip-hop studio would be

-no need for a big, 48-96 channel board in hip-hop. One will likely never use more than 12 inputs.

-no drum mics laying around
-no stereo xy or other setups.
-turntables (as dj flo mentioned)
-no "grand piano room"

etc

Come to think of it, if I had the money, I would go protools. The fact that there is no stress on the computer makes for a very pleasant recording experience.
 
Sorry, Cyan. All I can remember from my pm is something about turntables...

If I was opening a room like what you're talking about, "the ultimate professional hip-hop one stop shop," I'd certainly want to be able to track a small band - bass, guts, keys, 3-5 piece drums/percussion (or have an electronic kit there to play), uncle johnny on the spoons, mikey on the buckets, momma on the cowbell, and granddaddy on the comb (dipped in wax paper, of course) - that type of shit... I'd want the capability to do that. It ain't like you gotta upgrade mics & shit like software. I'd let that stuff sit until I needed it, and advertise that I'm perfectly capable of handling whatever comes down the pike (within reason) - since I'd be hiring my room(s) out. As a potential client, I'd be leery about dropping my weight on a room with only 12 damn inputs on the main board, too. The "why" part is easy...

Dude can't be an "ultimate...hip-hop one stop shop" & not be able to record a hip-hop band,I think. I wouldn't go that route unless I just couldn't afford the space, skill, or gear. Of course, then your friend's spot may be "for-hire," but not necessarily very "ultimate."

Now, if you only wanna be bothered with strictly electronic/computer-based music, that's another story...

What does he want to record, anyway?
Just cats with beatmachines/software, MCs, and DJs? Real instruments? If he ain't sure, then I can't call it either way. And, what dude workin' with on the budget tip?

I mean, I can't spend dude's money on here, but maybe other cats would be glad to if they knew how much...

I still think most of the questions your friend needs to answer are the same as anyone else opening a studio. I mean, I'd go for a room with dope acoustics, a dope mic or two (and at least 1 clean-assed pre), dope monitors, and a dusty s-950 as the only tools, before I spent my dough on a bunch of goodies and the room sounds like ass. I think the needs are mostly the same, just which percentage of the startup loot goes where is what's really different - more organic, or more electronic.

But... I ain't nobody's engineer or consultant, I just play records.

So don't forget the turntables...


djfd
 
I would suggest...

a couple of AVALON - vt737's

a few EMPIRICAL LABS - EL-8 Distressors

a MANLEY - Massivs Passive

an APOGEE AD/DA converter

an APOGEE - Big Ben

an AKAI - MPC 4000

a Techinics - 1200's

a Pionoeer - CDJ-1000 or 800

a Vestax - PMC-07Pro I.S.P

some ORTOFON - cartridges & needles

etc......

Plus, the things that Flo Dolo mentioned.
 
Dj, you make some valid points that I am sure that he has considered.

The return on investment for equiping the studio with stuff for a "musical hip-hop band" would not only be price prohibitive, but he might never make back his investment.

What he wants to record is what sells. Rap, some R&b, and way out stuff like outcasts. Mostly electronic and keyboard.

his budget is probably 25-30k. he wants to record unknown rappers on a budget, not already established names, but he wants to be able to give them the quality that they can achieve in a huge studio. I guess I am at fault because I told him it was completely achievable with his outlay( considering the nature of the material he wants to record)
 
SPINSTERWUN said:
I would suggest...

a couple of AVALON - vt737's

a few EMPIRICAL LABS - EL-8 Distressors

a MANLEY - Massivs Passive

an APOGEE AD/DA converter

an APOGEE - Big Ben

an AKAI - MPC 4000

a Techinics - 1200's

a Pionoeer - CDJ-1000 or 800

a Vestax - PMC-07Pro I.S.P

some ORTOFON - cartridges & needles

etc......

Plus, the things that Flo Dolo mentioned.
Click to expand...


Dude, nice taste. Here is what I would suggest.

At least one Avalon... almost mandatory for a commercial outfit

a nice, vintage compressor/limiter or two. The distressor would work too

Protools HD1 with the 192 i/o box....also almost mandatory

a couple of high end mics.. maybe AT 4060 and Neumann M149. Also throw in a hearty supply of SM 58s

Of course, turntables

Of course, an MPC

Throw in a ps2 and an xbox for entertainment value

we need some tight monitors for good value. Has to have Yamaha Ns10ms and another higher end pair (Meyer Hd-1s?

Some sound treatment for vocal booth and mixing room

one needs a madhouse pc (dual opterons with 8 gigs of ram)
 
Flo' Dolo said:
Now, if you only wanna be bothered with strictly electronic/computer-based music, that's another story...
Click to expand...

Funny... minus goodies for tracking live instruments (and a turntable or two or three or four or eight), the same questions remain.

No difference. Go figure. A decent recording studio is a decent recording studio is a decent recording studio is a decent recording studio...

I still wouldn't pay shit for a room with a 12 channel mixer. As I look to my left, my RS got 11 tracks of sounds & cuts rolling already. No vocals, no vocal overdubs, no nothing. And yeah, it's strictly hip-hop this Thursday night. Even a blown-out 4000 would have 8 outs plus the 2 mains. I'd certainly want to be able to track everything offa there (plus a wave of cuts?) in one pass if I was paying for your room.

"What he wants to record is what sells."

I'd wanna record whatever cats had the loot to pay for my time. Hopefully, they'd have a clue about whatever they want so I wouldn't be getting tapped for what turns into me adding all the production sweetening to their shit. So maybe the setup isn't to be just for-hire? Also for in-house stuff? If so, then do the same rules apply with regard to shit like using PT because of it's eye-candy factor & wide use among commercial facilities? 1 card system...

Can you even have a decent PT system within dude's budget? Just barely, I think. Add more cards as you can afford/your clients demand?

Certainly not, however, if you're gonna buy other shit - and if it has names like manley, apogee, and all that other shit. Somebody's gonna come up short.

Bet the turntables would be the first to go... then the sound treatment...

-->but i'd get rid of the ns10s(?!?) first.


good luck.

djfd
 
imma start saving for SPIN's list

hope to get there in three to five years :D
 
flo, please keep it coming. This is nice. I hope you are not upset or anything, as this is just a what if situation.

I honestly dont even see the need for a mixer in a protools hip-hop studio. All the mixing gets done either at the source or in the computer.

I think he can get by with having 24 inputs in his studio.

again, the ns10ms will serve no practical purpose except that people are used to seeing them and have come to expect them.

A decent recording studio is a decent recording studio, but you cant honestly say that no differences exist. In hip-hop, would you have to float the tracking room? no.

ok, say you had 30k for a hip-hop studio. What would your list look like? remember that you can buy somethings used.
 
ultimate? who knows

Cyan,
I've had a great time with an Akai sampler/sound module. (2000XL)
From my experience, the way of writing with an MPC and then recording in Pro Tools is not much different than writing with MIDI in Logic Audio. Its like two different languages, you just have to get to know'em. The more you practice, the more you will know what a situation calls for. Keep writing. Peace
Warren
 
CyanJaguar said:

flo, please keep it coming. This is nice. I hope you are not upset or anything, as this is just a what if situation.
Click to expand...

Not upset. Sorry if I came off like that.

CyanJaguar said:

A decent recording studio is a decent recording studio, but you cant honestly say that no differences exist. In hip-hop, would you have to float the tracking room? no.
Click to expand...

Well, in this case, no differences exist. You definately gotta address the same issues when constructing a studio. The same is true for gear give or take a bell, whistle, flavor, or fetish, I'd guess.

I don't think the more genre-specific tools you've got in mind are nearly as crucial as the shit every room needs - good sound treatment, good signal processing, good mics & pres, quiet signal paths, (more) grafitti on the walls, and groupies who only speak when spoken to... Seriously, most important is probably the level of quality vs. the flavor of quality. The differences you're talking about ain't really "differences," just a lil' different flavor, I think...

Prolly all types of gearlust lists and "what should I buy" shits all over the place here.
I know, I know, you already know.
;)


dippin' out...


djfd
 
just something you might want to consider

clients want stuff to not only sound good, but unfortunatly, they want it to look good too. I only run a 24 channel board. I have had many people come in and be like, o, thats a small mixer! They expect two people to be able to sit there comfortably.

And finding a way to sync it with a recorder might be good too. like a hard disc recorder so you can change levels after the recording is done. you know, like in the movies!

Another thing, entertainment is important. You will get a lot of people to come back if they are comfortable.
 
notbradsohner said:
just something you might want to consider

clients want stuff to not only sound good, but unfortunatly, they want it to look good too. I only run a 24 channel board. I have had many people come in and be like, o, thats a small mixer! They expect two people to be able to sit there comfortably.

And finding a way to sync it with a recorder might be good too. like a hard disc recorder so you can change levels after the recording is done. you know, like in the movies!

Another thing, entertainment is important. You will get a lot of people to come back if they are comfortable.
Click to expand...

thanks for the input. You make some good points that I had not even thought about.
 
I have a few comments....

1. I agree with Flo Dolo. I don't think that you'll be able to put together a ProTools system for under the 20k - 30k budget (especially if you want to purchase anything else in the studio).

2. I agree with notbradsohner. People want to see all the bells, whistles, and faders. Plus, you have to have what the other studios have (remember that most of your clients are pedestrian minded individuals).

3. Once again, I agree with Flo' Dolo. You can get rid of the Yamaha NS-10's. Yes, I understand that most of the older big studios have them, but for what you'll be doing in Hip-Hop you will only need them for small use/comparisons.

4. You might be able to put together a PC based studio for under 30K. I'm not sure but lets do a brief list (others can add to the list, because I'm sure I'll forget a few things......

$2,500 - dual P4 3.2ghz w/HT, 1g RAM, DUAL 80g HD
$1,600 - dual SONY video monitors
$5,300 - (32 tracks) TASCAM FE-1844 + 3 PE-8's
$3,700 - GENELEC 1031A's
$1,000 - MACKIE HR-624's
$0,000 - Yamaha NS10's (you already have these)
$1,000 - MOTU 2408 mk3 (for additional & multiple types of inputs)
$1,500 - Argosy console w/ flybridge
$3,000 - AKAI MPC 4000
$2,400 - ROLAND Fantom keyboard
$1,000 - CD-duplicator 6 bay
$2,000 - Technics 1200 (1) Numark TTX-1 (1) Vestax PMC 07-Pro

You're at $24,000.

You still need.....
outboard gear
mics
headphones
software
room treatment
power conditioning
cables
couches
video games
video consoles
soda machine
refrigerator
office computer
chairs
insurance

spin
 
If you go ProTools you'll be at a figure that is three times that price (probably $66K) with just 24 tracks (and you still need to get all of the extra stuff).
 
hi Spinsterwun,

Thanks for the breakdown. I know that took quite a bit of effort.

As it is panning out , The owner has been convinced that it will take more than 30 k. Closer to 50k, but he is somewhat determined to start with what he has.

This is how I broke it down. I adviced to get used, as this will result in a higher percentage recovered should he ever need to liquidate the studio. Some things like a computer have to be bought new though.

Computing

$ 3,000 - dual AMD opteron with 4 gigs + of ram and 160 gig scsi
$ 1,000 - Dual 19 flat screen displays (or quad 19 inch crt)

Recording System
$ 5,000 - protools HD1 system off ebay
$ 1,500 - Digidesign 96 i/o off ebay
$ 1,500 - Digidesign 96i i/o off ebay for a total of 24 analog inputs

Monitoring
$ 2,500 Dynaudio Bm15a system used. Powered,no amp needed
$ 600 Yamaha Ns10ms
$ 200 Amp for ns 10 ms

Mics
$ 2,500 Neumann M149 used
$ 400 Akg c414b/uls ebay
$ 800 Audio technica 4060 ebay

Rack
$ 1,600 Avalon vt-737 ebay
$ 2,000 True Audio Precision 8 (8 channel pre) ebay
$ 3,000 Cranesong stc8 eight channel compressor/limiter ebay

Others
$ 1,000 Studio furniture
$ 1,000 other furniture
$ 1,000 sound treatment

Sounds
$ 1,000 Korg triton le
$ 700 rolan xv5050

There is $30,300 spent for an almost complete studio. Of course, misc like cables, mic stands, carpentry, rent, and insurance have not been taken care of, but he is close. He could probably open up shop for $35,000. Of course, he would have to do things like effects (reverb) in the computer starting out) Let me know your thoughts
 
SPINSTERWUN said:


$2,500 - dual P4 3.2ghz w/HT, 1g RAM, DUAL 80g HD


spin
Click to expand...


What does HT mean?

Also, we were looking at the Argosy consoles you mentioned and they look really good. Much better and much more functional than the Omnirax furniture.

Finally, Since computing power is an expense, One does not need to have the latest. You can save money by going with a dual pentium as you mentioned as it will have to be upgraded soon anyway.

I think we'll go with the dual 19 inch crts and save about 600, which can be used for something more important like cables.
 
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