The Subtle Evil of iToons (well, not subtle).

[rayc]

I watched a debate this afternoon about piracy & creative copyright.
One of the threads of arguments was very interesting.
I'll summarize:
Crapple makes devices and some software to use on those devices.
Crapple have iToons which has become ubiquitous and is best operated form a Crapple device.
iToons is now very popular & has become a default place to market music.
Crapple set the price ($0.99 per song or less).
One MUST accept Crapples maximum prices to list on iToons.
Crapple takes 30% of that $0.99.
Crapple dictates the options for music compression/audio quality.
Crapple makes it money from the devices - not the music.
Crapple has forced down the price of the fruits of creatives processes to enable it to maximize market share in the legal digital download world therefore selling more units of its devices to play the music.
Crapple doesn't put any money into music, music development, etc etc. It puts its money into device development.
Crapple is exploiting the creators of the music, as a monopoly always does, and creating an expectation/understanding in the music buying public that a) music should be cheap, b) music is disposable because it is cheap & c) the devices to play the chep & disposable music are the valuable items.
If this business model was carried out buy a supermarket chain or similar that business would be investigated for price fixing, monopoly/market domination and anti-competitive behaviour.
However, because it's music & it's Crapple the company hasn't been.
You've been used, again.
Interesting argument.
I can't refute it.

 

[TheBones]

Very interesting points. As an Apple user myself, when you put it like that, it looks pretty shady. I always assumed that when it came to the bigger artists or companies etc. apple didn't get the 30% like it does for joe schmoe's submission through tuncore. I can't believe big names with huge established fan bases are willing to give up 30% of their iTunes sales. Stranger things have happened i suppose. Where did you see the debate?

 

[rayc]

The debate was part of a series called Big Ideas on the State Television ABC in Australia.
Interestingly the speaker was anti piracy and pro copyright but was aware of the abuses Big Business can commit using the legislation.
As to how much iToonz takes from Big Names - I don't know & I'm sure the bigger they are the more negotiable the situation becomes due to the mutual beneficial, (at least partially), parasitic nature of the relationship.

 

[XploZiveToyz]

They just lost a big lawsuit here in the states for price fixing e-books.

 

[c7sus]

The RIAA is working on this problem too.

I heard an interview with Paul Williams a few months back talking about how royalties for songwriters have evaporated in the wake of digital audio.

It's not a problem confined to Apple. Pandora and other on-demand streaming services are managing to avoid royalties too.

 

[rayc]

Yamazon is doing essentially the same thing with eBooks & the Krindle reader. Flogging off books on the cheap to facilitate the sale of the reader whilst fleecing the author & publisher.

 

[VomitHatSteve]

Hmmm... Interesting idea.
On the other hand, I think that $1 is about the upper end of a reasonable price for an mp3.
Prior to mp3s, the record labels and their distributors had the monopoly on music and they set the price at the very consumer-unfriendly $20 for the whole CD regardless of how many of the songs you wanted.

 

[c7sus]

Yamazon is doing essentially the same thing with eBooks & the Krindle reader. Flogging off books on the cheap to facilitate the sale of the reader whilst fleecing the author & publisher.

France is dealing with this right now. They are trying to keep Amazon from killing their independent booksellers. They have a law that says you cannot discount a book by more than 5%.

 

[cafehonda]

A prime example of "I don't mind when you get what you deserve but I hate it when I get what you deserve." I have and will continue to hate Crapple products , services and philosophy.

 

[DM60]

A prime example of "I don't mind when you get what you deserve but I hate it when I get what you deserve." I have and will continue to hate Crapple products , services and philosophy.

Apple may change one day, but this has been their MO for as long as I have encountered them and that is at least 25 years. When they use to be all proprietary with their hardware, you could not buy any hardware for your computer unless you were an authorized Apple reseller. So, Hard Drives, upgrade cards could only be purchased by an Apple Reseller. The reseller wouldn't sell it to you, unless they did the work for you.

Apple has always predatory, the only reason they had gotten away with it was they were so small, nobody cared (verses MS which was much more open, in comparison, but huge). Now Apple is a major player, everyone takes notice. Never liked Jobs, never liked the company and now people are finding out what kind of company Apple really is. People are really going to flip when they realize on the next technology change, Apple doesn't do legacy support.

 

[Steenamaroo]

People are really going to flip when they realize on the next technology change, Apple doesn't do legacy support.

Hasn't that already happened twice?

 

[DM60]

Hasn't that already happened twice?

I will be honest, I have no idea. Their latest OS updates seem to bring everything forward pretty good. Except a couple of versions back, they would support older graphic cards. So, I guess there have been no major hardware changes. Maybe firewire support will be on the chopping block.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Their latest OS updates seem to bring everything forward pretty good.

Oooh, whaddya see?
I'm struggling to spot anything worth while, but maybe the changes are in areas I don't use.

Maybe firewire support will be on the chopping block.

I doubt it. Thunderbolt seems to be their future and it can carries firewire.

Have to admit, they were never scared to just move on and leave people behind.
Even down to little things like dropping CD/DVD from their new lines. A LOT of people don't like stuff like that.

 

[rayc]

I'm not suggesting that music publishers & record companies were doing anyone any favours prior to iToonz; merely that Crapples avarice outstrips them.
99c for a MP3 track? - Well, I wouldn't know as I've only bought 1 download MP3 album - & that was several years ago.
After thaht experience I, personally, wouldn't pay for such a low quality product as an MP3 - particularly at the rip rates employed by Crapple & similar mobs.

 

[DM60]

I doubt it. Thunderbolt seems to be their future and it can carries firewire.

Have to admit, they were never scared to just move on and leave people behind.
Even down to little things like dropping CD/DVD from their new lines. A LOT of people don't like stuff like that.

I am surprised that they were thinking through that for Firewire. You're right, when it was time to move on, it was time to move on. In some ways, that is why Apple has the reputation of being stable. MS would allow some pretty old stuff, it would crash an people would be really pissed (See Vista).

At this point, Apple is doing what Google and Amazon is doing, capturing the eco system. Get you all the way, from hardware to purchasing. MS tried that (late 90's, early 2000's) and they were slapped with monopoly lawsuit. I wonder what changed?

 

[polarity]

Ehh this argument seems pretty 1 sided. It is this simple though, Apple is not the only provider. You can buy you music from anywhere, if you choose to use iTunes, then you choose to play by their rules. The reason they have these rules can vary I'm sure depending on what part. Hardware is simple enough, ever wonder why your PC crashes all the time? Microsoft has to write their OS to work with any piece of hardware that anyone has created or will create and do it simply. It's a great way to become the standard, make sure you support everything. Apple says you get what we damn well give you if you want our product.

I don't see the problem, that's like going out and picking 1 brand of pickle. Then bitching because this brand of pickle uses kosher salt and you don't like kosher salt.. Who cares there are 500 other types of pickle, just get a different one. No one is forcing you to sell your music on itunes or buy it there.

 

[DM60]

Ehh this argument seems pretty 1 sided. It is this simple though, Apple is not the only provider. You can buy you music from anywhere, if you choose to use iTunes, then you choose to play by their rules. The reason they have these rules can vary I'm sure depending on what part. Hardware is simple enough, ever wonder why your PC crashes all the time? Microsoft has to write their OS to work with any piece of hardware that anyone has created or will create and do it simply. It's a great way to become the standard, make sure you support everything. Apple says you get what we damn well give you if you want our product.

I don't see the problem, that's like going out and picking 1 brand of pickle. Then bitching because this brand of pickle uses kosher salt and you don't like kosher salt.. Who cares there are 500 other types of pickle, just get a different one. No one is forcing you to sell your music on itunes or buy it there.

I would argue the difference is, iTunes controls what you purchase and if you are not savvy, very hard to get your stuff out of iTunes. Whereas, other sell you MP3s. Those are easier to port from one system to another. I see that as one of the major differences.

But, you're correct. No one forcing anyone to use it.

 

[polarity]

True but itunes doesn't claim to sell you mp3s. They sell you their whole system. So again it's just knowing what you are buying before you buy it.

 

[MrWrenchey]

ever wonder why your PC crashes all the time? Microsoft has to write their OS to work with any piece of hardware that anyone has created or will create and do it simply.

I don't want to turn this into a Mac vs. PC debate, but my PC doesn't crash at all because I spent $1,000 on hardware for top notch pieces. I've owned it for almost 4 years now and it's still a great machine that hasn't BSoD'd or had any issues with it that everyone I know complains about (including viruses, and I just use Avast free).

There are two reasons Apple's stuff is stable. One IS that they write their OS for a very specific hardware set, but honestly, it's mostly because of the solid hardware components they use (in their Mac Pros, it's usually server grade equipment).

Most of the people I see complaining about crashes are the ones buying $300 desktops from some low level PC manu and then they buy something that's almost 10x the price and say, "wow, this Mac is so fast and doesn't crash! Macs are better!" No, you've just paid more for better components.

But anyhoo, back on topic. xD

After thaht experience I, personally, wouldn't pay for such a low quality product as an MP3 - particularly at the rip rates employed by Crapple & similar mobs.

As much as I hate Apple as well (and I only buy physical copies), over the past several years, they've finally brought up their bit rates to around 256kbps at a Variable Bit Rate, so to the majority of people, it's almost indistinguishable from CD quality nowadays. I'd still never buy from iTunes because I always buy a whole CD, so I figure I'd get the physical thing instead of a lower bit rate download.

 

[polarity]

but my PC doesn't crash at all because I spent $1,000 on hardware for top notch pieces. I've owned it for almost 4 years now and it's still a great machine that hasn't BSoD'd or had any issues with it that everyone I know complains about (including viruses, and I just use Avast free).

You are one of the very few. And yes you need hardware components (in apple or PC) that are compatible and work well together.

I have a mac, and an iphone. I'm still a PC guy, I prefer windows. I am an IT guy and it keeps me working. I just think the apple bashing gets pretty old. No one forces you to use their products, so why does it matter what rules they are setting for them?